Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: marcwordsmith on November 02, 2002, 02:27:00 AM

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: marcwordsmith on November 02, 2002, 02:27:00 AM
I am so curious what became of some of the staff members. I'm thinking of a few in particular:

1. Suzie Connors. When I was in the Ft. Lauderdale Seed in 1972, I was 14 and Suzie was 19 and--like many of the boys, I think--I had a sort of masochistic crush on her. But really, she wasn't the meanest staff member then, though she was occasionally cruel.
Reading through this forum, I see that Suzie went on to be the head of the St. Pete Seed, and was pretty much a monster. I was talking about this with my wife (not an ex-Seedling, not from Florida), saying it didn't quite jibe with my memory of Suzie. My wife pointed out that Suzie probably became worse. It makes sense.

2. John Underwood. What a spooky, strange guy. Does anybody know what became of him and how long he stayed with the Seed?

3. Clay. Don't know Clay's last name. It sounded something like "Climb." He's the one I'm most interested in. He had graduated the Seed before my time, then had had to serve a jail sentence on an old rap (as in legal rap, not Seed rap), and he returned to the Seed--as a staff member--about a month before I graduated. Clay was unique. Of all the staff members, if you caught his eye during a rap, instead of glaring at you to insinuate that you should be PAYING ATTENTION TO THE RAP, he might wink or make a funny face. At least that's how he was with me.
Here comes the remarkable part. Clay pulled me aside one evening and said softly, "How would you like to go to the oldtimers' rap tonight?" meaning I had completed the program. I was thrilled of course. But asking around, I never heard of anybody else being informed that way that they had completed the program; everybody else I spoke to had gotten their name called in front of the group and there was all that celebratory applause. It is my belief to this day that Clay subverted normal channels on my behalf--that it was HIS decision that I should be finished. If any other senior Seed staff person were to have retracted that decision, this would have revealed division in the ranks, which was unthinkable.

4. Danny Ultamura, another interesting character who kinda disappeared before I was out of there. Mean to some, but very kind to me.

What became of these souls I wonder, I wonder.

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on November 12, 2002, 12:40:00 AM
Hey Marc. Long time no hear. I hope everything is good.

News is sketchy on these folks. Last I saw Suzy Connors was in Ft Lauderdale about 1979. I was working in the record store, and the Seed girls lived about a block away in an apartment complex (see my story about the event by the pool).
Anyway, she came in and I tried to talk to her. She politely said hi and asked me to help her pick out an album for her friend. I picked out "Saturday night Fever" and she left. Last I heard she was at the "Seed Reunion" about 10 years ago and is living up north somewhere.
I am not sure calling a monster is accurate. I think Suzy was duped just like the rest of us and eventually left the Seed. Her position at the St Pete Seed left a very young, very indoctrinated child in charge of hundred's of children, and her job was to institute a behavior modification regiment upon these children. This is a tremendous responsibility for a young person like her to have to handle. She made mistakes, to be sure.

John Underwood....recently I heard that way back when in the late 70s, he started a company with someone else from St Pete selling tennis courts. Where this went and where he is....I sure would like to know. I have some questions and would love to sit down and have a beer (soda) with him.

I didn't know or don't recall clay.

Danny. Know THAT rings a bell. I remember a skinny kid about 17 (i was 14 ) in 1973 that was junior staff. I think he helped strip search me.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: marcwordsmith on November 17, 2002, 02:14:00 AM
Thanks, Greg. That was interesting information. I have a feeling Clay was only there briefly; he was so unusual. As for Danny, he must have been before your time, because he was gone before I was, and I was "off my program" in March 1973.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: surfdal on January 14, 2003, 09:19:00 AM
i vaugly remember him
kinda tall and quiet maybe?...as a newcomer i had to live w/ rick burtain..a real fuggin asshole..another one i really disliked intensly was david reiser. some of those people were so arrogant
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: girlwithoutbarcode on January 14, 2003, 01:21:00 PM
Wow, it blows my mind to see all of your posts refer to the 70's and that the sickness of the program was going on even back then.  I was born in March of 1973, and in 1988, was in Kids of Bergen County (North JErsey) under director and dictatorship of "Dr." Miller Newton and his lovely wife Ruth Ann.  I thought it was and 80's fad to run a cult, who knew how long this had really been going on.  I'm glad it's over for you all.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on January 14, 2003, 10:24:00 PM
Its not over until  they stop, and I just went to a open meeting at a Seed/straight descendent several months ago.

The nightmare continues.


When an innocent Californian millionaire gets killed by a drug squad
trying to seize his house with a bogus search warrant, people better ask themselves if they really want to turn their cops into money-makers.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Razor Boy on March 28, 2003, 04:01:00 PM
I just found this web board and I am amazed! It brings back a lot of bad memories. I was in Lauderdale in 73 and was with  the first group to open St Pete.  I have some stories to tell!

