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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: katfish on April 29, 2005, 08:35:00 PM

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on April 29, 2005, 08:35:00 PM
I hear Colleen likes to check up on these posts and even received a phone call from her several years back when my posting where much more frequent and descriptive of my experiences at MMS on the strugglingteens.com forum  In anycase, this is directed at her, in part.

Hi Colleen, I received your phone call and returned it, but never heard back.  I expect after reviewing my many posts you have a pretty substantive understanding what my position is on MMS.  In a nutshell, I found it an abusive institution, and to address you directly, I too found you to be abusive and at best, passive enough to allow your husband, John Mercer and Mike Finn, especially to become meglomaniacs  and run young women ragged to the point of emotional melt down.  Only to secure redevelopment according to Mercer and Finns ideals.  Strange association to some perhaps, but the heirarchical structure, domination, intimidation, isolation, all is, IMHO, contrary to growth and positive change.  The change sought seems to grow only out of an individuals own volition, not forceful change that occurs at MMS.  Words become meaningless and regurgitation ensues.  Minds filled with Mercer-isms.  Viola, her's your automotran formerly known as your daughter.  Until of course the real world is presented and does not fit into the picture Mercer and Finn taught you, taught me, to mimic.  And then everything falls apart, Colleen.  And you think you're doing  good to those girls who feel this way?  The ends justify the means, perhaps you think, but if only you  all of the ends, not just the one who say 'it worked!".
I would hope that one day soon the sate of MT recognizes the need for regulation of this 60 billion dollar a year industry- this is big business now- as a society we fail our children and send 'em away for others even less qualified to deal with them.  At 150,000/year/child at MMS- that's what, 1.5 million for 10 kids, you have 30-40 there approx. 4.5-6 million million a year coming in, I guess that's the right industry to be in, for a man to head a school with a Masters in Ecology, no PhD, nuthin'- I'm wondering what kind of crazed world we're living in?  It must be double the luxury having the kids do all the work to fix up the school, chop would for your own persoanl use, etc. sure the list goes on and on.  30 girls at your service...
That kind of money coming in really makes me ill.  I personally would not be able to live with myself, Colleen, how do you just stand by and justify the harm done, in your own mind...You have 2 children now, how can you bear to bring them into such an environment.
I understand Mike Finn's own son killed himself.  Of course I have no way of knowing what his relatinoship was with Mike and Deb after I left, but this too is still something to consider when both were hired to care for girls, some who were suicidal and yet they were unable to provide their own son with the care and services required.---NOTE: I was asked to remove this post, but have decided to edit it instead- as several girls pointed out and I would agree, this is a point that should be considered and made known to others.
Collen, you're heart may very well be in the right place, however  you and the founders of MMS began this program and seems to me built off Cross? Creek? and other other programs, making it your own but without the qualifications.  Gary maybe had the qualifications he has a PhD I believe, but everyone else did not.  Mike has I belive some certificate to be a rehab counselor- we were not a rehab however.  We were a  school that bullied girls into change.  It also seemed to me Gary was bullied around too, he would occasionally speak up and often frown at John and Mike when they were being aggressive in group therapy, but M and J often didn't seem to give second thought to his concerns- I KNOW part of him felt this was wrong, just like Ron (the teacher) did.   None had expertise on mental illness, on issues teenagers have, does anyone there know how to talk about gay issues- as I had? transgender issues shoud they arise? Things seemed oversimlified, abuse/addiction, that's it- no societal complexities addressed- even the struggles of being a woman, simply ignored and left untapped, in an all grils school!   Was anyone really qualified (besides Gary, who was often not present during group) to be addressing abuse issues and allowing girls enter into dissociative states while free writing and have that bring up 'new'memories?  The idea is controversial in itself, even with doctors who have studied this for years and years, imagine an ecology graduate facilitating it.  While I was there about 5 girls suddenly had this disassociative issue, formerly known as MPD ( multiple personality disorder), like it was contagious.  New memories popping up constantly of ritualistic abuse, even I thought I had new memories!  It was absolute madness.
Once physical labor broke us down emotionally, laying out the framework by which we all should live, without hesitation and unquestioningly?  for the sake of creating independent women and thinkers? Would you say that, as independent logical individuals, that imposing your own will onto others is a good thing?  See, I'm thinking that is not exactly helpful therapy.  Beyond that, I felt it was abusive. (I'm talking about the therpay now, some other things were useful- I learned how to ski, that was a pretty cool thing)
That said, I hope that all of us formerly 'damaged goods' can get it together and see this 'thing' through-that is, tell our stories so that this issue we all feel so passionaltely about is addressed.  MMS should be regulated- it could only help- and reforms need to be made, as should other schools like MMS. A couple of stories told and I can't imagine the public believing this is entirely acceptable.  We have to care for every member in our society, as the idea goes, I think that if half the girls that attended/attend MMS feel subjected to abuse, even if it worked for the other half, reforms should be made so that girls don't have to be damaged or at least so parent are aware and can then make a better informed decision on whther MMS would be good for their child.  As it is the picture painted of MMS is that it is a wornderful program that works...what about those it's damaging...  See reveiws of MMS at strugglingteens.com, according to Lon Woodbury, MMS it wonderful!!
  You know, the funny thing, as sure as I am of myself, there's this naggin feeling that I am wrong.  Isn't that crazy Colleen?  You create a place for abused kids and the kids turn into adults and still fear you?  Do you realize the safe haven was felt possibly as equally as abusive and holds just as many painful memories and carries with it an equally great sadness as the past prior to MMS for some girls?  what was lost there...very sad... I can't think of a single reason why MMS isn't willing to work to ensure that even if it doesn't help all, girls don't leave in worse condition...If the purpose is to help and I ran the program, I'd certainly be re-evaluating.  that's the problem, though, things don't change and more girls are being admitted and many continue to come out with the same complaints. My feeling is that MMS needs an intervention of it's own.

