On 2004-04-18 20:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The phone calls are normal, though hard to keep to the agreement. The reason for this is that the kids don't want to be there. To have phone calls in the beginning normally will be the teen either saying they want to come home, or crying abuse and everything in between. Once they've taken the opportunity to work on themselves they will have the phone calls, then visits. I can't speak for this particular school, but my experience knows this works."
On 2004-04-19 10:20:00, notworking wrote:
People like you have pathologized childhood and adolescence. You expect children to behave better than their parents, to meet their parents' needs instead of vice versa.
"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily. Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."
Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress
On 2004-04-19 10:20:00, notworking wrote:
People like you have pathologized childhood and adolescence. You expect children to behave better than their parents, to meet their parents' needs instead of vice versa. What's next? Telling a parent to keep their infant in a locked, soundproof room because otherwise "all they'll hear is crying?" After all, parents of newborns have rights, too!"
"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."
--Rick Root
On 2004-04-19 17:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
After that it's when the teen shows they are making changes for themselves, not the parents or the staff. It takes a while sometimes.
Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
On 2004-04-19 12:45:00, notworking wrote:
"Actually, TBS for mentally ill children are an absolutely horrific idea as well. There is a great deal of research indicating that mental illness (esp. bipolar d/o, schizophrenia, depression, and ADHD) are physiologically based. Although it's tough to agree on what medications work best to treat these illnesses, forcing kids to "work on themselves" and "start taking responsibility" is no more effective for mental illness than it would be for diabetes or seizure disorders. Drug use in teens with mental illness is often an attempt to control symptoms -- even out mood or stop intrustive thoughts/hallucinations. In fact, therapeutic communities exacerbate mental illness due to the lack of adequate sleep, food, and predictability. Ask any psychiatrist whether it's a good idea to keep an adult with bipolar disorder from sleeping or eating a balanced diet. Ask them whether adults with schizophrenia need to be screamed at and told how worthless and evil they are.
Unfortunately, mental illness still carries a terrible stigma in our society. It is easier for a lot of parents to say "We decided that if Johnny couldn't follow the rules at home, he could try boot camp for a while" than to say "Johnny is schizophrenic." Which brings me back to my original point. If you are not willing to accept your children as needy, imperfect little people, then you shouldn't have them. "
Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world.
-- Dave Barry
On 2004-04-19 17:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't agree with the no mail rule. I also don't agree with the no phone call rule. But, sometimes it takes some strong incentive for the kids to become open to looking at what got them there in the first place. If it's important to the girl to talk with her mom, she will do what needs to be done to have the calls and the mail. The first part of the stay at the school I'm familar with is the compliance phase. After that it's when the teen shows they are making changes for themselves, not the parents or the staff. It takes a while sometimes. If the mom is worried about her daughter not doing well, she can go see for herself. She should have some contact with other families and/or teens that were also at the same school. It's hard doing it alone and sometimes support from other families is crucial. "
When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir
On 2004-04-19 18:14:00, Antigen wrote:
Don't you get it yet? There's only one way to change someone against their will. You have to break their will. W/ a young, healthy kid, that can take some time.
To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com) and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science Vol. 47, 1984
On 2004-04-19 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're speaking for yourself. Too bad all the kids it turned around don't know about this site. The ones that have get attacked. You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in. If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must? :wink: "
On 2004-04-19 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're speaking for yourself. Too bad all the kids it turned around don't know about this site. The ones that have get attacked. You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in. If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must? :nworthy: :nworthy:
and do serious, lasting psychological damage that can far outweigh whatever they were doing before they were incarcerated.
My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I had no character.
-- Charles Barkley, on hearing Tonya Harding proclaim herself "the Charles Barkley of figure skating"
On 2004-04-19 22:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
What YOU don't get is that most people don't want to hide behind drugs or dangerous behavior the rest of their lives and don't know HOW to change.