Does anyone remember Tommy Mayor (or Maier)?  He looked and dressed like Elvis.  He made me his personal project after I ran away.  Screw you, Tommy.

I will write my story soon.

Razor Boy
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 01, 2003, 11:07:00 PM
Welcome!  You may remember me and my sister frieda and my step siblings Mark and Shirley if you were in the original seed St Pete. Anyway, post your story and welcome!


Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By  any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young,  DOJ/DEA

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Antigen on April 05, 2003, 06:41:00 PM
Hey there! Remmember any McNultys? I was the little blond girl, bored to tears, sitting on the parents' side every week, choking on all the smoke.

The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.
-- Patrick Henry

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2003, 10:40:00 PM
I remember Suzie, Ann, Darlene (little redhead--I think she and Suzie had it goin' on together--haha), John Underwood, Janice (jr. staff), and a few others. I was in the St. Pete Seed 1974, and agree that it screwed me royally these past 29 years--I can't believe it's been that long! I unlearned love and unlearned how to respect people there. Am finally learning how to be a whole person at age 43.

The idea behind the place is good--for ADULTS who have REAL drug problems; not for BABIES of 13 and 14 who smoked POT and experimented. Jeez it makes me angry thinking of the whole thing, and learning what was behind it all (money, politics, MONEY, POLITICS, CRAP!!!)
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2003, 10:40:00 PM
I remember Suzie, Ann, Darlene (little redhead--I think she and Suzie had it goin' on together--haha), John Underwood, Janice (jr. staff), and a few others. I was in the St. Pete Seed 1974, and agree that it screwed me royally these past 29 years--I can't believe it's been that long! I unlearned love and unlearned how to respect people there. Am finally learning how to be a whole person at age 43.

The idea behind the place is good--for ADULTS who have REAL drug problems; not for BABIES of 13 and 14 who smoked POT and experimented. Jeez it makes me angry thinking of the whole thing, and learning what was behind it all (money, politics, MONEY, POLITICS, CRAP!!!)
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2003, 10:40:00 PM
I remember Suzie, Ann, Darlene (little redhead--I think she and Suzie had it goin' on together--haha), John Underwood, Janice (jr. staff), and a few others. I was in the St. Pete Seed 1974, and agree that it screwed me royally these past 29 years--I can't believe it's been that long! I unlearned love and unlearned how to respect people there. Am finally learning how to be a whole person at age 43.

The idea behind the place is good--for ADULTS who have REAL drug problems; not for BABIES of 13 and 14 who smoked POT and experimented. Jeez it makes me angry thinking of the whole thing, and learning what was behind it all (money, politics, MONEY, POLITICS, CRAP!!!)
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2003, 11:23:00 PM
Anyone remember that real tall black guy name Arthur ?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 22, 2003, 10:01:00 AM
Of course, who could ever forget arthur and his stories of ghetto life and cars held together with coat hangers.

Arthur quit the seed while I was there.  We were in together. Email me your name at [email protected] if you don't want to post it here.

The idea of the Seed, By the way, was/is wrong for everyone. Adults don't respond any better to brainwashing techniques than children do. It is a failed modality.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.

--Joseph Goebbels

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: surfdal on May 21, 2003, 07:33:00 PM
in retrospect ,i dont recall ANY black people in the seed...'71-'72... guess i assumed that the black kids parents werent being duped by whiteys shit and the adult black users in court just went to prison while some white junkies were deemed worth rehabing?... hmmm seed as racist.. interesting aspect...
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2003, 01:34:00 PM
The name Robert Chun (Chun, I think) comes to mind when you mention blacks in the program. He was senior staff in the early '70's, and a great guy.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2003, 07:37:00 AM
I remember:  Ann, who did my intake; Janice (was she the tall black gal always off to the girl's side?); Darlene, Libby, Suzie, Penny (ugh) John and Clay; Karl, thin guy always off to the guy's side (who married Vicki Burke), along with another guy who wore glasses, can't remember his name (maybe Rick - quiet guy); some guy about John's age from Ft. Lauderdale, can't recall his name, dark haired and tall (if memory serves he was nice enough); and a little tiny gal maybe Robin (?).   I only remember Arthur coming down for a short time; then there's the gal rumoured to have married John, can't remember her name either.  I can still see all their faces even if I can't bring up their names after 29 or 30 years or however long it has been and forever on the front row.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: pigeon on February 04, 2004, 09:05:00 AM
I remember Suzy when she was at the Cleveland seed.
She and Scott did my intake.  I liked them both which probably helped my parents get me in there.

