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Messages - FueLaw

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61
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / For Immediate Post And Release .Please Read
« on: December 23, 2002, 08:41:00 PM »
You are either psycotic or completely full of crap. It doesn't matter how much information you have it is completely useless in a legal sense. You could have a video taped confession , from Mr. Sembler, admitting that he beat and tortured children and it still wouldn't get you a dime in court.

I am aware of the upcoming magazine article because I was interviewed extensively for it. The magazine article is just that a magazine article. It will not increase anybody's legal rights.

62
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
« on: December 23, 2002, 08:26:00 PM »
First of all there are Statute of limitations on most crimes. Even in South Carolina. The case Clay is refering to does not apply. If someone is indicted for a crime, and then flees, the statute of limitations still applies because it has been meet. Therefore if someone bombs a building today, gets charged in the requisite time period, and manages to elude law enforcement for 10 years, they gain no legal benefit. Crimes such as murder have no statute of limitations. Almost all other crimes do.



Yes there is a difference in the statute of limitations in civil, as opposed to criminal court. In most situations it is 3-5 years, this would apply is state and federal court.



Let me be perfectly clear, the STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS HAS EXPIRED FOR ANY CIVIL RECOURSE AGAINST FOLKS LIKE THE SEMBLERS. Sorry to burst any baloons but is true. The people posting about all this dynamite information they have and how they are going to get even with the Semblers et al after 20 years are completely full of crap. Forget about what the so called paralegal is telling you because nothing can be done in a legal sense.



Keep in mind I am not trying to hurt anyone I am just trying to point out what the truth is in terms of your legal recourse or lack thereof.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-23 17:28 ]

63
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
« on: December 09, 2002, 07:10:00 AM »
First of all to the Tampa Survivor, good luck and God bless if you decide to move forward.



To anonymouys,(with the bag), the problem from a legal stand point is that the Statute of Limitations is 4 years in these kind of matters. In terms of Straight, they are shut down, defunct for years, there is no one left to sue.



With respect to the Straight clone programs , some of those kids still have a chance of getting legal recourse.  However, it is very unlikely that anything having to do with the original Straight could be used at trial, civil or criminal. This is because it is to remote in time and a lawsuit or criminal prosecution has to stand on it's own merits. In other words you would have to prove violations of the law by the new program.



MetalGod your post is pure fantasy. Never happen in the real world.



Also keep in mind if you sue someone and your lawsuit is deemed to be frivoulous or without merit then you could wind up being counter sued or have legal fees assesed against you. Filing a lawsuit years after the Statute of limitations has expired would be considered frivolous.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-09 04:11 ]

64
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
« on: December 08, 2002, 09:12:00 PM »
I was never in Straight I was in the Seed, which as most of you know existed before Straight. I read your board every now and then but never post here. I am an attorney and practice in Miami. Please accept some free legal advice. Don't submit an Affidavit.



To begin with they are legally worthless. This is because the confrontation clause, in the United States Constitution, allows the other side to confront their accuser. This is true in civil or criminal court. In order for an affidavit to be admissible in a legal proceeding you would have to appear for a deposition or at trial and let the other side cross examine you as to the contents of the affidavit. If you don't want to be a witness don't submit an affidavit.



Furthermore, if you come forward as a witness this opens you up for impeachment. In other words the Semblers or anybody can investigate and whatever mud they dig up can be used against you in court. This is true whether you are a party or a witness. If you don't want all your personal business put in to a public record don't sign an affidavit.



In addition you need to keep in mind that the Statute of Limitations is long gone for any kind of legal recourse. This is true for any civil or criminal recourse. Nothing bad is legally going to happen to any of the scumbags who were administrators at Straight.



This brings me to my point.  Some of you are being duped. The people who are encouraging you to sign the affidavits have some kind of alterior motive for do so. I am not a mind reader so I won't speculate as to their true motives. However, I am a lawyer and I know the reasons given to you are bs because the affidavits can't be used in a legal setting.  



You also need to keep in mind that once you hand over these affidavits you have no control over who views them and for what use they will be put to. They can be used for any purpose to advance others agenda. Maybe you agree in full or in part with their agenda maybe you don't. But once you give them the affidavits God only knows where they will wind up or what they will be used for.



