Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
On 2005-02-07 07:06:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
"not a cool reply to someone in recovery- someone send him an "Emily Post" manner book, please. ::puke:: "
On 2005-02-06 16:17:00, Fran wrote:
My brother tried to get me to go to one of his cult religious meetings THE WAY many years ago and I made every excuse I could find never to attend...knowing that I never want to put myself in a position where I do not have control.
Anyone feel the same way?
O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist
My brother tried to get me to go to one of his cult religious meetings THE WAY many years ago and I made every excuse I could find never to attend...knowing that I never want to put myself in a position where I do not have control.
Anyone feel the same way?"
On 2005-02-08 06:45:00, Stripe wrote:
For some people, NOT THE TRULY DRUG ADDICTED SUPPORTERS, the Seed was sold in the same fashion - taking advantge of fearful people, creating self-doubt and dependency. Here it is, you can't live without it and if you don't take it, you'll endup deadinsaneorinjail. What bullshit.
They know that it is human nature to take up causes whereby a man may oppress his neighbor, no matter how unjustly. ... Hence they have had no trouble in finding men who would preach the damnability and heresy of the new doctrine from the very pulpit.
--Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer
On 2005-02-15 09:24:00, marshall wrote:
Now, my battle is with caffeine. I've found that I'm very prone to become addicted to it. I've tried to use it the way I do alcohol...but without success. I'm beginning to think I'll have to go cold turkey. Is there a 12 step program for caffeine addicts? Should we throw Juan Valdez & Mrs.Olson in prison and thow away the key?
"
On 2005-02-16 07:51:00, GregFL wrote:
Now I smoke mullet, much more bonglike!
:smokin:
The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
However, lighting the beak and taking a hit out of their ass just became to cumbersome.
On 2005-02-21 21:36:00, Stripe wrote:
I don't know which was worse, The Seed of 1973
or the Chrisitan church cult of 1975
"
I have visited churches where I either just didn't sense God's presence (I know...He's everywhere) and others where I strongly sensed the presence of His adversary at work. (i left in a hurry!) These days, My God comes in many different denominations, but not 10's and 20's. I shy away from the big 'palace' type church buildings. I can't justify putting out that kind of cash on decorations when there are millions of people scratching around for food. When Jesus walked the Earth, he was into building people. Seems like that's a good example for us. So...where am I headed with this?.. I don't know, just thought I'd throw out some stuff to consider.
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
On 2005-09-18 00:43:00, Thom wrote:
"I took the 'ALL' to mean things like:
Putting up with a bunch of snot-nosed, arrogant, lying brats;
Getting smeared in the press;
Staff pretty much devoting their lives to the cause;
Fighting off government entanglements;
Expending much time and energy into the lives of hundreds of kids, knowing few would get it.
Stuff like that
and a question for you. What lives were sacrificed?"
On 2005-09-18 05:18:00, Thom wrote:
"Good morning Greg.
It's been about 30 years now. At what point does one begin to take responsibility for one's own life issues? I'm sorry your life was devastated by The Fort Lauderdale Seed. My experience was different from yours. I can't change that, nor would I wish to. I hope your day gets better."
On 2005-09-18 05:06:00, SteveHHMD wrote:
I don't know anyone who uses drugs who is happy.
I drink alcohol in moderation, don't do anything else,
Can casual drug users be happy? I don't know. I see a lot of apparently well-adjusted people who smoke marijuana.
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]
On 2005-10-04 15:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Say what??????????? :???: :???: :???: :???: "
On 2005-10-04 15:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think I will close the shop early tonight and go home to that good pie."