I liked them best because,at least then, they each had a sense of humor.  Scott's before stories were often great fun and what a relief it was to laugh.  The one I remember most clearly was a story about his getting into a drunken brawl
and going home thinking "steak, so I don't get a black eye".  He put a frozen steak on his face and passed out.  During the night the steak defrosted and the blood on his face dried with the blood on the steak.  When he woke up he thought he was blind.  I laughed my head off.

Suddenly one day he was gone, to work at the florida seed, folks said, although no one told us directly.  About three months later he was back but he was totally different, no sense of humor, no laughter just deadly serious staff member standing at the side of group.  I always wondered what happened to him.  Clearly, someone thought he was having to much fun
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2004, 03:35:00 PM
You have a good memory, thanks for reminding me , there faces are coming back to me. remember Darlene Robertson and her little brother was on the program as well. Some of the staff members were real dorks out on the streets, and then they got to push us around, i always remember that big junkie ego thing with some of them of which many came from homes of privilage, and really knew nothing of the real streets. WE HAD TO GIVE UP OUR EGO SO THEY COULD INFLATE THEIRS !  I think more young kids wanted to try herion so they had a great story .

richard
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on May 03, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
Hey richard, do you remember Art or John or anyone else saying they were in a drug rehab in New York?

This is important, so please think hard...
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2004, 04:00:00 PM
I only remember Art saying he was an alcoholic, and if you are talking about John Underwood, I  think his family lived in HOLLYWOOD FLA. area, I  think he went to DRIFTWOOD MIDDLE SCHOOL with my older brother. He was a couple of years  ahead of him. The funny thing is I don't remember John from the small house, maybe only Libby..
Most of the seed stars came in on st andrews.
the house that they used for the haunted house, is that st andrews? I don't recall most of the faces from the small house making it over to SR84

Richard
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Somejoker on May 03, 2004, 04:15:00 PM
So maybe it was Nick that used to say that. Do you remember him speaking of a rehab in New York?

Richard, have you seen the pic of Art, Libby, John Perloff, Shelly and at least one other seedling? This will give you an idea what they look like now, keeping in mind this is over two years ago.


http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/20 ... 0206-0.htm (http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/200202/20020206-0.htm)
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on May 03, 2004, 08:20:00 PM
Mark did you stay in davie at anytime on  the program with one of the families?, your name seems familiar.

Richard Frost
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Cayo Hueso on May 06, 2004, 02:48:00 PM
I've lived in St. Pete my whole life.  I remember a family that lived down the street from me sent the oldest brother to the Seed.  I'm guessing this would have been somewhere around 1975, give or take a year or two.  The name is Joe Portwood.  I have no idea how long he was there or whether or not it was St. Pete or Lauderdale.  I don't even really remember him to well.  His youngest sister was my age.  All I remember is that he was supposed to be this scary guy who had to go away for a while.  When he got out we found out where he was.  Does the name ring any bells with anyone?

It blows me away that there's a connection back that far.  I wonder if my parents knew of the Straight/Seed lineage.

In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
--Unknown

Title: some specific staff members
Post by: marshall on August 22, 2004, 10:28:00 PM
Are you sure the guy you are thinking of was named Clay? It sure sounds a lot like Cliff. John U. married a gal named Pam, who was also staff.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: RicciC on December 30, 2005, 01:51:00 PM
John was roumered to have married a girl staffer named Pam forgot her last nme. Do you guys remember Harold, thin guy w/glasses?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: ChrisL on December 30, 2005, 10:13:00 PM
Dave Crock, he was an old-timer that was already a graduate when I came on the program, became staff at Straight, Inc

Nick ?Leverone Papantanio ??(?) staffer at the St Pete seed, dark skin Italian or Sicilian heavy NY accent

John Underwood ? staffer supposedly a heroin addict from New York

Billy the midget ? staff member from lauderdale

Dennis Nowak (or Novak) ? staff member had a younger brother named Kenny was also on staff

Big Black Arthur ___________ -senior staff could be quite intimidating, but actually a softy

Susie Conners ? staff from Ft Laud

Darlene __________ - staff, red head

Libby ______ - staff

Cliff ____________

Bob Wakus ?senior staff in SP 74-75

Pam ___________ -staff

Enie Peterman? - staff SP

Dan Hubble ? oldtimer in SP staffer at one time in Lauderdale

Doug Summers - on staff in SP

Ken Harbough - oldtimer in SP lived at the house near Bayfront, became staff briefly in SP

Dana Denard ? black staffer dated and married Karen ________(?)