I am sad, I lost much prior to MMS.  What little remained I lost while there and was a raw nerve upon my return to reality.  I hope at minimum if you read this you can consider your methods, John can get educated, things need to change.  I am angered that our gov't does not regulate these schools, but it is what it is, for now.

Katfish[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-04 10:09 ]
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 11:52:00 PM
Katfish,

        I feel the same as you, and you expressed so many things that I have wanted to express, but could not find the words or the courage. I feel crazy often because I can also justify the good with the bad, and say well "it did teach me a lesson"....just as we were taught to think. I have always thought about all that money they make...and all those chores, "punishments" we had to do was it really a chore or a way to save up all that money? All that lawn maintnance, wood chopping, horse shit shoveling, fence building, forest clearing, arena fixing, hay stacking,ice chipping, etc etc etc etc (not to mention the fact that we did it also on john's property) .....that would have been pricey to hire someone for all that! seiously! You are right n target with what you said.
anyway, I would love to hear what Collen has to say about all of this!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 11:56:00 PM
Katfish,

      I would also like to try to contact with you..but not sure how.

                           Angel
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2005, 01:08:00 AM
Angel,

E-mail her at [email protected]

There you go!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2005, 03:48:00 AM
this makes me absolutely fucking sick to my stomach. you want to talk about manipulation, this is it in full force.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 04:15:00 AM
It wasn't perfect, but it was better than where I was headed in life and a hell of a lot better than other places I had friends get sent to, for instance Cedo or some place in Jamaica conveniently located so they could beat the kids as they pleased. Some of the things at MMS seemed strange but I can't speak to them because I don't know the whole story. I don't think it's anywhere near abusive though. As for all the work, I enjoyed it. It helped me not be a spoiled brat, gave me an outlet for aggression, and hell it was fun at times. I'm not so sure about the work at John's. I have no idea about their money situation and I don't want to speculate about shit I don't know about.

Angel... did you go to MMS for a very short time somewhere between 2003-2004? I seem to recall somebody named Angel
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
Angel is an alias,not her real name.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 11:11:00 AM
For Colleen,

Thank you for believing in my child.  That she could surmount her problems and learn to be a contributing, functioning adult.

She needed to mature, and learn responsibility.  You and MMS helped her do that.  She had to make the changes, but you gave her the tools.  Not all "bratty kids" in the family have become mature even at age 50+.

Personally, I do not think it abusive to have to shovel horse manure.  Group therapy is not to be carried out of the group, but the group is part of the therapy.  I do not think that a shower is a "right."  Someone has to pay for the water and the electricity to heat the water.  Accountability is important.

I do not know what "licensing" there is in Montana.  I don't remember John's degrees or how he started counseling.  Perhaps that could be cleared up.

I'm sorry for the girls who feel so victimized.  I too have been subject to verbal and emotional abuse.  The only way out of it I found was to change me.  I no longer tolerate it.  

I agree that there is a lot of pain here, that there is a lot of manipulation here, that there are honest differences here.

For those of you who did not finish the program or even have any involvement, I think you should realize that your perspectives will be different than those who were there.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 12:04:00 PM
Colleen,

Thank you ... Thank you for being an awesome teacher, thank you for supporting me throughout my difficult times at MMS... thank you for being involved with the wonderful yet NOT PERFECT program that is MMS.  Thank you for helping me get in to college.  Thank you for staying in touch with me and giving me updates on your family since I've left.  Thank you for the pictures of your beautiful daughters.  Thank you for playing your guitar and singing for us, and including me in that!  

I appreciate you and won't ever forget what you and all of the staff at MMS have done for me.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 06:23:00 PM
COLLEEN


THANK YOU FOR LETTING YOUR HUSBAND MANIPULATE YOUNG GIRLS IN TO SAYING THINGS THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SAY AND MAKING THEM DO THINGS THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 02:09:00 AM
For those of you posting because you have an issue with Colleen, though you may be angry about many things I think if you focus on things that are non subjective you would get your point across better. I know that you are probably just speaking out of anger which can happen to all of us, but by doing so your point isn't being heard. People will always have opinions about allegations, and as strongly as you feel something it won't change their mind. I don't have a personal vendetta against Colleen myself, though I do find it absolutely ridiculous and humorous that she calls people who write negative posts about MMS and threatens them with lawsuits. I just wanted to try to shed a little light from an outsiders perspective on how these posts come across.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 04:02:00 PM
Wow well written Kat. I totally agree with all that you had to say in this post. I think it took a lot of courage to speak your mind about the abuse that went on at MMS. I wrote something on the internet about MMS a while ago and got calls from girls who said that colleen had called them asking for my number. She eventually found it and gave me an angry phone call. I thought that it was sick what they were doing, how they searched the whole internet to see if girls were bad mouthing the school. Anyways good for you to write this and i support every word that you said
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2005, 02:32:00 AM
I don't get why everyone is saying this stuff to Colleen. I'm pissed off about MMS too, but to choose Colleen to get pissed at doesn't make sense to me. There were so many others involved. The successes and/or failures of mission mountain should not fall on her shoulders any more than John, Gary, Mike, or anyone else that works there.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2005, 03:06:00 AM
So then what are the reasons you're mad at each one of them? What did they do? Maybe everyone should break down their experience by each staff member. It could help put things into perspective.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on May 07, 2005, 02:04:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-05-06 23:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't get why everyone is saying this stuff to Colleen. I'm pissed off about MMS too, but to choose Colleen to get pissed at doesn't make sense to me. There were so many others involved. The successes and/or failures of mission mountain should not fall on her shoulders any more than John, Gary, Mike, or anyone else that works there."


