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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: GregFL on September 18, 2006, 12:37:50 AM

Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 18, 2006, 12:37:50 AM
?   We admit we are powerless over drugs.

?   We come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity.

?   We admit to God, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

?   We make a fearless and searching moral inventory of ourselves.

?   We make direct amends to those we have harmed except where it would hurt them.

?   We seek through prayer and medication to improve our conscious contact with God as we understand him.

?   Having received the gift of awareness, we practice these principles in all our daily affairs, and carry this message to all those we can help.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2006, 08:03:11 AM
"prayer and medication" - intentional or freudian?
G
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2006, 08:12:35 AM
or just another "SLIP"
Title: Re: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2006, 08:42:28 AM
Quote from: ""GregFL""
?   We admit we are powerless over drugs.

?   We come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity.

?   We admit to God, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

?   We make a fearless and searching moral inventory of ourselves.

?   We make direct amends to those we have harmed except where it would hurt them.

?   We seek through prayer and medication to improve our conscious contact with God as we understand him.

?   Having received the gift of awareness, we practice these principles in all our daily affairs, and carry this message to all those we can help.



hahaha, "medication"....I wish I coulda got some meds at straight.  Shit, it woulda been mucho fun.
Title: Make direct amends to those we hurt ....
Post by: Stripe on September 19, 2006, 10:53:09 AM
I especially like the way this "step" was twisted and manipulated so that we could cut away all those persons from our lives who, in the Seed's twisted philosophy, had somehow managed to lead us down the path where we end up at the seed.  I serously doubt anyone was physically held down and forced to consume drugs or adopt the fearsome druggie attitude.  Perhaps that are some who were victims of abuse, but by and large, that was not the general experience.  Meanwhile, at the Seed, people  actually were held down and forced to adopt the seed attitude.  

I just think it's really weird how we could all stand up and recite this shit and yet be such hurtful, vengeful people to everyone we knew BEFORE The Seed.  That was perfectly okay and was reinforced by the group.  God, I was such an asshole when I was in the Seed.      

Who out there EVER went back an apologized to their old friends for anything you ever did to them before you were in The Seed while you were on the program?  I never did.  I'll bet there's very few who did - afterall, that would mean, god forbid, having to actually speak to your old friends.  

I remember having this dilemma very well and I believe I was able to convice myself not to make the amends - I think I knew that would be too dangerous, not in terms of my "sobriety" but in terms of being stoodup and yelled at for having contact with druggies.  

Yeah, as if you would NOT have been stood up in group for going back to your old friends and saying "I'm sorry I was an asshole to you when I did ....  "  I can see that (c)rap running over the poor innocent kid who made that admission like a big fucking tank.  

Does anyone ever recall someone actually making a public admission about making amends to old friends during one of these rule raps? What was the result?  What was the group response?  Rap leader response?

What I recall most about this "STEP" was the emphasis on NOT making amends because it would be hurtful or would not be safe for my "straightness," and (continuing the justifications) I had to put myself first and be selfish and do the right thing for myself and then the right things would happen and the world would be better because my old druggie friends would see I was living a better life and then they would want a better life, too and they would come to The Seed and blah, blah, blah.  

We told each other in the rap lingo that it would be hurtful to "them" and ourselves, but in reality, I think it would have been much more hurtful to my psyche to experience the rage of the group for making the contact in the first place.  That's what guided me when I was navigating the steps.  What a fucking mental mine field.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 19, 2006, 11:18:00 AM
haha...medication.

 I was wondering if anyone else would notice that.  I actually copied and pasted this from the article Stripe submitted from The Orlando Sentinel, and the error was theirs.  

Stripe, good post. I agree.  The steps were held up as some holy savior, yet we just twisted them to mean what Art wanted them to mean.  "god"= the group.  "moral inventory"=written daily confessionals.  "prayer and meditiation"=Raps. "carry the message" =telling on all your friends ie; recruiting for the cult.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: NOT12NOW on September 20, 2006, 09:33:27 AM
Quote from: ""Stripe""
What I recall most about this "STEP" was the emphasis on NOT making amends because it would be hurtful or would not be safe for my "straightness," and (continuing the justifications) I had to put myself first and be selfish and do the right thing for myself and then the right things would happen and the world would be better because my old druggie friends would see I was living a better life and then they would want a better life, too and they would come to The Seed and blah, blah, blah.
 

