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Messages - Charly

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31
The Troubled Teen Industry / Charly
« on: February 05, 2007, 09:48:03 AM »
1. I share only what my son has either shared publicly himself or has allowed me to share.  He isn't particularly concerned about his privacy.  He shares plenty about himself on the internet.

2. I am in no way recommending programs for parents to send teens to. If fact, after talking with psy, TSW, DJ and some of the more courteous posters privately, I really feel comfortable with only one program and that is Second Nature.

3. My son did not and does not hold back any of his thoughts about Carlbrook.  He hated the place, but did make good friends there, including with staff.  

4. I never said "programs are good".  They are not. However, out of home placement may be necessary in some cases.  

5. I don't know of any Carlbrook kids who feel they were abused. I have spoken with quite a few, and I am certainly open to hearing about it.  I'm sure (including my son) there are some who were treated harshly and unfairly.  As I said before, this can happen in a regular school as  well,  and has.  

6. I posted here to try to get information- and share information-which could lead to some ways to help correct the situations which lead to placement in the first place and to abusive treatment methods.  I am listening.  Are you?

7. I can't get very excited about the lack of licensing of the therapists. Licensing just doesn't mean that much to me if the staff is otherwise skilled at working with these young people.  With a few exceptions, this was the case at Carlbrook.  I've been through licensing processes, and to me they are mainly administrative.

8. If all these Carlbrook grads were abused, I hope they find their way here to this forum to share their stories.  My son has been out for almost 3 years, and he has no interest in re-hashing every minute of his 9 months there. Perhaps there are others who are. I have seen one or two come by, but they don't seem interested in staying.

9. Anne, what good does it do to scream from the rooftops that  these places are all abusive?  How's that working for you.  I have a lot better success talking to parents privately and giving my input. They find me a litttle more credible, fortunately, and I can lead them away from a mistake.

32
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 10:08:54 PM »
The names are mainly called by you, Anne. I really feel sorry for you and I have ever since I first started reading your posts.

I find Master's Degree staff very qualified.  I hadn't realized that you had met all the staff and were able to evaluate them!  Of course I should defer to your "expertise".  

Where is it I said abuse was OK with me?  I said if the CEDU model was not substantially changed, there could certainly be emotional abuse. Were kids restrained?  No.  Were they isolated?  No.  Were they beaten?  No.  Starved?  No.  They may have been subjected to confrontation that crossed the line into manipulation or abuse.  I am not saying that is OK and I am not supporting the program without information that this is NOT happening.

I'm saying that my son was not adversely affected.  I, personally, do not know of any kids who were.  Are there some?  Probably.

Anne, I'm sorry it's so hard for you to accept that this program might not hurt every kid.  It might have served a purpose for my son, due to the fortuituous circumstances I discussed earlier.  Why the anger?

33
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:58:49 PM »
The education was fine.  It wasn't what my son was used to, and it wasn't what he wanted to finish out high school with, but it sure didn't hurt him any and he had some excellent teachers.  There were AP and Honors courses and the kids go on to excellent colleges.

I have explained why it worked for my son.  And, yes, we got our money's worth.  There were no options for our situation.

34
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:56:08 PM »
Deborah might not find the credentials adequate.  I and the other parents did.  I got to know many of the staff members very well, due to the constant issues with my kid.  I feel I am in a good position to make the call whether they were good therapists and good with kids.  There were some who were not.  Most were excellent, qualified and caring.
The credentials are not hidden.  They are on the website and on information given to the parents.  If a parent doesn't feel the staff is qualified, there is no need for them to choose this program.

35
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:53:30 PM »
Yes, Anne. I do.  I know enough about education to know what his options were with and without Carlbrook.  He has said as much himself. It allowed a transition to where he needed and wanted to be.  He could not have gotten there otherwise-  he tried and it didn't work.  
It is you who have "no fucking clue."

36
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:51:45 PM »
I find the credentials of the staff more than adequate.
I do agree that substance abuse treatment was not a strength, but that didn't affect my son.

