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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Remembering on August 13, 2006, 04:02:47 PM

Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Remembering on August 13, 2006, 04:02:47 PM
Hi All,

I'm one of the Seedlings who never touched, even saw a drug, before I was put in the Seed ( St Pete 1974). Of course, I eventually confessed to doing drugs, but can't quite remember how long it took until I confessed... was it the third day, fourth day.. did I last a week?

I confessed soon after Parent's night, as that experience ripped away any hope I had for getting out of there by being honest.

Do any of you remember when you confessed? Any one remember this that did not do drugs--at least--before The Seed?

How did it feel when you did confess? I can't remember the day, but I remember much of the feelings before, during and after my 'confession'.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 13, 2006, 04:16:58 PM
I think for me it was the third open meeting, maybe 7 days.  back then in St  Pete, open meetings were monday and friday.

They had something called the "3 day miracle" which was about the time you realized you weren't getting out and could perhaps fake your way home.  Then the faking started bluring with reality...and we all know the rest.
Title: Open Meetings?
Post by: Remembering on August 13, 2006, 04:58:47 PM
Open Meetings? Is this what remember as  "Parent's night?" If so, I remember it being just once a week... But then, without the moral inventories, I would have had any concept of how long I was there, or what day it was.
Title: Re: Open Meetings?
Post by: GregFL on August 13, 2006, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: ""Remembering""
Open Meetings? Is this what remember as  "Parent's night?" If so, I remember it being just once a week... But then, without the moral inventories, I would have had any concept of how long I was there, or what day it was.


What you remember as 'parents night' was actually called 'open meetings'.  It was also, somewhat, open to the public (screened at the door).

Here, we put on a show for everyone.  Song, confessionals, teary "im coming home" "I can talk to you after the meeting" and other privelidges we earned we had to announce, and then everyone would applaud and smile.  Art would do 'surveys' where he would ask us "who has done this or that" and we would by show of hands confess to our sins while our neighbors and parents stood by witnessing.  After everyone cleared out, we had a small 'rap' and then left, usually somewhere around 12:00.



It was an emotional circus.  Initially in St Pete, it was monday and Friday. Before long it was Fridays only.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 13, 2006, 11:10:34 PM
At CEDU, we had "raps" three days a week, MWF.  They lasted four hours a pop.  An emotional circus if ever there was one. So, are Open Meetings basically the Seed version of a rap, and if you had them 1-2 a week, how was the rest of the time structured?

We had:

MWF: Intense outdoor labor followed by lunch, then a rap, then dinner, lights out

T/Th: All day school (total sham) dinner, clean up, lights out

Saturday: Cleaning crew day and I forgot what else

Sunday: Chill day.

Periodically, we had overnight raps lasting from 24 hours to 5 days, and wilderness experentials lasting from 3 days to 2 weeks.  Part of these wilderness trips included raps (UGH!) and solitary.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 14, 2006, 01:12:19 AM
no, we had "raps" every day from 10 in the morning until 10 at night with a few minor breaks...15 minute exercise..lunch...dinner.  These were done right in the wooden chair you "rapped" in.    You were forced into this mind numbing routine until you earned your right to be an oldcomer, which meant you came at night and on the weekends.


The "raps" were non stop, confrontational, tiring and emotional.  YOu were punished if you mind wandered, if you failed to keep your eyes on the rap leader or speaker, or if you failed to properly 'motivate' your desire to participate.  If and when you did participate, a confrontation may or may not take place.  You never knew when or why it was coming.  It was said that the staffers were so aware that they knew what you were thinking and it was fruitless to try to 'con'.

We had no chill day, no diversion whatsoever. We weren't allowed to read, to watch TV, to call anyone, or to even look at a billboard.  Free thinking was out.  You had to preach the party line or face the consequences, which were usually severe and immediate.

 Hard labor chipping rocks on a prison work gang would have been much preferable.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 15, 2006, 12:13:11 PM
Our raps sound similar except yours' were more prolonged... and we had no tv or phone use (to help keep us isolated.)  Even though Sunday was "chill day" we were always under watch, never alone, and always expected to adhere to CEDU protocol. We could not discuss things outside of CEDU, so our minds were controlled (or should I say what we expressed).  Older students were our "watch dogs" to make sure we never expressed or acted in any way that demonstrated free thinking.  You also had to be sure not to spend too much time enjoying something, or you would be put on indefinite bans, such as banned from books or even in one case, from the sun.  Girls with long beautiful hair got it chopped off (the excuse was that we shouldn't focus on outer beauty.)

