Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

hey yall, it's not more nor less than re-education, in the mao-ist/lenin-ist style. let's just abandon critical thinking, and become comfortable true believers.. let us abandon freedom and dignity, and become hive-dwellers.. let us take for our selves the theology of the truly righteous, that we may go forth, and be as dim bulbs in the land of caana, henceforth, shall we be known as the people of hunh? and what?

suicide is not a light topic to me ..first, an aunt, then her daughter, then my sister.. no, it's not a light topic.. program is not beneficial to anyone , ever, in my opinion. had i to do things over, i would have listened more, suspended judgement more..my sister WAS telling the truth, although in a convoluted fashion. if my hindsight is of any worth, and i hope it is, here's what i would do..i would decide that this is what god has placed before me, this moment, this life, deal with it as best i can.. then.. following the dictates of first aid as i know it.. 'piss em off, then make 'em laugh' that means to engage them by whatever means, on their turf. seek and find their will to live, to fight..walk and talk, cook, do stupid things together...recognize that you may be dealing with wounds that you cannot see, or understand.. get yourself out of the picture.. a human is far more complicated than you or i or anyone can truly understand.. do not invalidize.. this person is beyond your power to 'fix', it is not your right to do so. listen and consider, especially when to do so might hurt your pride... respond as an adult, to an adult.. dis-abuse yourself of the notion that he is the crazy one, and you the sane one.. it's funner than hell to see people win, in life, love, anyway or place you can name.. find ways to do that.

reply to anonymous guest.. re my opinion is stupid and sucks.. yeah buddy! such an urbane response! your reply is , to me, in my opinion entirely symptomatic of the general decline in the capacity for reason.
as a society, how far we have fallen! and to me you epitomize that  ! these programs damage people don't you 'get it'

i suppose i will tell some of my story here.. never knew big frank, but damn sorry he's gone somehow that affects me too. consider this in memoriam. i have believed for mANY YEARS THAT I WAS UNIQUELY VULNERABLE TO THE SEED. not so, i begin to see. it wasn't until i read a book on brainwashing that i began to see that my reaction to the seed wasn't character flaw in me, but rather a predictable response , physiologic, not mental.
my story such as it is, and incomplete . at age 13, i was lured by a corrupt family physician into a kind of cult.. 'primal therapy" see website janov, arthur.. that cult is based on the voluntary destruction of personality, which i can tell you  is exhausting work! then somehow , the seed got hold of me.. call to parent.. he'll be deadinsaneorinjail.. the familiar route(yeah pun intended) in any event thirty years later i begin to learn the extent of the damage, and that it wasn't my imagination. have been dx'd ptsd, as so many of you have been, and still astonished at the level of criminality and sheer malice involved.. hitler jugund indeed! somehow, oddly, so many who post here have retained their humanity in spite of it all.. as an aside, that gives me a foundation for my embrace of catholicism...(hey lady! i never said i was a GOOD catholic.. just that  i was one!) others in this forum have mentioned or alluded to psycho-physical symptom, and i wonder how many out there have suffered as have we. i see a consistent thread of ruined relationships, both personal and occupational , and social. i have lived in an adaptive way since then, have a few intruiging quirks,(nothing perrverse mind you, just things like an odd aversion to clocks, like that).. it oddly, also gives me the foundation for my conservatism. in that i believe that each of us is our own best judge, each of us in individual relationship to god , and that the highest value in society is individual well being, no man can be a responsible participant in society unless he is also free to reject it.. forgive the rant, one and all, (i just love diatribe and polemic)(it's a racial characteristic, i cain't hep it!) also too (lousiana vernacular) herein i've read that so many believe that art barker, et al,"had good intentions" or "meant well" god spare me the saints.. i don't buy it.. no mateer what one believes i think it incumbent "first do no harm" if to follow "good intentions requires lying, co-ercion, subornation of witnesses, perjury, planting evidence, day in and day out physical and mental brutality.. well i refuse to believe good or honest intention  to big frank and all the others
responses welcome.. to our tormentors many of us look for remorse but that may never be.. forgiveness is a double edged sword, you may have it, but only if you admit that you need it

yes greg there is something, many things i remember... most importantly it's been many years and much study.. we were drummed and drilled mto believe that no one repeat no one would believe us that we were merely drug addled (perhaps drug riddled sounds better, cant't decide) teens, whose word and testoimony were forever impeached, that if we protested or told word would leak out about us, and we would be unemployable, shunned, pariahs, as would our families.. to any i strongly recommend sargents book physiology of brainwashing and conversion... until i read that, i believed that i was dealing with psychological matters within myself, and not an inclusive psychophysical phenomena... grateful for this forum

i wasn't in ft lauderdale, i was in dade vcounty, nd i saw beatings, and as eudora so elenglty decribed a "beating"  can as well be produced by psychological means as any other, after, a broken bone doesn't hurt as bad as a broken will.. yes i've taken my share of physical injury too.. to all, 'guest' seems to have a foul keyboard, no? pls  whomever you are, if you are going to use profane spech, at least makwe it good :flame: d!

reply to greg and eudora and others... so amny things come to m,ind, difficult to sort them out.. sleep deprivation, being forced to sit or kneel for hours and hours, learning to 'sleep' in a folding chair while people were screaming in my face... the sure knowledge that they.. whoever 'they were i didn't know, had bought teachers, judges, psychiatrists, cops... where did i come from... odd question in the existential sense... i guess for purposes of discussion i came from dade county, seed, tropical park, '72'73 sean   thanks for book reference, i recommend physiology of brainwashing and conversion, auth. wm. dsargent, pub late 50's  thank you all  rssmddn