Were the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potato as an article of food. Government is just as infallible,[sic] too, when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the Inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere.... It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia
On 2004-04-19 22:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change. What YOU don't get is that most people don't want to hide behind drugs or dangerous behavior the rest of their lives and don't know HOW to change. In the beginning, they may not want to change. Once they feel safe, and it's okay to be vulnerable, they choose to change. Maybe you felt or feel it's breaking their wills, their desires, or whatnot, but it's surrendering the control they've placed on themselves to be okay with making choices that are not about their friends, parents, teachers, or others that would love to see them be as miserable as they are. "
On 2004-04-20 22:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is that your idea of behavior modification, Deborah? The Dr. Pepper can thing must have really happened, as no one would even think up such trash unless they actually did it. Was your daughter watching when you pounded her dog? OR, are you comparing this to Moonridge Academy and what they do to their kids? You're one sick puppy, lady. "
On 2004-04-20 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"**Virtually every severe "issue" that preteens have is either an undiagnosed medical problems (i.e. bipolar disorder) or a parenting problem.** Written by "Notworking"
Good name, Notworking. You say you know a lot about child development. NOT! There's a much bigger picture here. Can you see it? I didn't think so.
BTW, I wasn't aware Moonridge admitted pre-teens. Maybe I can find their website and see. It seems to me you just want to get on your soapbox and this thread seemed to be the place to be. :wink: "
Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends. Bush.
Bill Gallagher
On 2004-04-19 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
" You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in. If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must? :wink: "
Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877
On 2004-04-20 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"**
Good name, Notworking. You say you know a lot about child development. NOT! There's a much bigger picture here. Can you see it? I didn't think so.
BTW, I wasn't aware Moonridge admitted pre-teens. Maybe I can find their website and see. It seems to me you just want to get on your soapbox and this thread seemed to be the place to be. :wink: "
On 2004-04-21 09:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"***
Actually the dog associates the can being shaken with pain. I feel certain that the 'trainer' shook the can, then shocked him with a cattle prod. He might have thrown the can at him too. Don't know, wasn't there. But, the technique shouldn't be used.
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"
On 2004-04-22 22:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why ask why? It's obvious. If it looks like a program for teens, it will be attacked.
What I would like to ask of those that are bashing or making assumptions and who were teens in a program...did any of you talk to your parents much prior to going? So all of a sudden, not talking to them while you learn to communicate respectfully is a problem. If this program prohibits letter writing, that is a new one. The programs that prohibit phone calls for a while do so for a good reason.
Or maybe they just want to come home, period. You should be GRATEFUL your child loves you so much that s/he wants to come back after you've paid someone to abuse her/him.
They just want to come home and get back to what they were doing before.
Being a parent doesn't mean being verbally manipulated and abused. Being a parent means being able to admit we were part of the problem and doing something about it.
If Moonridge is a good program, great. If not, they'll go away like so many others soon enough. If the mom feels things are going well, why would anyone else care? "
What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.
--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)
A good program will have support groups and on line chats via the school.
On 2004-04-23 18:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The comments on this site have been useful - there seems to be some division along the lines of "all programs are bad for teens" and "some kids need tough love", but no one has defended no contact at all for this long of a time. I wonder why no one has heard of this program, and I am very uneasy - but don't know if I should butt in and tell her this is very bad for her kid."
Here's freedom to him who would read;
Here's freedom to him who would write;
None ever feared that the truth should be heard,
But them that the truth would indict.
--author unknown (circa 1914)
On 2004-06-09 10:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As a student at Kolob i can tell you the no contact really helps because you concentrate on yourself instead of when you get to talk to your parents or your friends. And NO CONTACT with friends is the most important part. Why when you are trying to help your child would you want them to talk to their friends who they were probably out doing the drugs with or getting in trouble with??? yes i hated it while i was at Kolob but the staff was excellent and helped me through it. and dont expect your child to come home perfect bvecause even though i graduated the program when i came home i was far from perfect. but now i am happy and living a healthy lifestyle. i am 19 and have a full time job i have been clean for 6 months and i am going back to school in the fall. so in my opinion as someone who lived in kolob canyon for 6 months it changed my life for the better and i would recommend it to anyone with a teenage girl with problems"
India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman
On 2004-06-10 05:48:00, maxima24 wrote:
"first off i definately wasn brainwashed. and i was there with other girls who werent there for drugs either. one girl i was close to was there for cutting and she hasnt cut in 8 months. it doesnt sound like a long time but when you cut every day for years 8 months is alot. and me ive only been off of drugs for 6 months but after using every day for four years it has been a struggle. and yea it sucked being there but it was good because god only knows where i would be if i never went. i was on the verge of dropping out of hs and getting kicked out of my house. i was stealing money from family friendsand whoever else i could i was sleeping with people for drugs and hated my life. i think it was a good place because now i have the life i deserve and know i deserve. kolob didnt fix my life but they showed me the skills i needed to take control of my life so i could "fix" it myself and i have. and no not every one is successful after a stay in an RTC and no one can make you change they can only show you what you need to do to change. so before any of you tell me i was "brainwashed" or that rtcs are bad and they abuse children why dont you talk to some kids who have been there. or talk to my parents who at one point i hated and they are now my best friends. i call my mom 3 times a day now. at one point i couldve have never seen her again and been happy. and them now they see me as their daughter and who i was meant to be and how much i can amount to. i see myself for what im worth instead of seeing myself as a waste of life.India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?"