Penny Denard ? Dana?s sister also on staff in St Pete

Bob Rocke - staff member with Red Hair, had a younger brother with black hair,

Mike Rocke who was also on staff for a while, they moved in with the guys at the apartment for a while & then to Fort Lauderdale, were both involved in the tennis court business venture

Maggie Canfield- oldtimer from SP became staff in Ft lauderdale
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2005, 05:45:00 AM
More St. Pete staff

Anne

Janice

______? blond female staff with a lisp

Robin - about 4 foot nothing tall

Pam - rumored to have married John Underwood

Harold - thin guy with glasses

Karl(??) slight built guy, dark hair - rumored to have married a gal named Vickie B from Tampa

Bob Kinzel

_______? short male staff originally from New York
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: CherylL on January 23, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
Wow - after reading the posts, I think I must have blocked out a lot of my time at the Seed!!  I only remember Libby (her name - not her) and Art Barker.  When he came to speak to us, which was somewhat rare, it was like Jesus came in for a visit!  Once we had to sit on the asphalt outside in the summer waiting for him to get there for what seemed like hours!!  My best friend & I got put in at the same time - all our friends had been sent already and we were kinda lonely (ahh - the stupidity of youth)and I really only remember her, a girl named Suzy from Ft. Pierce area that lived with my family for a while and a few of my friends from before we went in.   :scared:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
Terry ______
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on January 29, 2006, 09:52:00 AM
tst[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-01-29 06:52 ]
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on February 11, 2006, 06:03:00 PM
Hi! Haven't been able to spend any time here for a while. My sister and I were talking the other day and I was asking her what she remembered about the trips to the beach which would have been early 70's not sure if we were at the house on 3rd or andrews at the time. Anyway she reminded me that one of the girls who I think was staff (maybe renee) had parents who owned a house on the beach not far from the Yankee Clipper and we used to go there as a group. Anybody remember that? Like whose house it was etc.
Cheers
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2006, 02:08:00 AM
can you explain who you are?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on March 07, 2006, 12:02:00 PM
Sorry it took so long to reply. Went through the seed twice. Both times with my sister Marcia. I was there in 1970 at the little house on 3rd avenue, was an oldtimer by the time we moved to what would become the Haunted House on Andrews and went back when the program was on St Rd 84 around 72' or 73'. I was most recognizable the first time around because I was only 9 years old and at the time nobody had ever come in that young. Blond hair/ Blue eyes and my screen name is a giveaway for my nickname at the time which is a play on my first name. Would I know you? In reference to another post I did stay at a house in Davie the second time around. My oldcomers mom would drop me off there to sleep on the floor from around 6am until it was time to go to the morning meeting. Don't remember the guys name who lived there but he treated me ok and it was a very nice house in its own way.
Cheers,
L
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2006, 06:44:00 PM
Terry M* ended up married to Jeff Pet* and lives in Canada.  I am her ex-sister in law. I was married to Jon.[married 82...divorced 01]  I saw Susie Conners about 1983 she was doing the religon thing I think.  I had couple of drinks with her,she seemed fine she could always take care of herself. I want to know what happened to Cookie did Art take all her inheritance. After the Seed left Cleve. the Plain Dealer had a write up about it.  Karen K from Cleve.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Ft. Lauderdale on April 12, 2006, 08:40:00 AM
Hey Karen we don't really use last names around here. I see you are quick to put others last names but just Karen K. for you.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2006, 08:52:00 AM
Karen, I always liked Jon.  Speaking of finances
how much did you get out of the divorce.  Were you able to milk him out of everything? I always liked Jeff also, now Terry, that was another story.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 12, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
any chance of getting your hands on the plain dealer article?

If you are still in cleveland (or anybody else), going to the local library and looking thru the ole microfish is one way.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2006, 06:05:00 PM
I'll try and find the article. When exactly did the seed leave cleve. I think I can start there. Also, I am sorry for the last names I printed. Thanks for the edit. My last name is Kelley. As for the milk money....I have peace of mind...like master card thats pricelss...thanks you guys I found this site helpful in putting some pieces together for me.....Karen
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: cleveland on April 14, 2006, 11:04:00 AM
Karen, I think the Seed left in October or novemeber of 1979.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Johnny G on April 14, 2006, 12:29:00 PM
I think it was '78,  I just got my background check and it said that all of my noteworthy behavior occoured that year, which resulted in my attendance on the front row.  I was only in the Cleveland seed for a few months before it closed.  It was October/November as I recall.

G
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2006, 07:34:00 PM
I remember Arthur. Me and my little sister were the youngest kids ever to attend the Seed, at that time anyway. I was eleven, she was 10. I was SO compliant (although I had to flat-out make stuff up in order to "relate"), that I don't remember any staff members or fellow Seedlings -- although I graduated the stupid program and attended oldtimers meetings for a long time (primarily because my dad was an AA nut).

(I got my first bra because of that "Girls must wear bras" thing -- so that was cool.  *giggle*)

My sister was the only person I ever knew who resisted the indoctrination ENTIRELY. She used to sit on her hands with all her might in order to avoid the stupid sing-and-hold-hands sessions. She still has a scar on her stomach from the dog "Spats" there (just a simple excited-dog bite, nothing abusive).