The hours of hard, physical labor was a haven for me, a former beach queen who emptied the dishwasher or cleaned my room for "labor."  Hell, I was more than happy to chop wood for hours, run wheelbarrels full of logs a half mile, climb trees and saw off branches, dig trenches to install pipes --anything that didn't induce the emotional upheaval of raps.  I did a really good job of hiding in the woodworks, and keeping my nose clean, but I hated the unpredictability of being spotlighted in a rap that was usually focused on false accusations, and I hated, hated, hated watching other peopel being routinely castigated and humiliated. The worst was that I was being increasingly pressured to be part of the lynch mob, hurting others to "prove" my loyalty to the group. That's when I split.

Still, it sounds like we had greater physical comfort than those in Straight or the Seed. (Our parents did spend big bucks to keep us there.)  And we didn't have 12 hour raps, which too me, is so extreme, I can't even imagine how anyone can justify this as therapeutic.    Anyone who says this is reasonable or beneficial, is frankly, a jackass whose head is far, far up the ass of denial.  I mean, it just doesn't make sense!
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: NOT12NOW on August 15, 2006, 04:59:43 PM
never lied in any straight forward way.  I had smoked pot but never been high.  I drank but had only been drunk once.  My story became that the only reason I had done so few drugs was because other drugs had never come my way, "I would have taken anything given to me," was what I said.  I think, it took me about two weeks to settle on that line.    It was the compromise I made because I  believed the staff could read my mind, so I wouldn't have dared  lie and know I was lieing.  So instead of lying about a list of drugs I just lied about myself, my core.  I did everything I could to convince them and myself that I really would have done heroin if somebody offered it to me.   Just like everyone else first I tried to fake it to get sent home, then I broke which, meant I started trying to fool myself instead of them.   And fool myself I did.  Sadly to this day I am still not quite sure what the truth was.  I know that, "I would have done anything anyone gave me," wasn't true but I also know I did lots of frightenly destructive, dangerous things to myself and others.  To this day I still don't know how much danger I was actually in or if I might have been able to come out of it myself.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: NOT12NOW on August 16, 2006, 07:47:33 AM
in answer to Remembering question.  I recall feeling only relief when I came up with my "exageration."  Finally, I had hit the mark and people started treating me more kindly.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 08:19:42 AM
Funny...I was honest with them. I remember saying I only did speed once and the staff member said "yeah right" I looked at him like "FU" . I stuck to my guns was honest and the program worked for me.  I did alot of other drugs but speed only once.  I guess to thine own self be true..
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 09:28:22 AM
So you're saying sitting in a chair for hours each day listening to people be browbeaten or humiliated was therapeutic to you?  THta you would be deadinsaneorinjail if you had not participated in this program?
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 11:43:27 AM
I didn't listen to hours of browbeating nor was I ever humiliated.  Sure I remember fear.  When I started working the program and really working it.  It worked for me.  I remember all really human & humane experiences.  I remember people caring for me and me learning to care for others.  I think that was the point.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 16, 2006, 11:49:08 AM
Couple of questions.  What were you afraid of and how exactly did you "work the program"?  What does that mean?
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 16, 2006, 11:50:32 AM
"to each their own" said farmer Joe as he made a lunch date with his favorite goat.
Title: To the pro-SEED anon
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 01:15:55 PM
I, too would like to know what "working the program" consists of and what your perspective of the raps and group work is...  

Are you saying you never saw any badgering, coersion, browbeating... a taking pleasure in hyperbolic confessions?  Was everyone sitting in a circle in a supportive love fest? Was individual spirit  really embraced? Was anyone whose opinion deviated from the staff accepted as true and not immediately dismissed?
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 04:08:20 PM
Why?
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 04:10:07 PM
Why.?...

Greg I thought sheep were your preference of choice.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: NOT12NOW on August 17, 2006, 08:23:22 AM
Why?   Because we would like to know about your experience.  That's what we do here, share our true experiences.  I'd like to know how old you were when you went in the program, when you were there, how long you stayed around.

When you toss out platitudes like, "to thy own self be true," it reminds me of one of my experiences at the seed.  The experience of having ones feelings shot down.   It used to happen traveling back and forth from the program, at school or on permission outings with other seedlings.  It went like this one seedling says something not strickly with the program, is seen being too friendly with a non-seedling at school,  mentions liking a movie or song that isn't directly seed sanctioned and their seed companion tosses out a platitude like, "I used to see it that way before I started working the program, Hang around a barbershop and your going to get a hair cut, or that's a druggy song/movie."  Not a direct attack just a poke, a reminder that an attack could happen at any time.  

It worked like a charm.  I pushed down my true feelings so far I didn't know what my true feelings were.  Now I do.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 10:47:23 AM
Another resaon why: If the program is as beneficial as you claim it to be, than it should be fairly easy to specify the positive aspects/tools of the program.  

