I'd rather do a month of work details then 2 days in a row of staring at the wall being monitored.
I'd go apeshit. That's real fucking scary. Tim brace is overseeing that. It's a fucking POW camp. Hell i'd rather be in a 72 hour caroline rap than be told I was on an indefinite stare at the wall program.
Please elaborate on how you got put on one of those. Was it before or after work details?.
TWO DAYS??? Try two weeks, minimum. One guy was in there for nine months IN A ROW.
And a repeat from the other thread:
about the workshops:
Is there any role-playing? I mean, something where the staff assigns a character for you to act out?
Tons. I can't think of it all but there's a bit in every workshop and some in regular groups if you're in a Sally group or an Andy group. In Amicitia, you push people out of the circle of friendship. In Animus, you go to your own funeral/read your obituaries/die/get buried/rise from the dead/etc. You also have to act out your negative sculpture (you know, shooting yourself in the head, having your legs open like a whore, snorting coke, whatever your issue is). You also fight for a spot on the "lifeboats." In Teneo, you go from being born to turning into a rose or something weird like that the last day. Also in Teneo, you have to act out 3 of your "roles" and use people in your peer group as other characters. I can't remember the other bits.
In the Amicitia, how physical is the circle of exclusion?
I don't know about other people's experience but in mine it wasn't like kids were getting punched or anything. You know, you'd shove them out and stuff but everyone was pretty half-hearted about it. I don't know, those acting-it-out scenarios never "worked" for me.
Are there horeshoe-style groups where you only get "feedback"? How harsh does it get?
Yeah, in the first two workshops. Integritas is the harshest probably. You get "monster," "victim," "pathetic," "worthless," "unlovable," "disgusting," etc written on a card and taped on your shirt. I've heard some really fucked-up feedback in those circles...I'm trying to think of the worst..."cum-dumpster," "n****r-lover," etc...or people just bringing up other people's disclosures and using them against them.
Are there exercise where you call yourself names? In which you call your parents names?
I think you kind of call yourself names the whole time with your negative statements, lies, etc. You yell at your parents (aka the floor) in Integritas. You hit/yell at/rage against your parents (aka pillows) in Veneratio.
In the Animus, what's the "pillow fighting" about? What other bioenergetic exercises are there? Are you ever restrained under a sheet by the group? Do they do the one where you have to bite towel and pull on it?
Raise arms over head, brings hands down on pillow and sort of make it an entire-body type of exercise. Yell. Fight Night in Teneo is the one where you pull on the towel and scream and push against your peers. No biting though. Can't remember the other bioenergetics.
They make you watch Requiem for a Dream, right? Other stuff? Under-age kids watching this?
You watch like the last 10 minutes of RFAD in Veneratio. Most kids are 18 by the time they graduate but some aren't. I heard they recently got rid of that part though because word got out and they didn't want to get in trouble. It was a pretty horrifying 10 minutes...double-headed dildoes assfucking Jennifer Connelly, shock treatment on the old woman...revolting. It was effective, though.
about request group:
Do people get called names? Yelled at?
Not random named. Like you can't call someone an asshole - it has to be "you're ACTING LIKE an asshole." People do get railed a lot though by staff and peers. Sometimes it's in a constructive way, like you can tell they're yelling because they care but sometimes it's just spiteful, angry bullshit.
How harsh does the "feedback" get?
Very. There's really no other way to say that. Very, very, very harsh.
Are people ever supposed to yell out the floor?
All the time. It's called "running anger."
about punishments in general
How often are you supposed to do honor lists? Just in workshops?
In workshops, before workshops, in suspension, on action plans, if your adviser suspects you've done something bad.
Do you ever have to do manual labor? If so what kind of work? For how long at a time? Only if you break a major rule, or...?
Out-of-school suspensioners work with the maintenance crew - gardening, mowing, digging up tree stumps, raking, etc. And of course everyone cleans. Everyone is always effing cleaning. Wake up, clean your dorm, clean your mod. Before you go to sleep, clean your dorm. After dinner, crews either run jugs (deliver water jugs to various locations around campus while carrying them on their backs and running), cleaning the dining hall/kitchen, or running/cleaning the Commons. You get a crew or multiple crews for minor infractions (didn't wear a belt, bra strap showing, messy dorm, disrespect, cutting across the grass, swearing, spitting without asking, leaving a personal item unattended, late homework, talking back to a staff, etc.). Suspension is for more serious things (lying, cheating, etc.) or if you need "time alone to work on your emotions" or whatever.