I remember Arthur grabbing my sister up from her chair once (where she was virtually lying down).  Other than that, I only remember Art and Libby.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 23, 2006, 08:02:00 PM
well, whoever you are, welcome!  We had a couple nine year olds with "druggie attitudes" in the Stg Pete Straight.  I once had a newcomer who was twelve that was just a little boy, who got talked into smoking a joint with a neighbor, who then unfortuantely went to the seed. He had only smoked one joint in his life and didn't plan on smoking more.  He was so lost in the seed, it was just awfull.  The Seed changed him to another home after 2 or 3 weeks.

yech..sorry.  I can't even remember his name.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2006, 10:05:00 PM
Hi Greg,

I don't think anyone in the world would remember me -- hardly-noticeable little introvert that I was. But I'd think someone would remember my sister, Shawn. She never surpassed "newcomer" (while I compliantly and quietly made my way to the pathetic "finish" in record time). I too had smoked only one joint prior to my forced inscription. My sister had done nothing.

I remember the race track, and then another place that seemed like a warehouse -- and the dog "Spats" and PBJ sandwiches and the cups of ice. My sister used to pssst-pssst me, and when I secretly cast a glance in her direction, she'd lob a cube of ice backwards into the endless rows -- making it difficult, in spite of my total indoctrination, to suppress my laughter.

There was a staff member named Gail, I think. The girl whose house I stayed at initially was a very-worldly 13-year-old named "Tangy."

Oh! What long-lost memories.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 23, 2006, 10:10:00 PM
By the way Greg, I'm just remembering that the Seed had my sister do a television show (some kind of kids variety show, with a boat theme of sorts, if I remember right) -- you know, the novelty of a ten-year-old druggie and such. Only, she wasn't a druggie. But who were we to question?  :smile:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 23, 2006, 10:28:00 PM
wow.  Crazy days with children locked away from their familes to "save" them.  But from what?

I went to the seed in St Pete Florida.  Does anyone else remember the TV show this fine lady's sister was on?

Could it be the Skipper Chuck show?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2006, 12:08:00 AM
Greg,

Oh, that's exactly what it was! Yes: Skipper Chuck.  It would have been in '72, I think (my sister would have been 10 or 11 at the time).

When I first posted in another thread, I said I was 13 (and my sister 12) when we entered the Seed, but she reminded me that, in fact, I was 11 and she was 10. I was 13 when I was attending oldtimer's meetings!

(Believe it or not, there was a precursor to the Seed: a program called "Here's Help" in Miami Beach, from which all of my older siblings "graduated," and then: "Operation Reentry," in which I did a very brief stint before being subcripted into the Seed.)

Of course, AA was our family "religion," so it wasn't so odd to me as it might have been to many others. Nevertheless, it turned me into a lifelong critic of anti-drug indoctrination.

My sister's and my view of all of this is more-or-less along the lines of Huckleberry Finn; i.e., the story of two young girls' adventures in the face of the impenetrable nonsense that was imposed upon us and required of us by the insane (and often sadistic) adults in our lives.

Once, my dad was called to the Seed (at the warehouse location) to "whip" my sister, with which request he was all too willing to comply. She STILL didn't "get with the program" though. In fact, to this very day, she never has.  :smile:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 24, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
your sister was ten and a veteran of three drug rehabs?

You were eleven and entered two rehabs for smoking one joint?

The whole world is stark raving fucking mad....
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 24, 2006, 05:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-23 21:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg,


Once, my dad was called to the Seed (at the warehouse location) to "whip" my sister, with which request he was all too willing to comply. She STILL didn't "get with the program" though. In fact, to this very day, she never has.  :smile:



"


Aha!  All these denials that this ever occured and now we find, low and behold, that it wasn't isolated to St Petersburg and the result of renegade staffers like Mr. Underwood would have liked us to believe..but instead embedded in the culture and practiced right at Art barkers home based rehab.

Would you please talk to your sister about posting her experience in detail about having the Seed's "love" beat into her at the request of staff?

Thank you so much...
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2006, 06:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-24 14:53:00, GregFL wrote:

"your sister was ten and a veteran of three drug rehabs?


No, it was my older siblings that were at "Here's Help."  I was at "Operation Reentry" for a a few months, and then the Seed.  

My family was lived-and-breathed "12-step programs."
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2006, 06:29:00 PM
Quote

Would you please talk to your sister about posting her experience in detail about having the Seed's "love" beat into her at the request of staff?



Thank you so much...



"


These are very old memories. I don't even know where these places were located. The place where my dad was called in to beat my sister was at the warehouse-like place, with loading docks and such (this is also the place that poor embattled Aurthur yanked her forcefully from her chair). It seems like that location directly followed the race-track location. Do you know when that move might have occurred?