As I stated in the beggining of this post I have been to a similar program as most of you. I spent 13 1/2 months in the Seed.  I understand your pain and what you went through. We all have fantasies or ideas that somehow, someday we will get even with our tormentors. Unfortunately , in terms of legal recourse, the time has past. Please don't allow yourself to be used by others to further their own agendas. Don't be swayed by their rhetoric or scare tactics or even their promises of legal grandeur.



I wish all you the best and I hope this message is well taken.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-08 18:15 ]

65
The Seed Discussion Forum / current picture of Art
« on: August 20, 2002, 08:53:00 PM »
Art looks real old and beat up in that picture. I guess that's a good thing maybe the bastard will  die and the world will become a slightly better place.



It is sort of ironic that a place that was going to "Save the World" back in the 70's just sort of drifted away without any fanfare and the rest of the leftover cash went to the dogs, literally not figuratively.

[ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2002-08-20 17:57 ]

66
The Seed Discussion Forum / Hello everybody !!!!!!!!!!
« on: August 20, 2002, 08:49:00 PM »
It was in the big room, I remember after the incident happend the staff escorted me out of public view to the back offices. A few of them really let me have it and I thought that was the end of it. After the open meeting broke up and the parents and guest left Underwood called me out and really went off on me.

Do you remember when the so called "druggies" would drive by on 84 and throw shit at dudes doing security, at the front gate, and at the building in general ? Or would drive by and yell all kinds of shit ? In retrospect that was pretty funny stuff.  

About the memory I can remember a few peoples names but not many. I still can recall alot of faces in my mind, which is kind of weird considering I graduated back in '74.

67
The Seed Discussion Forum / The humiliating seed!
« on: August 20, 2002, 05:20:00 PM »
Frank, that is because when they beat someone they would take you in the back offices , away from the group, to beat you. I got my ass whipped by staff on at least three occasions, twice at the old Tropical Park facility, and once after they moved to State Road 84. Once was by a staff member named Mike , who was kind of tall and had light brown hair. The next was by Robert Chun, now mayor of Dania Beach, and a few other guys who whipped my ass, held me down, and let a female staff member cut my hair.



I was 14-15 at the time. Also because I was a little guy they would assign me to bathroom sign in, near the offices, and from time to time shit would happen back there.

[ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2002-08-20 15:13 ]

68
The Seed Discussion Forum / Me, Art Barker and the showdown at poolside
« on: August 05, 2002, 05:59:00 PM »
Good story Greg, at least you got to cuss the bastard out face to face. I wish I would have got the chance. I am sure through the years he ran into other survivors of his program and got cussed out.  He knows what a farce he is and was. He also knows this because I am sure very few of his graduates ever came by to thank him over the years.

Art, Libby, Shelly and the others can all rot in hell.

69
The Seed Discussion Forum / In Re: The Seed and their Successes
« on: July 23, 2002, 09:34:00 PM »
In response to the thread below in regards to the Seed actually helping some people. I would agree that the seed probably did benifit some of it's participant's. The problem with the seeds approach was that they believed that one size fit all. That certainly isn't true. In addition Art Barker used to boast of 90% success rates. His real rate was probably closer to 20%. For those 20% who actually got help , good for them, and god bless them. What about the other 80% who got little or nor help ? What about the others who got psycologically damaged by those bastards ?  Any program that screws up 80 people to help 20 is pure garbage in my book.

I realize some of the people who attended the seed have accomplished alot in their lives since leaving or graduating the program. I would also venture to guess that most of the people who achieved success don't attribute Ark Barker for it. Like Marni's brother I became a lawyer and my father likes to think that the seed had something to do with it. I think he does this to justify putting me in there so many years ago. He likes to think it really did me some good. I always correct him when we have these conversations. Any success I have enjoyed is not because of Art Barker or the seed it is inspite of it or because I survived it.

70
The Seed Discussion Forum / Greetings
« on: July 23, 2002, 09:15:00 PM »
Greg : The Seed was located in an old wharehouse in Davie, off State Road 84,  for a few years. They spent the last 15 years or so in a building on Andrews avenue in between State road 84 and Davie blvd. Also there was another Susie, I remember Connors but there was another Susie from New York who was a great singer. She could be a real bitch but I went to through the 10-10 with her and she never really bothered me.