That's how I remember it Stripe.  
I did apologizing to some kids, but they were "straight" kids with whom I shared a school building, not old friends. Often after I apologized to these kids they would want to be friendly, eat lunch with me, hang out; but the same kids I ridiculed for being uncool before the seed were never straight enough after I was in the seed.  So generally I made amends for treating some poor kid badly and then after a week or two of friendly behavior panicked and hurt them again with the, I am sorry I can't be your friend unless you go to the seed speech.

I was really struck by the prayer and meditation/medication rule.
Wow, how they twisted that one.  Now, looking back, I can't believe anyone bought raps as being prayer and meditation. We were allowed no internal life ever; prayer and meditation depends on internal life; a quiet dropping deeply into one's self is required for both, observing ones inner thoughts and feelings without judgment or letting the outside world slip away and seeking guidance from inside.   Ha, if I had ever truly prayed in-group I can only imagine I would have been told to get out of my head pronto.   If I had insisted I was praying. I would have been dead meat
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 20, 2006, 11:58:10 AM
I was a 14 year old child.  The only 'amends'  I could come up with is I went with my father to the middle school I had just graduated from, in my seed t-shirt, and returned two books that I had neglected to return.  


What a farce...
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 20, 2006, 12:01:50 PM
Yep 'not12',  if you had actually prayed or meditated during the newcomer stage, you would likely have been stood up and screamed at by your 'peers'.

As far as being into trouble for 'getting into your head', how orwellian is that?  Your not allowed to have any thought that doesn't comport with what they think you are supposed to think, your not allowed to let your mind drift off, daydream...nothing.  Just pay attention, comform your thoughts, act exactly as everyone else  and be a good little seedling.


...Or pay the consequences...
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on September 20, 2006, 12:13:15 PM
Shit, boy... It wasn't easy getting you damned druggies to stay focused; a few bad apples spoiled it for the bunch so we had to get tough! And remember, YOU put yourself there to begin with! Think about THAT the next time you try to blame your higher power.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 20, 2006, 01:56:20 PM
Easy Doctor, we were before even your time!


hehe
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Stripe on September 20, 2006, 02:15:43 PM
True that, parody of Dr. Miller Newton.  True that.

However, now that I am an uncontrollable adult and am no longer susceptible to the bastardized lies concerning the existence of any alleged higher powers, I find that I am unable to refrain from telling them all to focus on this:

                                ::both::
Title: seven steps
Post by: rossmddn on September 26, 2006, 11:42:41 PM
hey yall, it's not more nor less than re-education, in the mao-ist/lenin-ist style. let's just abandon critical thinking, and become comfortable true believers.. let us abandon freedom and dignity, and become hive-dwellers.. let us take for our selves the theology of the truly righteous, that we may go forth, and be as dim bulbs in the land of caana, henceforth, shall we be known as the people of hunh? and what?
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Antigen on September 27, 2006, 12:02:40 AM
Thus spake the great and terrible FSM. All hail the FSM! Praise be, Lordy come take me home, praise be!
 :nworthy:
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Stripe on September 27, 2006, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: ""Bad Trip""
Thus spake the great and terrible FSM. All hail the FSM! Praise be, Lordy come take me home, praise be!
 :nworthy:



Rejecting the signs and having wandered aimlessly for the past 35 years, and further reflecting upon my rush to judgment above ( ::both:: ) I find that I feel left out again.  Left Behind, as it were (la hehehehe) and I want to hail the FSM, too. But I don't know what that is.  

Can anyone give me some awareness?  Because right now, I'm feeling like I could end up deadinsaneorinjail if I don't get what I need from this group.    :wink:

Seriously, what's FSM?  What did I miss?
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Antigen on September 27, 2006, 02:43:31 PM
Prepare to be touched by his noodly appendages!
http://www.venganza.org/ (http://www.venganza.org/)
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Stripe on September 27, 2006, 07:15:08 PM
I feel so much better now, more aware and stuff... Thank you.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Antigen on September 27, 2006, 08:19:06 PM
Aye, matey!
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2006, 03:10:29 AM
I don't really see the problem with the steps. I have been reading you for days because the seed truly fucked me up almost 30 years ago. I'm looking for the answer to exactly how they fucked me up.
These are a few things I have come up with. First and formost they said they loved me and would always be there and one morning I came in and they said we will be gone in two hours. GONE!! For two years I had nothing else but them.  So 30 years of committment issues, NO ONE means it when they say they will always be there. So now I am tired of typing if you want to know the others let me know. WHY AM I STILL THINKING ABOUT THIS 30 YEARS LATER??
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2006, 03:15:21 AM
I have tried to register twice and can't can anyone help
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2006, 03:16:03 AM
I am both Adc4x and Andrea
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: NOT12NOW on September 28, 2006, 10:30:19 AM
I
Quote from: ""Guest""
First and formost they said they loved me and would always be there and one morning I came in and they said we will be gone in two hours. GONE!! For two years I had nothing else but them.  So 30 years of committment issues, NO ONE means it when they say they will always be there. So now I am tired of typing if you want to know the others let me know. WHY AM I STILL THINKING ABOUT THIS 30 YEARS LATER??