As far as the beating, it definitely happened, although, as you can imagine, any parent who was willing to administer a beating in that setting was already pretty practiced at such. My dad was.

As far as my sister, as soon as she was allowed to  go home, she started writing "the Seed Sucks" all over the neighborhood. She was a real anomaly, entirely resistant to indoctrination.  She's not much of a writer though (I still laugh when I think of her four word moral inventories), so I doubt she'd post anything here.  :smile:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 24, 2006, 09:43:00 PM
you are speaking of the seed "home" on SR84, also known as "the compound" and various other monikers the press used to describe it.  It was a warehouse right before alligator alley on SR84 in Ft Lauderdale, and it had a big fence around it.  Art had a private office.  I was only there once but many here, including Ft Lauderdale, Ginger, Cleveland, and others spent many many nights of their young lives in that building.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 24, 2006, 09:51:00 PM
Im sorry.  It really wasn't a "move" per se.  Art opened the Miami location in 1973, and then closed and moved the Miami kids to the actual seed location in Ft Lauderdale.  This occured in 1973, but I don't have the date with me at this moment.

It seems you were in during the heydey of the seed.  So was I. I went in July of 73 in St Petersburg at the age of 14.  So we were seedlings at roughly the same time.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2006, 09:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-24 18:43:00, GregFL wrote:

"you are speaking of the seed "home" on SR84, also known as "the compound" and various other monikers the press used to describe it.  It was a warehouse right before alligator alley on SR84 in Ft Lauderdale, and it had a big fence around it.  Art had a private office.  I was only there once but many here, including Ft Lauderdale, Ginger, Cleveland, and others spent many many nights of their young lives in that building.



"


Having all these memories revived, I was telling a friend today about the absolutely oppressive BOREDOM of it all (which in my memory, pretty much overrides every other detail which I might have otherwise recalled). The hours and hours and hours of monotonous nonsense! Oh God, when my dad threatened to take me back there at 14, I crawled out my bedroom window and never looked back (which was in '74, when your trials and tribulations which just starting!)

The funny thing is, neither then, nor later, nor now, have I really been "into" drugs!  :smile:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2006, 10:07:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-24 18:51:00, GregFL wrote:

"Im sorry.  It really wasn't a "move" per se.  Art opened the Miami location in 1973, and then closed and moved the Miami kids to the actual seed location in Ft Lauderdale.  This occured in 1973, but I don't have the date with me at this moment.



It seems you were in during the heydey of the seed.  So was I. I went in July of 73 in St Petersburg at the age of 14.  So we were seedlings at roughly the same time.



"


Ah, I'm starting to get my bearings here. Well, I turned 13 in October of 1973 -- so I guess I was 12 when I entered the Seed, and not 11. God those years, and all of the drug rehab programs, are confusing -- especially for a kid who never took drugs!  :smile:
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 25, 2006, 12:28:00 PM
Hey,
I also got to do my turn on the Skipper Chuck Show. Just for the record though I went to the seed the first time voluntarily in 1970. I was nine years old. By the time I was the age you were when you went into the program it was 1972 and I was re-entering the program somewhat less voluntarily for the second time. In 1970 not only was I the first sub teen to ever go to the Seed there simply didn't exist a seedling population that was enrolled for attitude problems alone. Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.
Cheers
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 25, 2006, 12:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-25 09:28:00, landyh wrote:

"
Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.

Cheers "

Before anyone says it I am well aware that some of those earlier members could have inflated their drug history for egocentric purposes or further acceptance within the group but both my sister and I brought people we knew into the program and none of them would have had to create a fictitous past in order to sound "bad" enough. Beyond that I have little doubt that most of those (even the worst) eventually stopped using on there own. None that I can remember stayed clean because of the Seed. As a footnote I met a girl last night at an AA meeting who it turns out went through Safe. The conversation started with her saying something to the effect that she had been through something when she was young that I couldn't even imagine. It ended with her realising she wasn't completly alone. I pointed her in this direction and I hope she will at least take a look at what is offered here. It has helped me to begin to come to terms with how The Seed caused me to fool myself most of all.
Take care all
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: GregFL on April 25, 2006, 03:32:00 PM
Thanks Landy.  You know, sometimes when I talk to people I see things that are almost imperceptable to the average person.  An inflection maybe, a certain language style...these things often make me want to ask if they were in the seed or a seed knockoff program.  I almost never do ask the question however, even tho thousands of people our age and younger have been thru Art's style of "rehab".  The only people I really talk to about this stuff are my sister, my best friend, (who doesn't really get it), and of course, you people on this forum.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-25 09:28:00, landyh wrote:

"Hey,

I also got to do my turn on the Skipper Chuck Show. Just for the record though I went to the seed the first time voluntarily in 1970. I was nine years old. By the time I was the age you were when you went into the program it was 1972 and I was re-entering the program somewhat less voluntarily for the second time. In 1970 not only was I the first sub teen to ever go to the Seed there simply didn't exist a seedling population that was enrolled for attitude problems alone. Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.