37
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:49:08 PM »
At the time we had to make a decision, Anne, I believed this was the best option for our son.  In fact, it was.  Not everyone came out of the program and did well, but my son has.  I guess in the case of this kid and several others I can discuss, the program did not adversely impact them.  On the other hand, not going to Carlbrook would have led to a totally different outcome.

38
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 04:39:53 PM »
The credentials are on the website and I have the utmost confidence that they are all accurate and properly represented.  This is not a criticism that can be made about this place.  The founders made every attempt to gather what they believed were the most highly credentialed and capable staff to be found.  I think you should accept that and given that premise, is it STILL inherently harmful?  I think this place is the best out there (maybe Oakley is OK), so we can take it from there. Best out there might be still inherently bad and abusive......

39
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 04:14:48 PM »
Arbitration was AAA in VA.  I assume you pick the arbitrator by AAA rules.  I didn'ts see a Severability clause, but I might be missing some paperwork.  

I didn't check on the degrees or certifications, but my son had enough interaction with the academic faculty to know where they have taught before and where they went to school.  I don't believe this school lied about the credentials of the staff.

Physical activity wasn't discouraged.  They had PE and athletic fields, basketball court etc.  One gripe I had was playing lacrosse without protective equipment.  There were several injuries to kids.  Like Deb said, take all that testosterone and give the kids sticks to hit each other with!  What was discouraged was my son running down the road to the extent that he needed to. He made all sorts of "proposals", which is what you had to do if you wanted something special.  All of them were shot down.  He was willing to get up at 6am to run, but needed to leave campus to do it so he could cover some distance.  

I thought the parent workshops were good.  We learned a lot more about the staff and got to meet them.  We met other parents and shared our stories.  We met the other kids.  The family groups were the best part, although painful.  They had three families and two therapists and a higher-level student.  The kids could confront their parents, share things or discuss whatever they wanted to.  It was pretty tough and emotional.   The parents also got to see student panels who were able to answer questions that we had about the school and how these kids (on the panel) viewed things.  Yes, I realize the kids were "picked".  My son wasn't even allowed to talk to parents who visited the campus (except on parents' weekends when we were all there).    The last visit we went to we got to really spend some time with the academic faculty, who had been sort of hidden from view until then.  

Emotional growth- that's a good question.  It is a stupid-sounding phrase.  To me it meant my son could learn to manage himself in schools, the community and family.  I did NOT expect him to become someone different.  He hasn't.  He still struggles with some of the same issues as before CB.  He did manage to mature enough to get himself through high school and onto college, though.  One big thing he learned was that it was OK to share some of his feelings.  He had gone to a boys' school through 8th grade, and you did NOT show any weakness.  You expressed sentiments towards your friends such as "You suck," but never any praise.  You had to be tough at all costs.  However creepy some of the staff previously mentioned might have been in terms of the touchy-feely stuff, it did help my son let out some pain and tears.  That never happened in home-town therapy and it really needed to.

40
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 02:53:31 PM »
I am basing the info on the workshops from the IM conversation I already posted that I had with my son.  Also, from what other kids have told me.  It doesn't sound quite as confrontational as much of the CEDU format, but I will ask more questions.

Yes, the food got to the kids.  I was thanked by several when we sent stuff and my son reported on other stuff received.

The teachers were degreed and had certificates.  Some were actually quite good and the course offerings were good- Honors, AP etc.

I think phone calls moved to once a week after a certain period of time. Our son refused some of the calls anyway, so it wasn't really an issue at first.   There are 4 family workshops a year which provide an opportunity to work on fixing the relationships.  

I found some of my Carlbrook files.  You sign an Arbitration Agreement, which means you can not file a lawsuit, but agree to settle any disputes through Arbitration.  This is not that unusual in a contract.