And no, we were never restrained by the group with a sheet. The workshops sucked but I don't think they crossed a line. I mean...ugh, it's complicated. I think so much of what went on in there was unnecessary and sometimes damaging but I don't think they did anything ABUSIVE, you know? Like, nothing that was illegal or crazy like those psycho therapists that stage fake birth canals and accidentally smother the kids (does anyone remember that case from a few years ago?).
I think the problem with workshops is that they're scripted. They're not individualized for the specific kids in the specific workshop. It's like manufacturing 20 extra-large t-shirts for 20 kids. You need to make them extra-large because the kids are all different sizes and this way, every kid will at least have clothing on his back even if he or she is swimming in fabric. It's better than to have a kid not be able to fit in the t-shirt, right? So everyone's wearing these extra-large t-shirts. For some kids, the t-shirts fit fine. For others, it's a little uncomfortable, you know, baggy and annoying but okay. For some, it goes down to their knees and when they go outside, it doesn't protect them from the sun and they have this awful weird-shaped sunburn because of the way the shirt fits and...okay. Never mind. This metaphor sucks. Sorry about this, guys.
But basically, they're doing a one-size-fits-all workshop when they need to think about what is going to work FOR and WITH the kids in the workshop. They need to spend more time making 20 different t-shirts in the right size for the right kid. The problem with the workshops is that they do EVERYTHING. They know that some kids are visual learners/experiential learners/etc. So they need to reach each kid. So they throw in some acting-it-out exercises, some bioenergetic exercises, some visualizations, some feedback circles, some written-out tools, some lectures, some writing assignments...basically throwing in everything and the kitchen sink because they know that everything won't affect everyone but SOMETHING will affect EVERYONE, you know? So they need to cover all of their bases.
The problem is that the kids don't know this. They think they're supposed to "get" EVERYTHING. So when they can't connect with something, they think something's wrong with them and fake it and feel like shit. Or, worse, they try to FORCE themselves to do it, to feel it, and end up breaking themselves a little bit. Or the staff try to force it and break something. It's just bad.
Sorry, I sound like an idiot. But hopefully you get what I'm saying.
I'd rather do a month of work details then 2 days in a row of staring at the wall being monitored.
I'd go apeshit. That's real fucking scary. Tim brace is overseeing that. It's a fucking POW camp. Hell i'd rather be in a 72 hour caroline rap than be told I was on an indefinite stare at the wall program.
Please elaborate on how you got put on one of those. Was it before or after work details?.
TWO DAYS??? Try two weeks, minimum. One guy was in there for nine months IN A ROW.
And a repeat from the other thread:
about the workshops:
Is there any role-playing? I mean, something where the staff assigns a character for you to act out?
Tons. I can't think of it all but there's a bit in every workshop and some in regular groups if you're in a Sally group or an Andy group. In Amicitia, you push people out of the circle of friendship. In Animus, you go to your own funeral/read your obituaries/die/get buried/rise from the dead/etc. You also have to act out your negative sculpture (you know, shooting yourself in the head, having your legs open like a whore, snorting coke, whatever your issue is). You also fight for a spot on the "lifeboats." In Teneo, you go from being born to turning into a rose or something weird like that the last day. Also in Teneo, you have to act out 3 of your "roles" and use people in your peer group as other characters. I can't remember the other bits.
In the Amicitia, how physical is the circle of exclusion?
I don't know about other people's experience but in mine it wasn't like kids were getting punched or anything. You know, you'd shove them out and stuff but everyone was pretty half-hearted about it. I don't know, those acting-it-out scenarios never "worked" for me.
Are there horeshoe-style groups where you only get "feedback"? How harsh does it get?
Yeah, in the first two workshops. Integritas is the harshest probably. You get "monster," "victim," "pathetic," "worthless," "unlovable," "disgusting," etc written on a card and taped on your shirt. I've heard some really fucked-up feedback in those circles...I'm trying to think of the worst..."cum-dumpster," "n****r-lover," etc...or people just bringing up other people's disclosures and using them against them.
Are there exercise where you call yourself names? In which you call your parents names?