Cheers "


Oh, did you talk about the Seed on Skipper Chuck? My sis did. They really loved the novelty of a 10- or 11-year-old "druggie."  Hmm, I must have seen you in 72. I went in voluntarily in 72 (well, I did whatever my dad said, "voluntarily," let's put it that way). Of course, I was a barely-noticeable, very-compliant and very-dorky little thing -- so no one even bothered to harass me!  :smile: You sound more like my sister (who was also getting quite "non-compliant" at 12).
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: NOT12NOW on April 26, 2006, 01:41:00 PM
Quote
As far as my sister, as soon as she was allowed to  go home, she started writing "the Seed Sucks" all over the neighborhood. She was a real anomaly, entirely resistant to indoctrination.."
 

 Interesting so they eventually gave up and let her go home?  Did she graduate?

_________________
Cleveland chick 76-77[ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-04-26 10:42 ][ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-04-26 19:30 ]
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 03:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-26 10:41:00, NOT12NOW wrote:

"

As far as my sister, as soon as she was allowed to  go home, she started writing "the Seed Sucks" all over the neighborhood. She was a real anomaly, entirely resistant to indoctrination.."
 



 
Quote
Interesting so they eventually gave up and let her go home?  Did she graduate?


I don't remember. I KNOW she never graduated (although I did) and I KNOW she never "got with the program" except in the most marginal way. I think there was a moment when they kinda made a special exception for her (like someone might for a retarded kid, or something), and let her go home. And then she ran away, and never came back (she did a stint at the Ocala State School after that).

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-04-26 19:32 ]
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: NOT12NOW on April 26, 2006, 07:06:00 PM
You are sisters, right? So she was sitting quite near you on the front row.

I love the story about how she lobed ice cubes at the rows behind her.   I love to hear about kids who fought back, sometimes I wish I had fought back too, but all in all I am glad I  protected myself the best way I knew how, invisibility and compliance.  I quickly figured out that I was dealing with an unbeatable force.  Kept my head down, my hand up and got through as fast as I could.

 

_________________
Cleveland chick 76-77[ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-04-26 16:10 ]
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 26, 2006, 09:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-25 12:32:00, GregFL wrote:

"Thanks Landy.  You know, sometimes when I talk to people I see things that are almost imperceptable to the average person.  An inflection maybe, a certain language style...".  The only people I really talk to about this stuff are my sister, my best friend, (who doesn't really get it), and of course, you people on this forum.



"

Funny I kind of feel like someone who went through something kinda unimaginable to most people much like the girl I mentioned. But your thoughts here made me think about how I was feeling after this somewhat revelatory conversation I had. Mostly about how this girl has always seemed a little bit distant to me. I had always thought she didn't really like me (telling as well) but her disclosure made me look at her behavior in an entirely different way. Also I found it interesting to watch how she literally came to life as she started describing her experiences in Safe. Much worse really in many ways than mine at the Seed but in the end I could see it coming even before she said "but it probably saved my life" and I got that same sick feeling in my stomach that began with my initial experience with this forum as I started to recognize how much I may have been fooling myself. Seeing it in someone else made it all the more obvious. I generally don't talk about my experiences outside of here except in passing to AA friends and of course my sister who was there with me. Funny though but before I found this place I don't think we had discussed our mutual experiences in over 25 years
Take Care
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 26, 2006, 09:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-25 16:35:00, Anonymous wrote:








Oh, did you talk about the Seed on Skipper Chuck? My sis did. They really loved the novelty of a 10- or 11-year-old "druggie."  Hmm, I must have seen you in 72. I went in voluntarily in 72 (well, I did whatever my dad said, "voluntarily," let's put it that way). Of course, I was a barely-noticeable, very-compliant and very-dorky little thing -- so no one even bothered to harass me!  :smile: You sound more like my sister (who was also getting quite "non-compliant" at 12).  "


Skipper Chuck did a little mini interview with me and asked about my "druggie past". We were anomalies to be into drugs so young back then. I thought it was pretty cool in one way but I remember being a little concerned about being percieved as a narc by my old friends even though I didn't talk about anybody specifically on the show other than myself. I would think I would have had to have seen you in 72' but I can't remember anybody that young. There was one 12 year old boy that I took home with me for a night and I don't remember why he didn't stay any longer. Don't remember his name either. sigh! As to being non-compliant. Well I went in the second time very angry and rebellious but it didn't take me long (that and a failed escape) to see that I wouldn't get out of there if I didn't talk the talk. In the end though I bought back into it and that is probably what troubles me most now.