I understand that, despite the fact, that for me the seed leaving town was nothing but a great relief.  Still its not hard to understand that for those of you who made friends and a life in the seed that their sudden, and heartlessly executed retreat would deeply damage your trust in love and commitment.  Of course your still thinking about it 30 years later you were traumatized.  I hated every minute I was in that place and I still think about, have nightmares about it even, 30 years later so if there if that's weird--you've got company.

And about the seven steps conversation.  You don't have to agree with what anyone says here to be a welcome participant.  Just because we were all in the seed doesn't mean we all had the same experience.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2006, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I have tried to register twice and can't can anyone help


What is the problem?  You just need to write down your username and password and you should be able to log in with no problem.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2006, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am both Adc4x and Andrea


Pick one and run with it.

 :lol:

Welcome to the forum!
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Antigen on September 29, 2006, 12:36:47 AM
There's another thread similar to this one in the Straight Vets forum titled who else struggles. If I read it right, that one came from somebody who went through Elan and it seems like most of the native SV ppl missed that cause everything else is about the same.

Been thinking about this just lately, though; how to explain it to myself and those nearest and dearest to me. Till a few years ago, I never kept in touch with anyone from the Program, even family. Even my best childhood friend and I sort of drifted apart pretty soon after all of that. So I've always had a different perspective on things than the people around me. That makes life hard sometimes.

When Ft. Lauderdale PD and the tourist commission, or whomever planned it, cordoned off the beach and instituted random bag searches on pedestrians, it scared the living shit out of me. Didn't seem to bother anyone around me, and that scared me more. This was Independence Day of, I think, `96. When my kids started coming home from school with DARE and Peer Counseling material, that gave me the creeps. Daytime talk shows remind me of group. They don't remind anyone else of group; naturally enough because no one around me was there. When ATF opened fire on the Waco compound, I was the only one in the office not glued to the tv and cheering like the home team just made the winning fucking touch down. I rained on that parade, too, reminding everyone that there were kids in that place. That may have cost me some popularity around the office, but fuck em!

People who have never had so much reason to think so much about these things find this sort of behavior odd and disquieting. Seems like paranoia to them cause look, see?, no one else is worried. Everyone's having a good time and it only takes a few minutes to show the officer that you have nothing to hide. What the hell's the problem, right? Paranoia or prescience?**

We were exposed to a potent slice of the prison without walls experiments. People seem to sort themselves into to major groups based on favorite coping mechanism; they either develop a strong aversion and keen sensitivity to Program elements and tactics or they go the other way, plug their ears and chant "lalalala" * and pretend none of this is actually happening. Today? Check out the front page of Buzzflash.

"The Statue of Liberty Hangs Its Head in Shame: Congress Passes Law Giving Bush, Whose Actions Have Increased the Number of Terrorists and the Threat of Terrorism, Torquemada Torture Powers, the Right to Suspend Habeas Corpus, the Right to Declare Anyone -- Even Americans Enemy Combatants -- Who Could be Tortured And is Granted Retroactive Immunity from War Crimes. This May be the Fall of the Republic." http://buzzflash.com/ (http://buzzflash.com/)

Regardless of what you may think about their editorial kant, the statement is factually true. And, again, most of the people around me don't really have a problem with it. But then none of the people around me were held captive and tortured for two years by the Büsh family fundraising champion, Mel Sembler.

* Acually, they don't usually chant "lalalala". Usually, they chant "you're a druggie, you're a druggie, you're a druggie!" Failing that, they go take another Prozac and plot and scheme new and interesting ways to "help" the people around them. That's why I don't hang out w/ the fuckers. They're dangerous!