I think you kind of call yourself names the whole time with your negative statements, lies, etc. You yell at your parents (aka the floor) in Integritas. You hit/yell at/rage against your parents (aka pillows) in Veneratio.
In the Animus, what's the "pillow fighting" about? What other bioenergetic exercises are there? Are you ever restrained under a sheet by the group? Do they do the one where you have to bite towel and pull on it?
Raise arms over head, brings hands down on pillow and sort of make it an entire-body type of exercise. Yell. Fight Night in Teneo is the one where you pull on the towel and scream and push against your peers. No biting though. Can't remember the other bioenergetics.
They make you watch Requiem for a Dream, right? Other stuff? Under-age kids watching this?
You watch like the last 10 minutes of RFAD in Veneratio. Most kids are 18 by the time they graduate but some aren't. I heard they recently got rid of that part though because word got out and they didn't want to get in trouble. It was a pretty horrifying 10 minutes...double-headed dildoes assfucking Jennifer Connelly, shock treatment on the old woman...revolting. It was effective, though.
about request group:
Do people get called names? Yelled at?
Not random named. Like you can't call someone an asshole - it has to be "you're ACTING LIKE an asshole." People do get railed a lot though by staff and peers. Sometimes it's in a constructive way, like you can tell they're yelling because they care but sometimes it's just spiteful, angry bullshit.
How harsh does the "feedback" get?
Very. There's really no other way to say that. Very, very, very harsh.
Are people ever supposed to yell out the floor?
All the time. It's called "running anger."
about punishments in general
How often are you supposed to do honor lists? Just in workshops?
In workshops, before workshops, in suspension, on action plans, if your adviser suspects you've done something bad.
Do you ever have to do manual labor? If so what kind of work? For how long at a time? Only if you break a major rule, or...?
Out-of-school suspensioners work with the maintenance crew - gardening, mowing, digging up tree stumps, raking, etc. And of course everyone cleans. Everyone is always effing cleaning. Wake up, clean your dorm, clean your mod. Before you go to sleep, clean your dorm. After dinner, crews either run jugs (deliver water jugs to various locations around campus while carrying them on their backs and running), cleaning the dining hall/kitchen, or running/cleaning the Commons. You get a crew or multiple crews for minor infractions (didn't wear a belt, bra strap showing, messy dorm, disrespect, cutting across the grass, swearing, spitting without asking, leaving a personal item unattended, late homework, talking back to a staff, etc.). Suspension is for more serious things (lying, cheating, etc.) or if you need "time alone to work on your emotions" or whatever.
And no, we were never restrained by the group with a sheet. The workshops sucked but I don't think they crossed a line. I mean...ugh, it's complicated. I think so much of what went on in there was unnecessary and sometimes damaging but I don't think they did anything ABUSIVE, you know? Like, nothing that was illegal or crazy like those psycho therapists that stage fake birth canals and accidentally smother the kids (does anyone remember that case from a few years ago?).
I think the problem with workshops is that they're scripted. They're not individualized for the specific kids in the specific workshop. It's like manufacturing 20 extra-large t-shirts for 20 kids. You need to make them extra-large because the kids are all different sizes and this way, every kid will at least have clothing on his back even if he or she is swimming in fabric. It's better than to have a kid not be able to fit in the t-shirt, right? So everyone's wearing these extra-large t-shirts. For some kids, the t-shirts fit fine. For others, it's a little uncomfortable, you know, baggy and annoying but okay. For some, it goes down to their knees and when they go outside, it doesn't protect them from the sun and they have this awful weird-shaped sunburn because of the way the shirt fits and...okay. Never mind. This metaphor sucks. Sorry about this, guys.
But basically, they're doing a one-size-fits-all workshop when they need to think about what is going to work FOR and WITH the kids in the workshop. They need to spend more time making 20 different t-shirts in the right size for the right kid. The problem with the workshops is that they do EVERYTHING. They know that some kids are visual learners/experiential learners/etc. So they need to reach each kid. So they throw in some acting-it-out exercises, some bioenergetic exercises, some visualizations, some feedback circles, some written-out tools, some lectures, some writing assignments...basically throwing in everything and the kitchen sink because they know that everything won't affect everyone but SOMETHING will affect EVERYONE, you know? So they need to cover all of their bases.