[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-04-26 19:28 ]
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 27, 2006, 11:17:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-26 18:53:00, landyh wrote:




Skipper Chuck did a little mini interview with me and asked about my "druggie past". We were anomalies to be into drugs so young back then. I thought it was pretty cool in one way but I remember being a little concerned about being percieved as a narc by my old friends even though I didn't talk about anybody specifically on the show other than myself. I would think I would have had to have seen you in 72' but I can't remember anybody that young. There was one 12 year old boy that I took home with me for a night and I don't remember why he didn't stay any longer. Don't remember his name either. sigh! As to being non-compliant. Well I went in the second time very angry and rebellious but it didn't take me long (that and a failed escape) to see that I wouldn't get out of there if I didn't talk the talk. In the end though I bought back into it and that is probably what troubles me most now.





[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-04-26 19:28 ]"


Were you there when the Miami Seed moved to Ft. Lauderdale? That's the exact time frame when we were there. Like I've said, I wouldn't have been noticed much, but I think you'd remember my sister, because she'd make such scenes. Little brunette. She used to sit on her hands to avoid holding hands during singing, and the other kids would more or less "hold hands by force" with her.

As far as selling out, my sister still accuses me (lovingly) of being a sellout. We have a sense of humor about all of it. I say, "I was just playing along!" And she says, "NO, you were really INTO IT."  Geez, maybe I was. It's hard to tell, at that age. I'm not hard on myself about it though. We were kids (so were you!).
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 28, 2006, 04:41:00 PM
Quote

Were you there when the Miami Seed moved to Ft. Lauderdale? That's the exact time frame when we were there. Like I've said, I wouldn't have been noticed much, but I think you'd remember my sister, because she'd make such scenes. Little brunette. She used to sit on her hands to avoid holding hands during singing, and the other kids would more or less "hold hands by force" with her.



As far as selling out, my sister still accuses me (lovingly) of being a sellout. We have a sense of humor about all of it. I say, "I was just playing along!" And she says, "NO, you were really INTO IT."  Geez, maybe I was. It's hard to tell, at that age. I'm not hard on myself about it though. We were kids (so were you!).



"

I sort of remember some talk at the time about the blimp hanger closing and being somewhat dismayed or saddened by it. I can't remember your sister from your description but in spite of having a pretty good memory about alot of things I have noticed that my seed memories are fuzzy in several areas. Every once in a while someone will come in here and say something that triggers a whole bunch of old memories for me. If you and your sister were there when I was and cute I would have noticed both of you.LOL! I keep thinking I don't remember any girls that young but maybe you didn't look that young? Someone who really stood out to me was a black guy that was almost 7' tall. Seems I remember him watching the door for obvious reasons (no one would try to get past him) and that the rumor was he was going to be a pro basketball player. Can't remember if it was drugs or an injury that derailed his aspirations.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
Quote
Someone who really stood out to me was a black guy that was almost 7' tall. Seems I remember him watching the door for obvious reasons (no one would try to get past him) and that the rumor was he was going to be a pro basketball player. Can't remember if it was drugs or an injury that derailed his aspirations. "


Was that the staff member Arthur?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 29, 2006, 01:17:00 AM
Quote



Was that the staff member Arthur?  "

I am not sure. While Arthur's name seems vaguely familiar as well as some of the stories I have seen here about him I don't know if they could be the same person or not. Since I don't specifically remember Arthur it's hard to tell and somehow I got the impression, which could be wrong, that Arthur was somewhat older. I think the guy I am talking about was around 27. Even that I am not sure of.
The thing about this guy that was most memorable was his size. I had never seen anybody that big before (nor many since). I think he might have had jail over his head when he came to the seed and possibly came from Georgia and was soft spoken. Wasn't Arthur from New York?
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: TRUCKER on April 29, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
Yes,that was Authur. His heart was as big as he was. He was intimidating due to his size.

        TRUCKER
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: landyh on April 29, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-04-29 09:18:00, TRUCKER wrote:

"Yes,that was Authur. His heart was as big as he was. He was intimidating due to his size.



        TRUCKER"

Thanks for clearing that up. Was my memory serving me well in thinking he was at one time an NBA or at least full scholarship college level hopeful? Seems to me he had a bad knee injury.
Title: some specific staff members
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
Quote
If you and your sister were there when I was and cute I would have noticed both of you.LOL! I keep thinking I don't remember any girls that young but maybe you didn't look that young?


Well, I was a dorky 12-year-old redhead, if that rings a bell.   :smile:
Title: Re: some specific staff members
Post by: lonewolf on May 11, 2012, 11:53:51 PM
One person on this post seems to have total recall of staff members from St.Pete......I knew all those staff...as I was there for awhile....Once the names were mentioned, it was like a flashback....damm