71
The Seed Discussion Forum / One of the beatings
« on: July 18, 2002, 06:30:00 PM »
That is part of the entire farce of "The Seed".  There wasn't much rehabilitation going on , just a whole lot of intimidation. I was scared of getting my ass kicked, I was scared of getting started over or put on a refresher, when I went to school I was scared that a fellow seedling would see me talking to the wrong person and tell someone ect...



The reason the whole concept of the seed, and those programs which followed, is so bogus is that they tore down a persons value system as well as thier personal support system(their friends) and replaced it with nothing. When you got out of the freakin place what did you have ? No real friends , nobody you could trust, and a whole bunch of confusion about life and the world in general. The whole concept and they way they tried to sell the place was a farce.



In addition the crap that they pulled on kids who where under 18 was so illegal and unconsitutional it's off the chart.Locking people up against there will when there are no pending criminal charges against them is clearly illegal. Even your parents can't legally do this. I will have more to say about the legal aspect of all of this in a few days.





[ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2002-07-18 15:34 ]

72
The Seed Discussion Forum / What a long, strange trip it has been
« on: July 08, 2002, 10:25:00 PM »
Isn't it sort of strange that no matter how many years pass by you still remember the day you went and the day you finished ? For me it was 5/27/73 and got out 7/6/74. For some reason I will remember those days forever.  

I had a conversation today with a client, who is an inmate at a federal prison,  this is his 4th trip up the road and he can still remember the dates he got locked up and the dates he was released. I guess it's similar in certain ways losing your freedom and your liberty. Things that most people take forgranted. However, in my opinion, the Seed is worse than federal prison because they tried to rob of us ourselves and our own personal beings.

73
The Seed Discussion Forum / Hello everybody !!!!!!!!!!
« on: May 14, 2002, 09:37:00 PM »
John Underwood was a senior staff member in '73-'74. I am not sure what happend after that. He was a big skinny guy from New York with blondish/brown hair. I also remember Arthur, another heavy set black guy named Robert who used to cut hair, a lady named Debbie del Bueno( or something to that effect) Penny, a heavy set black lady who was a good singer, there was a guy named Scott who was also from New York,. Back then they had facilities in Ft. Lauderdale, St. pete, Ft Pierce, and Miami, I was in Miami when they closed and merged with broward. I think they kind of rotated the staff members.

I remember one particular incident that happend right before Christmas at an open meeting. I had been in the program for about 7 months and had just got started over. They had all of the kids singing etnic songs and when it came to the jewish kids I would not get up and sing. They had some dignartaries there such as newspaper writers, judges ect... When John Underwood kept proding me to sing I told him to F-himself in front of the entire open meeting. I was dragged back to the offices out of public view immediately. After the meeting I was brought in front of the group and Underwood went nuts on me. He was demanding that I apologize to the group and I wouldn't. This went on for about 30-45 minutes,(it seemed like a lifetime then) and all I did was glare at him and who ever took a turn a yelling at me. I never apologized and I guess they were tired and finally started letting everyone go home.

74
The Seed Discussion Forum / Hello everybody !!!!!!!!!!
« on: May 14, 2002, 08:51:00 PM »
Hello again :



I am the person who started this thread and I am glad to see some response. My name is Mike, I don't need to be anonomous because because I don't feel like I have anything to be ashamed off in terms of being in the Seed 28-29 years ago. Art Barker and his followers (staff members) are the scum bags , not us.  



In terms of this reunion I am not sure if I could add anything to the legal panel because I have not been involved in any litigation involving these kind of issues.  I practice primarily in the area of criminal law. If any of the lawyers involved with your cause have cases going on in South Florida I might be able to lend a hand.



Like everyone else who has posted on this board I have my own horror stories about my captivity in the Seed or it's predeccesors. Hopefully message boards like this one will encourage or enable people to air out their feelings and vent.  In addition they may help potential future victims make more informed choices on where to send their children or where not to send them.  



If I can be of any assistance e-mail be at [email protected]  

[ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2002-05-15 03:11 ]

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