-- Sherman
On 2004-06-10 22:53:00, mikey wrote:
"Opps. I said the previous poster said that girl should work on her problems. I did not read all the posts and only read the first page of the thread. Upon verifying my post , I realised I would be the last post on this thread at the time I posted. Therefore , I also realised that the poster before me was not the one who said about the girl working on her problems. My apoligies to the person who posted before me. I made a newbie mistake. lol. "
Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.
There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
On 2004-08-10 07:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
These girls are allowed contact with their parents on a regular basis after they get pass level 1 which can be anywhere from three weeks to three months depending on the person. It is done as a motivation so that these girls will accept the fact that they are here and need help. The average length of time is 1 month.
Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
On 2004-08-12 19:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am sick of you bashing what you don't know about!!!
Until you have worked in a program, been a student in a program or have had a child in a program just SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!
And NO... having a neighbor that died in a program DOES NOT COUNT. Honestly, you have NO idea what you are talking about. "Two lifetimes"? PAHLEEZ!
Get on you soap box somewhere else!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame: :flame: :flame: "
The Christian faith from the beginning, is sacrifice: the sacrifice of all freedom, all pride, all self-confidence of spirit; it is at the same time subjection, a self-derision, and self-mutilation.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
On 2004-12-24 08:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have one thing to say about what is going on with our kids. Soceity has messed them up to the point that everything is alright. Parents need to work to make a living so our kids have no sence of direction and the structure they need in their lives. They grow up watching TV and listening to music that is harming them in more ways than you will ever know. Along with with all the therapy these kids get in an RTC they also get the structure from caring staff. As for fixing a kid that has been making all the wrong choices for who knows how many years, it doesn't work that way. Some make the choice to change sooner than others but overall it's hard to change someone overnight. Study and do your home work, there is a ton of information about RTC's on the internet. "
I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
Moonridge has rules and structure. It has been a great experience for us. Parents can't always fix or change the things that happen in our childrens lives and if the parents are in that position and need help, I applaud them for seeking it out.
Our children need us to be their advocates. We need to stand tall and admit we are not perfect and we need others help sometimes.
This is not being a bad or uncaring parent. I am totally involved with my daughter and her care.
No one should be judged because they have asked for help. It's the families that ignore the pain and suffering, that cause the most damage to their children and to society as a whole.
children can be healed and loved even away from their own homes.
So, please don't judge.
On 2005-07-30 23:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you are comfortable with sending your 11-14 year old daughter to a place where they may not allow her to have any contact with her parents for 2 months, then I recommend Moonridge. I just read a book about religious cults and how they indoctrinate their followers...not too dissimilar.
Still, a parent might prefer a cult or one of these RTC to a child killing herself. They just need to know what to expect.
"
On 2005-11-28 07:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Explain the movement and your isolation theory.
To me isolation would be putting someone in a padded room with no windows. You would think putting someone in a positive atmosphere might have an impact. Our kids are taken off campus regularly. Parent contact is earned through the level system but after a short time if a child is slow in moving parents can have contact. As for the brainwashing you just need to watch your TV for a day and you will get all the brainwashing your heart desires. "
On 2005-11-28 07:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Explain the movement and your isolation theory.
To me isolation would be putting someone in a padded room with no windows. You would think putting someone in a positive atmosphere might have an impact. Our kids are taken off campus regularly. Parent contact is earned through the level system but after a short time if a child is slow in moving parents can have contact. As for the brainwashing you just need to watch your TV for a day and you will get all the brainwashing your heart desires. "
On 2006-04-25 05:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My only response to all of you is that you are clueless to what really goes on in a good treatment center like a CERTS facility. You are also blind to what is going on in this world in regards to what is happening to our kids. Your quick to judge without really knowing. What are you doing to help? At least we are trying to do something positive and I Know first hand that we are making a diffrence. Read what parents had to say about there experience with CERTS. AS you can tell I'm tired of tying to defend what we are tying to accomplish when all were trying to do is help.
Thanks and have a great day. "