I have a problem now where I didn't really before- that is John Mercer and Mike Finn were the real probelm I had against MMS- however Colleen contacted me and has contacted several other girls, aparently threatening them with lawsuits and I felt that was hypocritical.  I began to wonder how on earth she could reconcile those threats and deliberate intimidation with having our best interest at heart?
Then I got to thinking, actually, there were some wrongs on her part that I would like to question should I have her ear (eyes) which I believe I do.

Regarding John and Mike, I've posted I bunch with reagrds to the way I found them to be abusive-- also posted on strugglingteens.com  ...  Look around, it's there.  I believe I haven't been the only one to post specifics regarding the aforementioned bullies.
best,
kat
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Antigen on May 07, 2005, 02:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-05-07 11:04:00, katfish wrote:

...bullies.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C.S. Lewis.

Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 11, 2005, 08:14:00 PM
Who, personally, has had colleen call them up and threaten them with a lawsuit.  not who HEARD this happened, but who did it actually happen to.  just curious.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: sarahf on May 12, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
i seriously think yall are fucked up venting at colleen this way. for whatever it's worth i truly love john and collen, and mike and deb most of all.
they gave me the tough love and support that my spoiled, fucked up ass needed.
if you hate them, then why are you giving them so much of your energy?!
MOVE ON!!!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on May 12, 2005, 04:06:00 PM
Speaking for myself, to help prevent my experience from being repeated.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2005, 07:35:00 PM
it's NOT being repeated... the school is CHANGING.  Mike and Deb are Gone... most of the staff is GONE.  the only common denominators are John and Colleen who have rarely even been around lately since they now have two beautiful daughters...
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on May 12, 2005, 07:51:00 PM
Hey anony-
post above, what's same/different about the program from 2000 versus now or closer to now? and what years were you there?  

kat
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2005, 07:59:00 PM
There's been some posts about it.  I was there 1998 to 2000.  Staff is different, the approach is different ( a lot more structured )  Clymerchick posted about it under another heading on this forum.  She stated it nicely.  I mean, regarding the abuse I guess.  I can't speak for how it was in the early 90s, but there was no abuse while I was there or the girls I knew while I was there... and since then.  They may not like it, but they weren't abused.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2005, 01:48:00 AM
You said ...I was there 1998 to 2000. Staff is different, the approach is different ( a lot more structured )... I can't speak for how it was in the early 90s, but there was no abuse while I was there or the girls I knew while I was there... and since then. They may not like it, but they weren't abused. (QUOTE)

Wow, your last sentence is really something. How can you make a statement like this "...they may not like it, but they weren't abused." I would hope you would come back and apologize to the girls because you do not know everyone's stories and if you think that things we're read about her are not abusive, then you are sadly mistaken. You must have a weird way of looking at things in life.  

Because I find it abusive when someone forces you to tell you innermost secrets, revealing things that you would never had dreamed you would have to reveal.

I find it abusive when a child is taken out of school for 8 months and is forced to do manual labor for that time, is not allowed to shower for the entire 8 months, does not get to eat with the others, and so on. Hmm... not abusive?

What about the girl who was forced to carry rocks in a backpack even when she rode a bike. These were no light rocks. SHe suffered from bruising up and down her spine.

Those are just a very few examples of what Ive read here that contstitues abuse in my opinion.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2005, 02:52:00 AM
There was definately not a time where there were no showers for 8 months. Maybe a few weeks, which is still gross but never 8 months. I don't know where you got that information from.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2005, 06:46:00 PM
I don't apologize.  Therapy is revealing your secrets... getting them out, working through them, dealing with your shit.  I had to write an entire life story of everything i'd never told anyone, and do you know how relieving that was??  secrets can be dangerous, they stew inside you... especially if you have guilt over any of it... it just stays in there and is so destructive!!!  and i'm pretty sure if you didn't want to say something, you didnt' have to.  no one had a gun to our heads!  there were still things i didn't say after i'd left, that i really didn't want to say, so i didn't.    and yeah, that showering thing is BS.  even when we were on intervention, it seemed like once a week we'd all treck back to campus to shower and do laundry.  and the girl with the rocks, did she say she was bruising?  or was she afraid to?  I know sometimes I didn't want to speak up.  i had a bizarre injury that i was scared to talk about, but i finally told deb and she took me to the doctor and we took care of it.  i was never told i was lying or making it up...
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Antigen on May 13, 2005, 08:04:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-05-13 15:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I don't apologize. Therapy is revealing your secrets... getting them out, working through them, dealing with your shit. I had to write an entire life story of everything i'd never told anyone, and do you know how relieving that was?? secrets can be dangerous, they stew inside you... especially if you have guilt over any of it...