The problem is that the kids don't know this. They think they're supposed to "get" EVERYTHING. So when they can't connect with something, they think something's wrong with them and fake it and feel like shit. Or, worse, they try to FORCE themselves to do it, to feel it, and end up breaking themselves a little bit. Or the staff try to force it and break something. It's just bad.
Sorry, I sound like an idiot. But hopefully you get what I'm saying.
What I get is that this is RMA/CEDU/Mount Bachelor. Same stuff, different names.
The original post seemed to be about what Carlbrook is about, with many suggestions that it is a CEDU spin off. Clearly this is the case. Not just a spin off but with the same actors. Tim Brace was at CEDU, then RMA, then Mount Bachelor and now Carlbrook. So it shouldn't be too surprising that the same stuff Tim Brace used elsewhere, he brought with him to use at Carlbrook.
The above poster is listing off what went on in the "Propheets, Workshops and Raps" at CEDU/RMA. The same stuff that was derived from Synanon, EST and LifeSpring that Mel Wasserman, the founder of the CEDU schools stole for his own use.
Earlier in the thread some names were thrown out. Glenn Bender, Lon Woodbury, Doug Kim-Brown and of course, Tim Brace. All were at Rocky Mountain Academy (RMA) in the 80's. When I attended RMA in 1984, Glenn Bender gave me my strip search and was the director of admissions. If he ever had anything to do with the academics, I knew nothing of that. He might have assigned students their classes. Lon Woodbury had an office on campus. He was selling himself out to parents as a completely neutral and independent placement consultant, yet had his office on campus and just as he was then, today he still touts himself as being independent. Doug Kim-Brown transferred to RMA from CEDU in 1984-85. He was quickly in charge of running a mid-level "family", doing group therapy and running propheets and workshops. Back then he was fairly milquetoast and quiet, though later he became much louder and abusive. Tim Brace was always an emotional basket case who loved young boys in the literal sense. He did indeed like taking young boys to his personal residence or office for some quiet one-on-one smushing and affection. And he told the same story about sucking cock for money quite often. Usually any propheet he was running and quite a number of raps. And he copped to some serious criminal activity as well as heavy drug usage.
It sounds like Carlbrook had the exact same abusive and humiliating "raps" as we did. AT RMA/CEDU you wrote out rap requests, got called to raps, sat in a circle of chairs, had to switch seats to be across the room for indictments, and most indictments were generally petty, loud and abusive. People were called names, degraded, made to cry. Crying was basically the single-best way to get an indictment to stop. As though making you cry was a victory. Girls were routinely called sluts, whores, pieces of meat and worse. If a girl had any sexual activity in her background, she was screwed from start to finish. We were made to run our anger, either towards someone, or sometimes a person in the room would simply act as a surrogate parent so you could yell at them, but just as often we yelled at the floor or a Kleenex box.
RMA/CEDU had the same one-size fits-all program style. Everyone got the exact same treatment/therapy/counseling/raps/propheets. All students were made to feel equally horrible about their pasts despite huge differences. Practically everyone was told at one time or another that they would win up deal or in jail if they left the program even though virtually no students (When I was there) were suicidal or criminals. But because students were often compelled to cop to increasingly worse and worse things about their lives, most of which were untrue and never happened, but just to get the heat off or look good, staff may have believed they were one step from the grave or prison. But more likely they just like saying dead or in jail because it is mean spirited.
It also sounds like Carlbrook had the same no-boundaries "affection" and "touching" as RMA/CEDU. I imagine you smushed together on the floor, leaning up against each other, hugging often, etc. And that not participating was considered being "resistant" and could get you indicted in raps or punished in some way.
Carlbrook seems to have many of the cruel and unusual punishments RMA/CEDU had. Endless days spent staring at a wall and doing writing assignments to disclose past wrong doings. Often made up by students so it looked like they were being honest, because to say you hadn't done anything else besides what you were being immediately punished for would never, and was never believed. And of course all punishments included manual labor.
Another issue was the interaction with therapists. When I was at CEDU/RMA in the 80's, they didn't have actual psychologist with degrees and credentials. Apparently in the 90's they wised up and generally found the least qualified people to fill these positions who would be content to get paid and not actually participate directly in the programs. Or ask any questions about the programs either. Just the least curious person possible. In my day, the untrained staff were all you got. And from what Mount Bachelor disclosed when they were recently shut down, their "real" therapist had no understanding of what went on in the program, saw students rarely, and really had no routine contact with students unless parents specifically asked for that. And of course paid through the nose for it. So basically they were there so their sign on the door could be seen by parents who would say, "Look, they have a real trained psychologist on staff." All of the programs who claim to have a real shrink seem to not use that shrink in the program much.