** Words change. All the time, they do, which is how we eventually develop distinct languages and coloqialisms. That's fine. But I was sad to see that prescience--the ability and habit of extrapolation--has come to be used as a synonym for divination. I guess common sense has become such a rare comodity it seems like magic anymore. I give up on people. I'm looking for a pack of dogs that will have me.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: NOT12NOW on September 30, 2006, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
Daytime talk shows remind me of group.


My god! I can't believe I never made that connection before those programs could have been created by someone who had been though one of these fucking programs; maybe they were.  
The formate is identical.  They get some sucker to state something-- "I like the way I dress I look sexy.  I don't care what anyone else says."  Then they open it up to the audience to call them nasty things till they recant and agree to a make over.
I've always said that when our culture falls historians are going to point to the popularity of those shows as evidence of our crumbling social structure.  The way throwing christians to the lions is understood as a evidence of the crumbling  roman empire.

I used to get really anxious before staff meetings at work.  It took me years to figure out that it was because my moody boss made the experience like group for me.  Mostly the meetings were dull but every few weeks she would get in a bunch about something and wail on us.  Just like group, long periods of boredom punctuated by sudden attacks.  For months I was mystified by my anxiety,  everyone else thought she could be a royal bitch but I was the only one crying before staff meetings.  When I made the connection that the way I felt in staff meetings, was the way I felt in group my feelings made sense.  Her explosions were a pain in the ass to my co-workers, but to me it was a trip back to the front row.

One last thing, I  heard a radio story in the last year about DARE.  According to this report there was never any evidence that this program kept anyone off drugs and yet it continued to be funded regardless of the lack of proof that it worked.  I don't remember it there was a study that showed it didn't work or if there was never any evaluation of the programs success at all.  

can't say it suprised me.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Stripe on October 04, 2006, 05:37:01 PM
Hey Not 12,

Aren't you glad you have finally figured out where all that   weirdness came from?  I had experiences very similar to what you describe.  For so many years I really believed what happened to me there was "right" and I searched and search trying to understand why I just wasn't able to live "the seed life."  That's the fallicy of this whole addiction model: if you are not an addict, it's a lifestyle choice that'll make you crazy.  I mean who in their right mind would choose to act like a crazy-person if they didn't have to?  

I hope that in the interim, between 12 and now, you have had some happy times where you were free of the negative aspects of theseed.  The Seed program(ming) really can mess up a persons psyche.  And personally, I think the effects are even worse for kids who were essentially trouble-free to begin with.

Our culture is becoming harsh and cruel and it seems like most folks beat each other out of the way to get on the current bandwagon.  Right now, it's the drug war and breaking the spirits of kids - or WMDs, or some other lie-du-jour.  Our best defense against all this insanity is to tell the truth. It's not easy or comfortable, but that is what is required.  Truth.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on October 04, 2006, 08:04:44 PM
Quote from: ""Stripe""

I hope that in the interim, between 12 and now, you have had some happy times where you were free of the negative aspects of theseed.  The Seed program(ming) really can mess up a persons psyche.  And personally, I think the effects are even worse for kids who were essentially trouble-free to begin with.

.


I agree Stripe, but I would go even a step further.  People who were 'trouble' also didn't need the extreme treatment they received at the seed.

I know I was anything but an angel.  Hell, I still got a little hellion in me.  However, I spent years trying to shed the baggage the seed attached to my ego.

Maybe if I was a junkie selling my body for my next fix, I could justify some similar life changing event like the seed.  Maybe.  However, my situation simply didn't warrant being locked up in a behavior modification camp, especially one with the extreme techniques and cultic ideology  like the seed.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2006, 01:19:15 AM
How about just a PCP addict who couldnt feel her face and who th seed temporaily saved me from myself and changed my life.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on October 05, 2006, 08:51:44 AM
How about it?  I don't suppose I can judge your situation very good from where I sit.

However, I do have a question?  PCP addict?  I do remember PCP back in the day, and I don't remember it as being an addictive substance.  Certainly dangerous in the forms it was sold back then, but addictive?

So these are my questions.  How old were you when you kicked the addiction?  How long did you use this substance before coming addicted?  At what age did you start? How many times a day did you take this substance?   What was the cost of the substance on a daily basis, and how did you get the money? Where did you physically withdraw?  What were the withdrawal symptoms?  What delivery method did you use to injest the substance?

The alternative of course, is that you are misusing the word addiction.
Title: The Seven Steps
Post by: GregFL on October 05, 2006, 08:02:55 PM