Yes, secrets can be dangerous; whether you keep them in or reveal them to the wrong people.

Exactly what are the qualifications of the people to whom you revealed your secrets? How can you be sure that their advice was good advice? Were you ever put into a position to provide counseling to other girls? Were you qualified to do that?

No, they didn't hold a gun to your head litterally. But there are other forms of coercion that are a lot more effective. Social pressure alone is pretty effective sometimes. Social pressure under isolation is more effective.

I don't think these people know what they're doing. I do believe they're doing considerable harm.

Any comment, Colleen? This thread's for you, after all. And several different people have suggested that you're reading every word of it. No comment?

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2005, 08:59:00 PM
I never counseled other girls, gave them my opinion, but never counseled.  And I believe these people did know what they were talking about, especially Gary who was very qualified.  And when Carla came... same thing.  The rest of the staff, teachers and stuff... would help us out, support us, but would never give us therapeutic assignments... I really don't think what the staff of MMS is doing today is harmful.  Sure they coudl rework a few things, and they are, and that's what life's about... seeing what works, changing what doesn't, and I think they're doing a pretty good job of that these days.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Antigen on May 13, 2005, 09:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-05-13 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I never counseled other girls, gave them my opinion, but never counseled.  

What's the difference?

Quote
And I believe these people did know what they were talking about, especially Gary who was very qualified.  And when Carla came... same thing.  The rest of the staff, teachers and stuff... would help us out, support us, but would never give us therapeutic assignments... I really don't think what the staff of MMS is doing today is harmful.  Sure they coudl rework a few things, and they are, and that's what life's about... seeing what works, changing what doesn't, and I think they're doing a pretty good job of that these days."


But it's not asif we don't know already the results and effects of confrontational therapeutic communities. We do. Some of us know about it through firsthand experience; the nightmares, the neuroses and all. And that has led us to seek out others and compare notes. Some of those others are egg heads who know just where to look for the relavent research.

The research bears out our experience. We're actually not just dysfunctional, ungrateful, weak individuals who were too flawed to benefit from the great gifts of our respective gurus. We're the norm.

Your gurus would know this too if they would bother to look at the research or listen to their former students or even just use a little common sense before pressuring a little girl (you were, we all were, it's not an insult) to delve into her most painful, personal issues in front of a bunch of other little girls.

But they don't want to know.

Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: kerryberry420 on May 15, 2005, 04:31:00 PM
my god this got out of control this has turned into a war between girls each trying to prove that they are right.  that wasn't what this was about at all.  this was ONLY about trying to make legislature that monitors programs more closely.  not just mms, all of them.  the "teen help" industry is the fastest growing industry in the country and programs are popping up everywhere, i persoanlly think there should be an agency created just to monitor these programs.  not something to get in the way of what they are doing but somehting to make sure that the girls (and boys) come first.  sorry i let myself get off of my own topic even, but this was really all i wanted to get across.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2005, 12:52:00 AM
"this makes me absolutely fucking sick to my stomach. you want to talk about manipulation, this is it in full force."

I think that was Colleen.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 01:57:00 PM
yeah i think so too.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: KatieH on June 01, 2005, 06:33:00 PM
Im the one who carried the rocks, I did not have bruising up and down my spine and I did not have to wear them on the bike, I was allowed to put them in my panniers.  I am glad I carried the rocks, it helped me realize the things I need to work on, so stop talking about my situation and calling it abuse-It's me Katie Harrison- I will say it again, no more sppeculation, I carried the rocks and it was NOT abuse.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on June 01, 2005, 10:45:00 PM
Hey Katie!  
Long time, how are you?  Hope you are well!  Whenever I hear about the plague (not in a bad way!) I think of you, remember that story you wrote around the topic?  Always thought it was really interested and that I'd see your name in some literary journal somewhere!

Anyway, not sure if I made the reference you speak of, although I assure you, if it was, it wasn't about your rock carrying 'journey' referenced. Another former MMSer was forced to use rocks at metaphor as well and that was who is being spoken about...

Sounds like we have differing views on MMS, that's cool, just want to make sure facts we're somewhat straight and you were not confusing the issue.

Best to you and yours,
kat
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: KatieH on June 02, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Hey Kat!!  Are you who I think you are?  NO matter how our views differ about MMS, I would really like to catch up with you!!  My email is [email protected]  I would love to hear what you are up to, maybe we can talk on the phone.  Send me a message girl!  Love Katie
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: sunshine on June 03, 2005, 10:27:00 PM
Youre not the only one who had to carry rocks Katie. While I was there another girl had to carry them. For like, 9 or 10 months! she did get bruises. she did have to carry them, aside from the ones we all had to carry in our paniers. She did have to ski up garnet  through a blizard with them. And im sure it hurt a lot.

Even a little boy sees rottenness rewarded and good people smacked down. Unctuous rationalizations of this by otherwise sensible adults disgust little children.
John Taylor Gatto

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: KatieH on June 05, 2005, 03:21:00 PM
Hey Sunshine, when were you there? I don't know about other girls, but I chose my own rocks, nobody but me was responsible for how much weight I was carrying.  Who were the other girls who carried rocks, not who knows them, but the girls who actually did it.  They are the only ones who can say how it affected them.  Are you out there ladies?
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: sunshine on June 07, 2005, 10:05:00 PM
Things like that don't only affect the person that its happening too, but everyone that cares for that person and is watching as they struggle with fifty pounds of extra weight that I didn't have. Luckily. Im sorry that you don't want to hear my opinion. Why does it matter when I was there?