When a program parent visited my site claiming that the program I attended was the end all-be all, I described to her the way raps/workshops were conducted on a SYSTEMIC Level, and as well as the day-to-day life.  She totally glossed over the abuses and kept up her rhetoric. Finally, I asked what specifically worked. What tools and climatic aspects rendered a healthier person with more self esteem.  She coudln't provide and answer to that.  She never could.

If you can, that is a good starting point.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 11:40:25 AM
Most of the time, the people that claim "help" also claim it was the "love and caring" that cured them.  They usually summarily ignore, deny or gloss over the actual techniques used to "help" them.  When pressed for actual help, they usually talk about the steps or serenity prayer....two very benign things that don't require cohersion, inprisonment and threats of jail and witholding of affection and personal dignities to practice.

When pressed to answer how their "love" and "caring" wasn't conditional on them changing their behavior and adopting certain group ideals and behaviors, their argument just dries up.  If you didn't act like a seedling, you were shown the door.  That is, when you were old enough and there  long enough to make the decision without fear of being tackled to the floor and put on the front row.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why.?...

Greg I thought sheep were your preference of choice.



Well, your thinking is real Baaaaaad.


Thats all I gotta say.


 :lol:
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 12:26:51 PM
The Sad Passing of Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense,
who has been with us for many years.


No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were
long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having
cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the
rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and
maybe it was my fault.
 
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).
 
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.


Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing
the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer Panadol, sun lotion or a sticky plaster
to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became
pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.


Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became
contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better
treatment than their victims.


Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.


Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.


Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust;
his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.  
He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else is
to Blame, and I'm A Victim.
 
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
If you still remember him pass this on. If not, join the majority and
do nothing.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 01:11:33 PM
Hey Anon, next time do something like this before or after the text you cut and paste....


http://www.dadsindistress.asn.au/news341.html (http://www.dadsindistress.asn.au/news341.html)


In addition to the fact that attributing the words of someone else to the source is the morally and legally correct thing to do, there are OTHER reasons to properly quote things that other people have wrote.

For example, we may attribute those trite meaningless words to you.  You wouldn't want that, would you?

 :rofl:
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Sad Passing of Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense,
who has been with us for many years.


No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were
long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having
cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the
rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and
maybe it was my fault.
 
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).
 
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.


Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing
the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer Panadol, sun lotion or a sticky plaster
to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became
pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.


Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became
contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better
treatment than their victims.


Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.


Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.


Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust;
his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.  
He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else is
to Blame, and I'm A Victim.
 
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
If you still remember him pass this on. If not, join the majority and
do nothing.



You know, this thing needs work!

Let me see if I can help you.



The Sad Passing of Uncommon Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a seldom seen recluse, uncommon Sense,
who has been with us for many years But has yet chosen to not impart his wisdom on but a very few.


No one knows for sure how old he was because he rejected all who  use the word's "common sense" since it is obviously a mutually exclusive term and identifies the user of such terms as intellectually  light-in-the-loafers.  IE:  Very few people can make sense out of anything using the superstitions and illogical thinking that pervades humankind.

 
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to enjoy the rain by standing in it and wondering at nature, why the early bird stopped eating worms , why the concept of fairness is usually based in subjectiveness,  and why assigning fault is often just plain futile and accomplishes nothing.
 
Uncommon Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies like money isn't everything and reliable parenting strategies like; parents aren't always right, and children are actually people, not property and  have valuable things to say.

Uncommon Sense lost ground when  teachers used violence and  hit children and then justified their actions with ancient holy books and arcane systems of punishment. He got a rebreather of sorts when schools finally figured out their role and stopped physically abusing students and were required to get parental consent to administer Panadol, sun lotion or a sticky plaster  to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.  These things clearly were family issues and the role of the school is not to parent or to impart the states code of "morality".  Uncommon sense took a deep inhalation of putrid free air for a moment in time.


Uncommon Sense was strenthened further when, as people's ability to reason evolved, ancient relics of contrary ideas, like absolute morality written into stone tables by supernatural  beings were purged from the public square and relegated to private property and private enterprises.   Uncommon sense actually ran a 10k marathon when people started realizing the rights of "criminals" were really the rights of all citizens, and that when any government can impede on these rights, we are all in danger of fascism, and that protecting ourselves from this is the very thing that makes this country great..


Uncommon Sense further felt pride when people were held accountable when they  attempted to hide violent acts behind the acts of others and the  context of these violent acts were intensly scrutinized.  No longer could people justify murder and violent beatings on the questionable acts of others.

Uncommon Sense is survived  by his parents, Reason and freethought; his wife, sexy; his daughter, lovelife; and his son, atheism.  