On 2005-10-04 15:13:00, Thom wrote:
"let me handle this one, guys Blah, Blah, typicalseedlingresponse Blah, stepcraft Yadda, Yadda, crystal ball Yadda, Blah, Blah, how do you know you would be deadinsainorinjail? Blah, Yadda, baggage smaggage Yadda, Yadda, Blah, you were never addicted to start with! Blah, Blah, Yadda, art Barker nazi Yadda, Koreanmindcontrol Yadda, Blah, brainwashed Blah, Blah, brainwashed Yadda, torture young children Yadda, Yadda, wooden chairs 12 hours! Blah, Blah, define success! Blah, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda thankyousomuchforposting openforum Blah, Blah, Blah, yourexperienceisasvalidasours Yadda, Yadda, Yadda :rofl: :grin:
On 2005-10-04 19:54:00, ChrisL wrote:How about "why we sing Jingle Bells...because every day you're straight, it's like Christmas!!!" Hi Chris, wow, it seems like we were on about the same schedule there. Most of mine was over a divorce. It was right at 5 years to really accept it, and reach the point where I could honestly say I had moved on. I remember when in '91 an AA buddy suggested that it might take that long, and thinking there was no way I could survive that long with this pain! What I had no concept of back then was the fact that pain / anger diminish over time. (I wanted to be over it NOW!!)
""you know Thom, you can 12 step your anger management problems as well.
Problem is, you get about the same percentage of success...zero."
Between the 2nd & 3rd year of my sobreity I found myself extremely angry, never really figured out why... just was. On the encouragement of my now x-wife I went to a BCSW & a Psychiatrist for about a year. I remember they both told me in different ways to move on, I did not want to hear it then, but I do remember I felt better... and then it seemed like in the 4th & 5th year I came to accept things as they were nothing more nothing less just what they were. It took me another 9 years to finally begin to make some changes & a Hurricane helped expidite the process alot...
But you know what? I am not angry, just thankful like we used to say, "every day above ground is a good day" & "I'd rather wake up with bad breath than no breath" anytime...
"
On 2005-10-04 17:30:00, GregFL wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-04 15:13:00, Thom wrote:
"let me handle this one, guys Blah, Blah, typicalseedlingresponse Blah, stepcraft Yadda, Yadda, crystal ball Yadda, Blah, Blah, how do you know you would be deadinsainorinjail? Blah, Yadda, baggage smaggage Yadda, Yadda, Blah, you were never addicted to start with! Blah, Blah, Yadda, art Barker nazi Yadda, Koreanmindcontrol Yadda, Blah, brainwashed Blah, Blah, brainwashed Yadda, torture young children Yadda, Yadda, wooden chairs 12 hours! Blah, Blah, define success! Blah, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda thankyousomuchforposting openforum Blah, Blah, Blah, yourexperienceisasvalidasours Yadda, Yadda, Yadda :rofl: :grin: "
On 2005-10-05 04:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hungry but too much cholesterol in your diet?
Try eggbeaters anonymous. I hear their success rate is up to .001%.
A marked improvement!
:smile:
On 2005-10-05 04:39:00, Thom wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 04:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hungry but too much cholesterol in your diet?
Try eggbeaters anonymous. I hear their success rate is up to .001%.
A marked improvement!
:smile: "
On 2005-10-05 07:44:00, SummerOf72 wrote:
"Thom,
Great effort to disguise lack of insight and capacity to take personal responsibility in your life with juvenile attempts at ridicule.
Thats cool if it works for you!
Upward and onward :smile:"
On 2005-10-05 11:02:00, GregFL wrote:Newflash for you. That controntational in your face, attack the messenger, insult and degrade people you don't agree with - style of communication was anti-social and inappropriate then as well as now. It only works in the confines of a closed system where the people have been conditioned to believe that it is normal and productive when in fact it is not.
"You know Thom, I don't know how to say this nicely, so I will just say it. You are a snide little dipshit that tries to use "humor" to degrade people. You aren't funny, and rarely if ever do you make any point worth repeating.
Droll on.