The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 10:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-06-01 15:33:00, KatieH wrote:

I am glad I carried the rocks, it helped me realize the things I need to work on,


How exactly did this help you realize anything?
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 02:06:00 PM
Okay I didn't carry rocks----but lets not pretend to be dumb---Anon above I think you know why it helped her come to all sorts of realizations about her life----I can see what your major disagreements are about this place come from and well because I have had the same doubts and questions---and the truth about that comment above it sounds ignorant and I highly doubt you are---lets try to understand what others are saying because if everyone is just splatting there opinions up here and not trying to see the other side we will all end up walking away from this alone.  

I am going to the reunion to see my friends to be with girls that are there and hopefully see alumni that I have never met----I understand why most of you don't want to go...

I was scheduled to go visit MMS about 2 years ago----And I found myself in Portland on my way in my car-Stunned by how frightened I was because I didn't feel good enough. At first I blamed my feelings on the school and the truth is that all of it had to do with me---I couldn't blame it on anyone but my self----And now I have changed ....not the school I have changed and I am at a point were I can go back.  Its really strange, life is I guess what I am referring to because well it just is and I think MMS had a ginormous affect on me and you and everyone else good or bad and everything in between.  Even if I had neevr gone there ---I would have felt loss, anger and pain, and the truth of the matter I have been in some kind of institution all my life whether it was public school, Detention center, therapy or MMS----I really don't know anything and I am no one to argue with and I have repect for all of you and your process-and we all carry rocks, whether we recognize them or not anon above maybe afew of your stones have to do with MMS----and soemtimes it takes actual rocks, tangible wieght to prove that we have these pains in our life.  Anyways thats my expereince.  I love all of you in a very special way, wow I know its a bit blaa but it fucking true.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 11:33:00 PM
i recognize that this type of metophorical  therapy may work on some, but to others there may a definite sense that it is useless, if not harmful- bruising, etc.  
For me, however, it is difficult to understand how associating rocks with actual issues a person is struggling with is helpful. I don't understand how that leap can be made, but then again, I didn't feel MMS therapy gave me very much clarity to begin with, so naturally I don't think carrying rocks would have been helpful if I wasn't at all clear or had any sense of what I needed to tackle to move forward.  
But that was the whole point of me being at MMS- getting clear and tackling these issues, no?  I think if I hadn't been so terrified and was allowed to tell my parents this wasn't working- instead of them stating it was a manipulation trick- then perhaps a lot of heartache at MMS and after could have been avoided.  
Unfortunately, I felt unable to speak up and had a lot more confusion and pain to deal with afterwards than I otherwise would have.  
I also think, like the nightmares so many girls have of MMS, the anxiety and shame of not being good enough was not something that we a 'naturally' carry with us, but was put on us.  Of course, it's up to each one of us to try and address that feeling (like what was posted earlier) of being too 'fucked up', but the point is that it is extremely harmful to harbor those feelings of shame that MMS so readily placed squarely on our shoulders in an effort to get us to alter our behavior and way of thinking. Surely there are better ways to reach that objective without causing that lingering feeling to plague each of us...?  
Those feelings of shame can be much more damaging than I think we really give credit- it can have that self-sabatoging effect and I am sure it has caused much pain in many of our lives- regardless of our overall views of MMS.  Again, of course, its up to each one of us to work through it and move past it, but for it to even be there to begin and be placed there by a school devoted to helping us makes me wonder how truly beneficial those methods really are ?
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 11:40:00 PM
ANON writes:
I found myself in Portland on my way in my car-Stunned by how frightened I was because I didn't feel good enough. At first I blamed my feelings on the school and the truth is that all of it had to do with me---I couldn't blame it on anyone but my self----And now I have changed ....not the school I have changed and I am at a point were I can go back.

What did you have to change?  You mean something you disliked about yourself?  Was it b/c your dislike or thought MMS would disapprove? Do you think you felt 'not good enough' b/c of you or MMS?  ANd what if you feel 'not good enough' but there's nothing about you that really requires changes, in your opinion, but does by MMS standards?

  And why frightened- we're big girls, isn't it abnormal to feel 'frightened' of a school that was made to be seen as a 'safe place'?  Fear of MMS?  I don't understand.  I mean, I do, b/c I went there- that's what it's all about, I just don't understand why that's ok.  
Imagine- adult women afraid of a  school they attended in their teens.  Just seems to me entirely contradictory in terms of its role in our lives, it's purpose and our emotional response.  
I also can't understand the nightmare part of this  too.  We can speak until we're blue, but emotions speak much louder- at least, in my mind.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Cayo Hueso on June 09, 2005, 12:00:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-06-08 11:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Okay I didn't carry rocks----but lets not pretend to be dumb---Anon above I think you know why it helped her come to all sorts of realizations about her life

I know the "line" about why its supposed to help, but I'd really like to hear your explanation.  Again, I'm not attacking you...I'm really trying to learn from your perspective.

Quote
I was scheduled to go visit MMS about 2 years ago----And I found myself in Portland on my way in my car-Stunned by how frightened I was because I didn't feel good enough. At first I blamed my feelings on the school and the truth is that all of it had to do with me---I couldn't blame it on anyone but my self----And now I have changed ....not the school I have changed and I am at a point were I can go back.