Carlbrook does appear to use all the same terminology as RMA/CEDU/Mount Bachelor, but with some different names. Not surprising. And this is done to make discussing the programs outside of the program with non-program members incredibly difficult. Most police officers and child protective services people would probably consider you a bit off-balance if you started explaining what you were forced to go through and endure, using the terminology from your program. Stumps would be easy to explain, but just saying stumps would get a blank stare in response. The word propheet doesn't mean anything to anyone. Cults need their own language, not just to make the program seem more special to the participants, but also to make it harder to describe to authorities. Because they will be telling the authorities you are a problem teen with a great deal of emotional and mental issues, and talking nonsense won't help you at all when you start spouting off with Honor Lists (Which sounds great, wish my kid was on the Honor List) and Veneratio which is not a real word. It just doesn't translate well. And not just to authorities, but also to parents. Your parents are already exhausted dealing with you by the time they send you there. So when you cry out for help and they try and listen to you, if you sound like you are saying, "Yo momma, you shizzle is fo dope in my hommies hot spot." Parents eyes glaze over, they have no clue what you are saying, lose interest and just hope you stay and do the program. They won't hear, "Mom, dad...This place is a cult! They are using attack therapy, based on Synanon, LifeSpring and EST to get me to disclose things I never did by using group peer pressure utilizing humiliation and verbal abuse. I feel very uncomfortable that I cannot communicate with you any time I need to, or that you cannot communicate with me any time you need to, and that the little we do get to communicate with each other is strictly monitored..." Kids don't get this far with mom and dad. And their vocabulary is so messed up by the cult, they really can't clearly explain things. And by the time they leave, it's too late. Twenty five years later my parents still can't accept that the program was bad. And I am quite capable of describing exactly what went on in the most clear and concise of language. And this is why the cults/programs can get away with it. By the time you'd be able to describe the abuse, afford to bring a lawsuit, odds are the statute of limitations is long past. And who would believe you?
Bans was also a CEDU/RMA/Mount Bachelor product. Pulls up by students was common. Ratting out on friends was encouraged, even by fellow students. You could get put on bans for not ratting on your friends often enough to please everyone. Students were not allowed to put anyone on bans, though on occasion students would recommend and staff would agree, especially if the suggestion was made by an older student. And older students were most often the most abusive of the students in raps. However no student outdid any of the power staff. Most students were reluctant to indict in raps, but once someone did, usually a "look good" everyone jumped in who had two brain cells working because keeping the heat on someone else was better than it possibly turning on you. And this is where "needs" came from. Taking it out on someone else, saying anything, true or not just to keep the heat on someone else. It wasn't personal, it was survival, and nearly everyone did it. Bans were also very arbitrary. I had a staff walk by on Christmas Eve and place me on bans from my closest friends, with no explanation, while gifts were being handed out. And then just walked away. People from CEDU have described abusive staff walking up while people appear to be enjoying themselves and ordering someone to go sit somewhere and do writing assignments, for no reason except that they had such power. Such actions scared students. It made you constantly question innocent activities. You might ask you friend, "Are we spending too much time together? We were smushing yesterday and I think we ate breakfast together, so maybe we should go find someone else to hang out with just so we don't get put on bans." Because bans could last months. If the staff who put you on bans can't remember how long you've been on them, they could say no just because they think you haven't been banned the "minimum" length of time. Or they just might not like you and keep them going. Because they had that power.
So I am going to cast my vote and say Carlbrook is a CEDU/RMA/Mount Bachelor clone. Some minor alterations, but basically the exact same abusive and humiliating program run, naturally, by the same untrained and abusive staff who ran all the other programs. In real life they call it Six Degrees of Separation. When it comes to these programs, it is closer to Two Degrees. If you don't know this phrase, it means everyone you meet, even total strangers, if they were to list everyone they have ever met, basically they have met someone, who knew someone, who knew someone else, who knows you. Or is related to you. In the Troubled Teen Industry, it only takes knowing a couple of staff before someone says, "Hey, they were at my school too!"
Happy Holidays everyone!
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