"
On 2005-10-05 11:13:00, ChrisL wrote:
Also it was sooo easy, Major Props Ginger!! the Internet Guru!!! Thanks,
Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the
tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
On 2005-10-05 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just can't help yourself can you Thom? Have you noticed that most people get along well here, no matter what side of the issue they are on, except maybe a couple of insulting anons and well, you?
Ever wonder why that is?
"
On 2005-10-05 12:08:00, GregFL wrote:You know Greg, I don't know how to say this nicely, so I will just say it. You are a snide little dipshit that tries to use "humor" to degrade people. You aren't funny, and rarely if ever do you make any point worth repeating.
"figure it out yourself. The clues are all over the place.
"
They know that it is human nature to take up causes whereby a man may oppress his neighbor, no matter how unjustly. ... Hence they have had no trouble in finding men who would preach the damnability and heresy of the new doctrine from the very pulpit.
--Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer
On 2005-10-05 12:21:00, GregFL wrote:
"I swear, you would think this guy was 11 years old or something.
"
On 2005-10-05 12:21:00, GregFL wrote:
"I swear, you would think this guy was 11 years old or something.
"
On 2005-10-05 12:31:00, Thom wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 12:21:00, GregFL wrote:
"I swear, you would think this guy was 11 years old or something.
"
I was!....weren't you?"
On 2005-10-05 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 12:21:00, GregFL wrote:
"I swear, you would think this guy was 11 years old or something.
"
Mentally, he probably is. That's another thing the Stepcult does---arrests the development of a healthy, adult personality. Not only does personal growth end where Stepping begins, but regression to an infantile level is often evident in the personalities of Groupsters. Just question the validity of some of the Stepcult doctrine and you'll you'll hear so much juvenile whining, you'll think you were in a nursery right before nappy time."
On 2005-10-05 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So you say.
"
On 2005-10-05 12:42:00, Thom wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So you say.
"
So you say, so I say....who said that, anyway? Some clown with a bag over his head."
On 2005-10-06 10:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thom,
I had no expectation of modifying your behavior. It not my job and I have better uses of my time.
I only want to put on the table what I viewed as your empty technique (ridicule vs content, and an attempt to self identify yourself as representing a group concensus which is not the case) and lack of repect for others.
Now back to a focus on an learning through an open exchange ideas.
Somewhere I read, if peaple dont have points of disagreement it means they are not thinking for themselves. The processing of disagreement fosters the examination of different perspectives and a closer look on thier own positions when crafting a defense. None of this would take place without "mixing it up" in a open forum.
Great forum! "
On 2005-10-06 14:02:00, GregFL wrote:
"Oh please.
Thom, did you skip kindergarten the day they were to teach you to play well with the other kiddies?
"
Liz... here here. I graduated the month before you came in. I did go back after the St Rd 84 facility was shut down, and the Seed had become simply a counseling center back near Andrews Ave. I met with Libby and she brought out Michele (Barker). I was in the navy by then and wore my senior enlisted dress whites. Libby just beamed to see me and I could really feel some pride from them. I was welcomed wholeheartedly, and gave me a warm & fuzzy to be there. I entered the Seed 4 days before Christmas 1971 and graduated in March 1973. After about eight months on the program I was selected to staff. I learned real inner peace there and learned the tools I would need to help me have a happy life and leave the world a little better for having been in it. I learned respect for myself and others.
It made boot camp 4 years later a piece of cake, believe me!
I hope somebody will see this post. I decided today that I was going to try to find out if the Seed still existed. I looked up the Seed and found the Mustard Seed in St Pete and called up. It was a drug rehab, but not what I was looking for. I just wanted to reach out and touch someone. I have had dreams over the years about the Seed, still sing the song and smile. Today I was trying to picture the staff and what they would look like at 55-65 years old and if they were still there. I felt the Seed helped to change my life. It brought an awareness that I didn't have and understanding of ME. It helped me to sort out what was "truth" and find out who I was. It was my first opportunity to find that I could be me and could have friends. As I grew and learned from life's lessons, I was able to accept myself the way I am...well maybe just that I am weird and different, but that I don't have to try to fit in the "normal" mode. During the many years that past after the Seed I would tell people that I was grateful for the Seed, but that if I "screwed up", I would NEVER go back.