Please elaborate on this.  Why did you feel so frightened?  Why was your original reason for blaming the way you fealt on the school and what changed your mind?

 
Quote
Its really strange, life is I guess what I am referring to because well it just is and I think MMS had a ginormous affect on me and you and everyone else good or bad and everything in between.  Even if I had neevr gone there ---I would have felt loss, anger and pain, and the truth of the matter I have been in some kind of institution all my life whether it was public school, Detention center, therapy or MMS----I really don't know anything and I am no one to argue with and I have repect for all of you and your process-and we all carry rocks, whether we recognize them or not anon above maybe afew of your stones have to do with MMS----and soemtimes it takes actual rocks, tangible wieght to prove that we have these pains in our life.  Anyways thats my expereince.  I love all of you in a very special way, wow I know its a bit blaa but it fucking true.

"


I'm glad you're posting here.  I'm not trying to attack you at all, I am sincerely interested in how you view all of this.  It gives me a much better understanding of how I've dealt with it for the past 20+ years.  Hope you stick around and continue to post.  Things get very heated arojnd here, don't let it get you down.  There are many, many great people here.....extremely passionate about what they believe in, but for the most part we're good people...just get a little uppidy sometimes.

They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?

Michael More

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Antigen on June 09, 2005, 12:31:00 AM
We didn't carry rocks at all. Instead, we ran laps around the inside of a warehouse and did calisthenic exercises... for hours.

What I learned from that is that I am a pretty tough bitch. I got through the entire two years w/ the attitude that I could play the game, go through the motions and deliver my lines longer than they could try and wear me down. "Run another two hours? Fine." Never mentioned that I used to run 3mi, bike 40 and swim 50 laps some days before the program.  
 

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture
is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin
to understand me?

--O'Brien to Winston Smith

Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2005, 01:29:00 AM
Hello fellow MMS companions, I stubbled across this website by accident but would so much like to get reconnected with other MMS students.  What you have said is interesting.  I have often thought those very things but, always reject the idea that their intentions were anything but pure.  Man am I nieve.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
YES colleen thanks for all of both you and your husband johns abuse to us. Sure you were nice to some of the girls but to the rest of us you were heartless and incredibley crule! thanks for nothing. And I also think that its sick that you hunt down girls who are just sharing the hardships they went through so NO OTHER GIRLS HAVE TO ENDURE THE PAIN AND SUFFERING THAT MOST OF US HAD TO EXPERIENCE. It makes me sick!!!!! You both deserve all the shit in the world for putting us through all that bull crap, and I pray no one else has to go through what we did. :flame:
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2006, 12:39:00 AM
KAT.  I HAVE READ ALL OF YOUR POSTINGS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.  I SEE A SPECIAL CARING AND SENSITIVE YOUNG WOMAN EMERGING. I BELIEVE THAT THIS LETTER TO COLEEN MAY THE "TRUTH THAT SETS YOU FREE."   I HEAR A SOFTER AND WISER INNER VOICE THAT IS FINALLY EMERGING.  KEEP UP THE CARING AND BLAZING A TRAIL OF TRUTH.  MIA'S MOM.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on April 25, 2006, 01:13:00 AM
what a nice think to say- thank you Mia's mom... I hope Mia is doing ok... I think we're doing good things over at CAFETY and foriming a strong core group of young people committed to ensuring that not another kid is harmed in the name of therapy or care... and that care is duely received.

Indeed the truth has set me free, a freedom I never thought possible... this whole expererience has been an incredible journey- I've met the most remarkable people, just by being honest.  I appreciate your kind words of support.  I hope that you come visit us over http://www.cafety.org (http://www.cafety.org)  -- I post there a lot too!   :grin:    kat
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 05:55:00 AM
In my opinion... people are NAIVE when they listened to others opinions and decide to act or feel a certain way based on what they heard. You may be naive, but i hope you don't think an anonymous comment is the truth, it's just an opinion.....

A bit off subject, but... I saw Colleen not to long ago and she was wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 08:40:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-04-26 02:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

people are NAIVE when they listened to others opinions and decide to act or feel a certain way based on what they heard... it's just an opinion


LOL- logic 101,you right... I think it would be NAIVE of anyone to listen to you... that, or absolutely moronic because you're obviously logically inept ...   :wstupid:  

 :rofl:
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-04-26 02:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"In my opinion... people are NAIVE when they listened to others opinions and decide to act or feel a certain way based on what they heard. You may be naive, but i hope you don't think an anonymous comment is the truth, it's just an opinion.....



A bit off subject, but... I saw Colleen not to long ago and she was wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "


I agree-acting soly on the basis of others beliefs about you, at the exclusion of all esle is- I wouldn't say it's naive, but certainly it could lend itself to some problems if you are unaware of your own self, your limitations, strengths and weaknesses and have no real sense of who you are in relation to the world- noting both intent and peoples feedback regarding your interactions with them, etc- a certain amount of objectivity is in order...  The very notion of opinion implies ambiguity, which, unless your prepared to make a scientific based assesement of... me (I assume that it's Mia's Mom's comment you're commenting on) it's hard to say whether or not I'm caring or sensitive or aquiring some wisdom in a verifiable truth kind of a way.  In general, I can confirm I am that way... although not all the time ..  I should know- I live with myself every minute of every day.

