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Messages - marcwordsmith

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1
The Seed Discussion Forum / Has anyone heard of Catherine Freer?
« on: February 06, 2007, 04:00:58 PM »
That sounds good to me, Guest. Actually, right now, I'm lobbying that they send him to do an internship on a permaculture farm, which he's interested in. I say, Just give the kid something real to do. Let the pot smoking business take care of itself.

2
The Seed Discussion Forum / Has anyone heard of Catherine Freer?
« on: February 06, 2007, 03:41:05 PM »
Thanks, Greg. Yeah, I know. It's just that some of these places claim to be gentle and loving and sweet. It's hard to know if any of them really are. Now my godson's dad wants me to look at the web site of "Sagewalk." I am trying to convince him that sending his son away for any type of intensive "wilderness therapy" experience is likely to be a hardass abusive experience that will only hurt his kid, not help.

3
The Seed Discussion Forum / Has anyone heard of Catherine Freer?
« on: February 06, 2007, 01:28:56 PM »
Never mind . . . kids have died there. I think I have all the info I need to make my recommendation.

4
The Seed Discussion Forum / Has anyone heard of Catherine Freer?
« on: February 06, 2007, 12:40:56 PM »
Hey, does anybody out there know anything about Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Programs in Oregon? Their website looks nice, but I'm wondering if anyone knows the scoop about them. My godson's parents are thinking of sending him there. They're asking ME for advice! But I don't know. I know that "tough love" has gotten a lot more clever in its advertising since the days of The Seed, and a friendly looking web site guarantees nothing. Any inside info would be mucho appreciated. Thanks in advance.

5
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed Article
« on: February 06, 2007, 12:38:03 PM »
Thanks a million, Dragonfly. I live for the praise! Seriously, your words make me feel happy. Best to you, my friend.

6
The Seed Discussion Forum / Still needing help!
« on: November 30, 2006, 02:17:19 PM »
Hi Johnny G,

Thanks for your post. Yeah, I knew that adolescents were forced into the Seed in Cleveland; I'm not just clear about whether they were taken into the Seed involuntarily in Florida any time after the seventies, or any time after 1975 for that matter (save the kids who were transferred from Cleveland).

All good though. We figured out some wording that avoids the issue.

Ginger, if you are reading this, I am honored to be among the ranks now of the organized malcontents, and ever more grateful for this forum.   ::cheers::

7
The Seed Discussion Forum / Still needing help!
« on: November 29, 2006, 06:58:52 PM »
Well, so now I know that the Seed DID take some under-18-year-olds in the 1980s.

The question remaining is, Were they all there voluntarily? Or did the Seed continue to take adolescents on a nonvoluntary basis? (even if they took fewer than before)

hey Ginger am I an organized malcontent yet, for god's sake? Does this post put me over the top? We shall see . . .

8
The Seed Discussion Forum / When exactly did the Seed close?
« on: November 27, 2006, 07:26:58 PM »
well thanks Guest but now I'm a little confused again. That article is dated February '02. Does that mean the Seed did not finally shut down until '02? Or did it close its doors in '01? HEEELLLLP!

9
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 27, 2006, 04:28:11 PM »
Thanks, Stripe. Sure, I'll take whatever you got. Presuming your email is still the same one I have, I just said the same thing in a private email.

10
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 27, 2006, 02:40:59 PM »
Thanks Johnny G. You know, I realized that after my last post. The Cleveland Seed took adolescents, and when it closed in late '78, many of those younger Seedlings actually got transferred to Fort Lauderdale. So I changed my wording again to "By the 1980s . . ."

Thanks again. I really appreciate your helping me to be as accurate as possible. It's so important to get everything right, because if I get even one detail wrong, there goes all my credibility.

11
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 26, 2006, 07:04:39 PM »
Thanks, Greg.

Here's where I'm at now, and what I feel good about committing to print:

"The Seed was highly publicized, and the attention eventually proved destructive for the program. In 1974 the U.S. Senate published a study that accused the Seed of using methods similar to North Korean communist brainwashing techniques. The bad press, in conjunction with legal pressure from the National Institute on Drug Abuse and curtailing of federal funding, forced the Seed to scale back its operations dramatically. By the late 1970s, the Seed had shrunk to a small fraction of its former size, and was only admitting voluntary ?clients? who were at least 18 years of age. The Seed endured in this diminished capacity until it finally closed in 2001."