I learned the lessons that have helped me to make choices for me and not to continue doing drugs and screwing up not only my life, but the lives of my children. They know I did drugs, but they also know that drugs are bad! I wonder what happened to Suzie, Amy (?), Billy the short guy with the blue VW bug. I remember the bountiful meals we had at the Vero Beach Seed and then we went to Ft Lauderdale and had the PBJ sandwiches Monday thru Friday lunch Ham & cheese for Fridaynite/Saturday lunch and tuna fish for Saturday nite and I didn't eat on Sunday lunch because someone had gotten food poisoning. Yes...Heck yes things were tough. We had to deal with the human part of the program (the bad part) pointing fingers at others before they could point them at you, being the kicked dog when the boss yelled at you. I remember standing up for hours down in Miami (after getting home late) as punishment for not "being honest". Going to bed at 2-3 am and then getting up at 6 to go to Hialeah to be dropped off before I was taken to the Seed.
I am glad someone else talked about being an outsider when the went back to visit. I finally had a ride to go down there from Cocoa and I was so excited to be able to visit...It was horrible! I was not welcomed. I swear that they had changed it to look more like a prison and I never checked back again...except in my dreams.
Many program abductees go on to have successful lifes after that abuse situation. It is a built in survivor mechanism and that is how I view past program victims, as survivors. I think a lot of folks who were abused by progams like the seed went into careers that were considered dangerous or where they put their own lifes in jeopardy to aid others. I worked in search and rescue and fire fighting for the National Park Service and did rock climbing recreationally. I think any therapist would agree that this could be related to the past trauma as well. We were torn down and made to feel like our life was worth nothing. Only to be rebuilt in the fantastical, manical world of the seedling. These techniques are not uncommon for other Synanon based "rehab" programs. Barker stole his experimental concepts from other programs and disquised it as a drug rehab. Problem I have is by calling it a drug rehab, you would think that some experience might be involved. You would also think that drug use should be a qualifier for the abductees. You don't give power to those who are there through court orders or to a guy with zero experience in anything having to do with rehabilitation. Barker had no qualified background to be doing what he claimed he could. He was a fraud and a master manipulater. He conned his way through life and allowed his ego to come first. Lots of creepy people are like that, Manson, Jim Jones, Ted Bundy.Agrees, just saying too, kinda scary some of the stuff I have been reading about other places that took off from the seed, scary to know so many lives are out there scared and being abused. Like it does not stop, they made so much money profiting that every time they close one place down another pops right up. ( you really have to be a sick soul to want to make money in this manner)When no one at all is allowed to profit off of souls, then maybe there will be a place that actually helps rather then forces, and forcing someone like myself will just make someone run, that is what I did, and thankful I did. (oh and I went through the motion there for almost a year) I can not see how anyone at these places thinks it helps anyone, if one they are forced to be there, ( I am not talking court ordered) I am talking taken in tricked lied to rolled up in a carpet what ever way they so think they can get away with. Thing is if you do this to someone, trust me they will eventually find a way away from such B.S. I had to take on a job at almost 14 to survive when I should have been in school. That is what they do to souls in those places, they take away from them is all. And please someone tell me how the fudge any drug rehab helps someone that is not even on drugs, but is forced to lie and say they did drugs? Success is when one knows self.Success is when you have the instincts to run from brainwashed addicts that want to profit off of you. I have to say, if it was not for this forum, I would never have read the truth about those idiots that only profited off of young souls who should have been in school not some blimp hanger. Thanks sis for writing , you always did make sense to me. What ever one goes through in life just remember it is your life not someone else. Be good to yourself that is the one soul that you should honor. :peace:
Just sayin