And, I can confirm that Colleen can indeed be wonderful... but she can also be pretty nasty.  And her passively allowing her husband to be a jerk is pretty weak of her... in my opinion. In truth.. she allowed her husband to be a jerk to us.  So I take off wonderful points for that.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: poncho on April 26, 2006, 01:34:00 PM
Quote
And, I can confirm that Colleen can indeed be wonderful... but she can also be pretty nasty.  And her passively allowing her husband to be a jerk is pretty weak of her... in my opinion. In truth.. she allowed her husband to be a jerk to us.  So I take off wonderful points for that.

"


snap snap! (the mms language for agreement)
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 04:53:00 PM
ah ha ha ha ha ha
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: katfish on April 26, 2006, 06:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-26 10:34:00, poncho wrote:




snap snap! (the mms language for agreement)"



yay! snap snap to your snap snap-- ok ok- i'm tired... 13 hour work day, I'm going to go home and have a nice long conversation with a cold beer.    ::cheers::
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 03:08:00 AM
This was not in regards to Mia's moms comment... I am a 2 year survivor at MMS. I don't mean to get on anyone's case with any of my comments, but SOMETIMES (not always... nobody assume I am talking about all the time) sometimes people bitch and moan about how much MMS took away from their lives, personalities etc. and then mention they left the school in 1996. Uhhhh..... STOP LETTING THEM AFFECT YOU SO DEEPLY and let go. Stop ranting and raving about how horrible the school is. This is not an "official" website that is taking notes about people's bad experiences at MMS with intention to shut the school down. This is a website created by an un-happy MMS camper who went to the school when it first opened. PLEASE, no-one tell me "to breath" or "chill" because I am fine. I like this website most of the time... I just feel some people constantly post comments that make them sound like they are preaching the same sad song to the same choir. Instead of complaining and scaring the crap out of recent MMS graduates they should just listen and comment when they actually have something to say...

Wait... just wait ONE SEC... let me prepare myself......



Ok...... ATTTACK!!!!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 08:55:00 AM
um...
huh?
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 12:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-27 00:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

" sometimes people bitch and moan about how much MMS took away from their lives, personalities etc. and then mention they left the school in 1996. Uhhhh..... STOP LETTING THEM AFFECT YOU SO DEEPLY and let go. Instead of complaining and scaring the crap out of recent MMS graduates they should just listen and comment when they actually have something to say..."

BETSY TROLL!!!!!!!!  we should ignore her!! im ignoring you Betsy/ANON from now on you just say shit to get a rise.your just about the most annoying person i have ever met and i even tried to like you and be respectful.  youre just a nasty cruel and mean person . you were like that while at mms and you are now.  and please give up the mms survivor bs, you obviously condone bad behavior and actively participated in it when u were an intern
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 08:21:00 PM
Anon who doesn't like the "bitching from anyone who may have left MMS as FAR back as 1996:"
Do you honestly think there is a time limit on how long mental, emotional, psychological and physical abuse affects a person?
If you really think that-then YOU have a problem, a really BIG problem.
One doesn't say, "Oh, it's been 5 years, or 10 years, OR any given number of years...and then just shrug it off."
I want you to get real, and stop trying to "shame" anyone who wants to speak out about what they consider abuse. You are the one sounding mean-spirited and stupid.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: BarnardlyB on April 27, 2006, 11:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-27 09:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-27 00:08:00, Anonymous wrote:


" sometimes people bitch and moan about how much MMS took away from their lives, personalities etc. and then mention they left the school in 1996. Uhhhh..... STOP LETTING THEM AFFECT YOU SO DEEPLY and let go. Instead of complaining and scaring the crap out of recent MMS graduates they should just listen and comment when they actually have something to say..."


BETSY TROLL!!!!!!!!  we should ignore her!! im ignoring you Betsy/ANON from now on you just say shit to get a rise.your just about the most annoying person i have ever met and i even tried to like you and be respectful.  youre just a nasty cruel and mean person . you were like that while at mms and you are now.  and please give up the mms survivor bs, you obviously condone bad behavior and actively participated in it when u were an intern"




Dear Anon,
I obviously don't know who you are but I will say Im sorry you feel so much hatred towards me. It makes me sad.
I loved all you girls that I went to school with and ones i had the intertnship with, if not more so, becuase I knew exactly what you were going through.
Now, the comments that were made were not me. I have said before and say again.....if i have something to say I have no problem leaving my name by it. Im not the only one who opinion differs from yours and im not the first alumni to agree with another one.
I have been really busy with life and haven't been around and when I opened this topic i wasn't suprized to see your response.
the last time i saw colleen with the reunion and from what I saw she was awesome.......


p.s. three springs wagonwhatever......please stop posting on topics that have nothing to do with you. You didn't go to MMS so go the the three springs forum and post there....!!!!!
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: BarnardlyB on April 27, 2006, 11:53:00 PM
Oh, one more thing....ive been an MMS alumni, not survivor, for a little over 10 years.....not 2..

_________________
you are you
I am I,
Two individuals dancing on our own two feet, & when were together...its beautiful[ This Message was edited by: BarnardlyB on 2006-04-27 20:56 ]
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2006, 04:38:00 PM
And just what made Colleen seem so awesome?
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2006, 08:21:00 PM
I believe that it is human instinct to lash out at another person for hurt or humiliation. Colleen, John, Deb, Mike, Gary or whomever was in charge at the school are optimal targets for anger. Now, I have some issues with the way some things were handled during my stay. As I grow older I have chalked it up to poor education on the part of their staff. I dont think anyone is a bad person at MMS, per say. I do, however, think that they were adults and fully responsible for some of the bad choices they made.