I found a letter my son wrote to a friend (out of standard, of course).  He said, "This place is like a prison with no walls because running away will just get you sent to a worse place, similar to a real prison.  There are so many ridiculous rules that are driving me crazy and I don't think I can handle it much longer.  I'm trying to fake it as much as I can but it's not working out too well for me.  I'm different than I used to be though by a long shot.  I don't want to do drugs or drive cars or "fuck bitches" anymore if you know what I'm saying.  All I want to do is be somewhere that I can slow down and workout and run all the time and be able to have general freedoms like talking to my friends.  I'm reading a lot because it's one of the only things to do around here besides play chess and work on your "emotional growth".   To top it off, I can't run, at least not on my own terms. I am allowed to run on campus, which is much smaller than XXXX, with a partner.  The fastest guy here is as fast as XXX(slowest, fattest friend they had), so that doesn't exactly work out for me.  Of course I thought I could get around that rule, so one day I took off running down the road and I got in a lot of trouble.   I really miss XXXX(school) and all my friends there.  I took for granted all the freedom I had there.  I did whatever the hell I wanted to do, and the worst part is, if I hadn't gotten caught up in stupid stuff, which eventually led to my downfall, I might still be there.  That whole thing really stresses me out when I'm here and I can't have all my own clothes, hygiene products or pictures.  I'm making straight A s in school with little effort, which is nice and relaxing, but for some reason I'm in a stage where I want to learn and be challenged.  Just think of my ass sitting here in the middle of nowhere being drilled every day for "being negative" and "not being committed to my emotional growth".  You have it so good.  Don't screw it up like I did."

41
The Troubled Teen Industry / Coercive "therapy"
« on: February 04, 2007, 01:03:56 PM »
AA- I agree with much of what you wrote.  However, one thing we have to learn is that there are rules that are set and whether or not any of us agree with them, they need to be followed or there will be consequences that we don't want.  I worked for a company where the CEO threw a tantrum one day because people were drifting in after the designated start of the work day.  He issued an ultimatum that we ALL had to be through the door by 8am.  We all bitched and complained- after all, many of us stayed WAY later than "quitting time", traveled on business on weekends etc.  However, as our immediate boss said, "A CEO has a right to make those rules, so work with me on this!"

I don't object to underage drinking, but I fully understand how a boarding school has to have rules about that.  I expect my kid to realize that as well and obey the rules if he wants to stay in the school.

42
The Troubled Teen Industry / Coercive "therapy"
« on: February 04, 2007, 11:31:41 AM »
And, Lactose, you're speaking as one who knows so much about all of it?

Yes, putting a kid into a program is coercion. Once in, the level of coercion is what needs to be examined.  It can be abused- or not.

43
The Troubled Teen Industry / Coercive "therapy"
« on: February 04, 2007, 11:15:59 AM »
It's not just as DESIRE not to get caught, but an appreciation of the CONSEQUENCES of getting caught.  I think it is an important lesson.
When you are in a regular boarding school, of course you might want to drink in the dorm.  You also might think you can do it without getting caught.  The important thing to learn is that the consequences of getting caught are not worth doing it, even though you want to.  It never mattered to me that my son WANTED to drink, drive the cars without a license or skip school, what mattered to me was that he couldn't appreciate the consequences of these actions.

44
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 09:13:19 AM »
Re: the moving of seats in the groups.  It wasn't just for yelling at someone.  It was for addressing them at all.  In the family groups we had, it a kid wanted to address their parent, they moved across the circle.

45
Facility Question and Answers / The Carlbrook thread
« on: February 04, 2007, 08:46:24 AM »
I know this is a fine distinction, but I am not crediting the Carlbrook PROGRAM with helping my son. I am crediting his time away from home (and 2N wilderness), the opportunity to think, write and reflect on where he wanted to go with his life and how he had gotten off track, the opportunity to live in a close community and make close friends without the relationships being based on competition, social factors or thrill-seeking, and a good therapist.
The therapists were degreed and many were licensed.  My son's was a licensed psychologist and he was very involved with the kids day in and day out.  All the advisors were.  

Our son could write to us (he didn't usually because he was mad at us), he could ask for an email to be sent to us, he could call us every other week and his therapist was very good about conveying messages to us about what he wanted us to send or what he wanted to tell us (our son conveyed that this was done in every instance).  Parents could send treats for the group for a birthday or holiday.  

It IS CEDU based- no question about that.  However, it sounds to me like a lot of the CEDU workshops were softened.  They slept, were well fed, and overall I don't think they were as confrontational.

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