By the way, I just noticed that I'm not even officially "a regular around here" yet.  What's up with that? I've been around since 2002; I think that counts for something!! I posted on the original "The Seed Sucks" thread!!

But I need to post four more times before I become a Fornits olcomer, so to speak. Whatever!

 :D

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 26, 2006, 06:14:18 PM »
Then again, maybe I had it right in the first place. The following is from thestraights.com

By 1975 Barker had opened four expansion Seeds, but in 1974 both houses of the US Congress had investigated The Seed and produced critical reports with the US Senate likening Barker's methods to the brainwashing methods employed on American POWs by North Korean Communists. The Senate forced NIDA to require Seed clients to sign a "risk to human  subjects" form as required by NIDA's own policy for grants involving human experimentation. Barker balked at this and lost his bid for an additional federal grant for expansion.  . . .
Barker said that he could not comply with the new state regulations (one can only guess what he objected to) and on October 13, 1975 he lost his license to operate the founding Seed program. [Soon afterwards Barker got his license re-instated to operate a drug rehab apparently for adults-only (18 and above). He is still in operation to treat adults, but if you check with the Office of Children and Families I think they may tell you he is also licensed to treat adolescents.]"

So then, it sounds like, from this, the Seed was required to go to an "only 18 or over" policy from the mid-70s on. Yet the Cleveland Seed was a late 70s phenomenon, wasn't it? And they took adolescents. Hmmm . . .

ANYWAY . . . new question: What's this about FOUR expansion Seeds? I only knew of Dade and St. Pete, in addition to the original one in Ft. Lauderdale.

13
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 26, 2006, 05:51:18 PM »
thanks for the "luck" Ginger.

Well, I've searched the 80's guy's posts and haven't found what I need yet.

But what do you think of the following? Is this "safe" to say?

"The Seed was highly publicized, and the attention eventually proved destructive to for the program. In 1974 the U.S. Senate published a study that accused the Seed of using methods similar to North Korean communist brainwashing techniques. The bad press, in conjunction with lawsuits, forced the Seed to scale back its operations dramatically. GRADUALLY, the Seed shrank to a small fraction of its former size, and was only permitted to accept voluntary ?clients? who were at least 18 years of age. The Seed endured in this diminished capacity until it finally closed in 2001."

14
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 26, 2006, 04:32:09 PM »
Thanks Greg and Ginger! Hmm . . . an ambiguous situation . . . I will take your advice, Greg, and peruse The 80s Guy on this forum.

My wife and I just got back from a Thanksgiving weekend away. It's Sunday here, about 1:30 p.m. I'm going to try and "put this to bed" before I go to bed tonight!

Wish me luck!

15
The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed article to be published/Help needed!
« on: November 23, 2006, 03:24:24 PM »
Dear friends (and adversaries and neutral parties),

My online essay about the Seed (www.insidersview.info/theseed) will be published in an abridged form in January, 2007, in THE SUN magazine (www.thesunmagazine.org). Also, in that same issue, they'll publish an interview I did earlier this year with Maia Szalavitz, author of "Help at any Cost."

I need a little help.

 I wrote, in the introduction to my essay about the Seed:

"The Seed was highly publicized, and the attention eventually proved destructive to for the program. In 1974 the U.S. Senate published a study that accused the Seed of using methods similar to North Korean communist brainwashing techniques. The bad press, in conjunction with lawsuits, forced the Seed to scale back its operations dramatically. By the 1980s, the Seed had shrunk to a small fraction of its former size, and was only permitted to accept voluntary ?clients? who were at least 18 years of age. The Seed endured in this diminished capacity until it finally closed in 2001."

Now, I'm clear about the 1974 U.S. Senate study, and that The Seed shut down for good in '01.

What I'm not entirely sure about is the in-between. Is the following statement accurate?

"By the 1980s, the Seed had shrunk to a small fraction of its former size, and was only permitted to accept voluntary ?clients? who were at least 18 years of age."

Ginger, Greg, Stripe, anyone . . . please let me know. Maybe I should say "By the LATE 1980s . . ."?

Also, I just did a review of all the topic thread titles on this forum, and I saw some discussion of lawsuits about mistreatment (usually medical negligence) of particular kids.
But am I right to say that "lawsuits" are part of what forced the Seed to scale down?

I REALLY appreciate the help! Thank you in advance.

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