The bottom line is that we were the children and they were the adults. However you want to spell it out or blame or whatever you are doing. I had some trauma to fix up after the school.

I can say one thing though. I have some lasting memories of Deborah Finn and Mike Finn. Also of Gary Kent. In the lowest point of my life, when I had nothing and found myself a bottomed out drunk I opened a small  box in my room while I was packing to move across the county  (geographical fix), and there was a old big book. It was given to her by a sponsor in the 70's. I still have that book. It saved my life. She used to say, " I am going to love you until you can love yourself Sarah Matheson" Still, long after I left that place she loved me when she did not even know.

Mike Finn had a tough love approach but he taught me how to be resonsible for my own actions and consequences. I suppose I learned better than others from his method of teaching.

Gary Kent was not involved as much as he should. He was discredited by John and not allowed to fully teach us the psychological aspects of ourselves. Family roles, personal roles and a traditional sense of what cognitive behavioral therapy should have been.

Colleen, well she had a bite to her. She was, an overall good person though. I truely believe she is probably a good parent. I just remember how nice she was to those damn kittens running everywhere

John Mercer was the problem. I think he had a control issue with a serious superiority isssue. He should never have been allowed to do group or have any interaction with the kids. I believe he caused some serious damage to people, physically and mentally. John would demoralize people, break their will, and skew their sense of reality in order to conform. I think he should not be allowed to work with kids. Thats just what I think.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2006, 09:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-05-01 17:21:00, Anonymous wrote:




John Mercer was the problem. I think he had a control issue with a serious superiority isssue. He should never have been allowed to do group or have any interaction with the kids. I believe he caused some serious damage to people, physically and mentally. John would demoralize people, break their will, and skew their sense of reality in order to conform. I think he should not be allowed to work with kids. Thats just what I think."


100% agree with this portion of what you've said. Sarah, John is now working extensively with the girls and working on his PhD.  I have heard most recent accounts that he has not changed one single bit.  This frightens me to no end.  I worry about the well-being of all the girls presently at MMS.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2006, 10:36:00 PM
I would suggest contacting the ACLU in Montana and filing a formal compaint, if you are that concerned. Also, a measure you can take is to contact the Department of Children and Family Services. I believe I know someone in Missoula at the ACLU. Let me look around a bit.

Judah Girch is an attorney in Whitefish, MT. that handles cases like these. The problem is statute of limitations. You would have to get a judge to over turn the statute of limitations. Tough luck cause no judge is going to go for it. The only other option is for your parents to sue if you attended the school within 8 years of filing. Then it would be a breach of contract. I am guessing at these time frames.

Personally, your best bet is to not go with the legal stuff. I would shoot over to the ACLU site and start up with them.

These are just options. Also, remember that being malicious when you are doing this can create a problem for yourself and whatever cause you are fighting. You have to be honest, direct, clear, and to the point. Do NOT stretch the truth. Talk about facts. If you must talk about feelings, please include them at the end of the letter. When you are dealing with lawyers, just stick to the facts (honest- exaggerations are just sneaky lies).

I think that the things Mission Mountain School did early on is enough to compell the ACLU to do something without stretching truth. I am by no means saying people are lying. I just know how hard it is to not try and get them to see the enormity of the issue by really focussing heavily on certain subjects. I, myself, have a hard enough time not picturing horns and a pitchfork when I think of Mercer.....
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2006, 02:32:00 AM
Colleen doesn't read this shit anymore. It makes her sick. At least that's what i heard
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2006, 05:46:00 PM
yea, must be hard to look in the mirror.  I'd feel sick too if I was her.  When you damage vulnerable kids by pretneding you know what your doing and supporting your husband, who does nothing short of creating a harmful environment, going on to further damage young girls...yea, damn... it's gotta hurt to see that truth reflected back.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-05-01 19:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I would suggest contacting the ACLU in Montana and filing a formal compaint, if you are that concerned. Also, a measure you can take is to contact the Department of Children and Family Services. I believe I know someone in Missoula at the ACLU. Let me look around a bit.




CPS won't do shit unless you are a VERY RECENT student.  Now that people know that it wouldn't suprise me that things will get leaked sooner rather than later...  With more girls getting educated on this issue early on and recognizing things that are completely UNACCEPTABLE in the mental health proffesion that occur at MMS, it's bound to happen.
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2006, 01:01:00 AM
What I find hard to believe is that there are plenty of the girls who need medication. Cognitive behavioral therapy can only do so much unless the actual chemical imbalance is treated. The first part of my twenties was torture until I got on lithium. I thought of it as something "I" was doing wrong rather than a chemical imbalance. You can run a simple blood test to see if a person has an imbalance. To deny someone lithium when they are imbalanced is comparable to telling a person that is diabetic that their insulin deficiency is all in their head and they just need to eat better. It was emotional torture for a while there. Back to the issue at hand, I believe CPS would listen as long as the complaints were valid and they felt they were out of concern for the other children not some sort of vendeta
Title: For Colleen Harrington
Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-05-20 22:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

Back to the issue at hand, I believe CPS would listen as long as the complaints were valid and they felt they were out of concern for the other children not some sort of vendeta"
 

Believing is fine, but the facts differ from your 'belief'.  It is a FACT that they do not.  Call them and ask for yourself.  It's their policy.