Also surviving his death are his three retarded stepbrothers;racialpride, GodIslove,  and TheSeedLovesYou.
 
Not many attended his funeral becausewith the lack of rational foundation, his very existent was in denial by a large percentage of the population.


If you still remember him pass this on. If not continue the illusion of   your "common sense" when clearly, sense is uncommon.



There, I fixed it for you.  No need to thank me!
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 02:39:32 PM
True no need to thank you, by the way I thought that was STUPID ,
of course not you just what you did!!!

 :rofl:

Oh Yeah  go find some sheep...

at your age maybe find one .  

an old one at that...

 :rofl:
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 03:19:59 PM
Boy this has really taken a turn. And the anon who can't get enough talking about sheep oughta think about buying a farm for himself.

Well, I agree with aspects of both.  Hate being bludgeoned with religion in any respect--I feel like religion is often used in place of logic/reason/sense.

But I do think that political correctness  has gotten out of control.  Like when kids get expelled or suspended for bringing Tylenol to school or for kissing a fellow kindergartener.  I also think we've gotten too lax in our parenting and society promotes that by stripping us of our rights.  On the other hand, I couldn't imagine forcing a 16 year old girl to have a baby because of my religious beliefs.

When my 6 year old was five he got into trouble for not reciting the Pledge seriously enough.  That pissed me off.  Not one kindergartener had an inkling what the fucking Pledge means, and they can take it seriously when they understand it and agree to its terms.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 04:11:29 PM
Sounds like you should get over it.  Maybe buy your kid a sheep :rofl:
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 05:02:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
True no need to thank you, by the way I thought that was STUPID ,
of course not you just what you did!!!

 :rofl:

Oh Yeah  go find some sheep...

at your age maybe find one .  

an old one at that...

 :rofl:



ahh, com'n...I thought it was good!

There just aint no accounting for taste these days....
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 17, 2006, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Boy this has really taken a turn. And the anon who can't get enough talking about sheep oughta think about buying a farm for himself.

Well, I agree with aspects of both.  Hate being bludgeoned with religion in any respect--I feel like religion is often used in place of logic/reason/sense.

But I do think that political correctness  has gotten out of control.  Like when kids get expelled or suspended for bringing Tylenol to school or for kissing a fellow kindergartener.  I also think we've gotten too lax in our parenting and society promotes that by stripping us of our rights.  On the other hand, I couldn't imagine forcing a 16 year old girl to have a baby because of my religious beliefs.

When my 6 year old was five he got into trouble for not reciting the Pledge seriously enough.  That pissed me off.  Not one kindergartener had an inkling what the fucking Pledge means, and they can take it seriously when they understand it and agree to its terms.


My rebuttal was just a joke to show how you can twist those little ditties to mean anything you want them to.

That anyone takes them serious is really of interest.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 05:08:36 PM
I know it was a joke, but lately the whole issue of parenting/rights/common sense/ etc. has been on my mind. Maybe I need to lighten up!!
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: Anonymous on August 18, 2006, 09:02:44 AM
:idea:   Ding, ding, ding....

give that girl a prize.  excuse me.

give that lady a prize.
Title: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: GregFL on August 18, 2006, 09:21:42 AM
Okay.  


That  is,as long as the prize isn't a sheep.

 :lol:
Title: how long 'til you confessed ?
Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 07:27:11 PM
man, has this topic de-evolved! sheep jokes for goodness sake? my comments are addressed rimarily to remembering and greg and eudora and stripe.. actually i do remember the process of confession.. it went like this i had indeed ingested substances prior to my incarceration i had also grown bored with the substance culture (one more three am  monologue on the cosmic significance of jimi hendrix and i might have jumped!).. so ijust stopped, lost interest..at intake the nice lady asked me what drugs i had done.. and i told her, i wasn't shy or guilty for that matter.. well, after about two weeks i determined that the way out was a more lurid confession.. they clearly wanted more.. so i agonized for a few days ( i was concerned about the risk to people  i had associated with, and the possibilityof blackmail, even then) so i mde up a couple stories, agreed to get my haircut, and sought out one of the staff to shamefully make my full confession, and they did press me for details, names, amounts etc.. so i accomodated them, i just made stuff up.. and they kinda sorta bought it  however, i can still remember the day, and how i felt on my way to confession, i had determined to simply tell the truth on intake, as it was  false testimony that got me there,and when i decided to confes, i no longer cared what the truth was, i'd just give em what they wanted... later in life i learned that's calle the 'trans-marginal' stage of brainwashing..hang me for the crimes i've comitted, not the onrs i ain't, and lord, protect me from the front-pew ladies.
Title: Re: How Long until You Confessed?
Post by: I'll kick your arse on May 02, 2012, 11:24:29 PM
:bump: