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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Unfortunately the postings about physical abuse have been taken out of context. I am not trying to say that the physical abuse of the kids in the program was a cornerstone of the program. In addition I am not insinuating that it occured on a regular basis. However, I am saying that it happend. Any former staff member who denies this is simply not telling the truth.

From time to time kids would try to bolt. The were physically restrained and in some cases literally dragged back to the group or to the offices and then to the group. I can remember seeing kids get half way across the race track, at Tropical Park race track, and then dragged back forcefully.

Other times kids parents were brought in to beat or disipline their kids. This happend in the offices away from the group. As I indicated in other post because I was a small guy I would be assigned to bathroom sign in, as oppossed to sitting at a regular security post or door, and I could hear, not see, the beatings. There were blood curdling screams coming from the offices.

On other occassions staff members simply lost their cool and racked up a kid. I am not saying they broke any bones or caused permanent physical damage. In my particular case I was physically tackled to the ground,held down by Robert Chun and a staffer named Mike, and had my hair cut, while screaming, crying and kicking, by a female staff member. This occured at Tropical Park. Chun also knocked the crap out of me a few times at SR 84.  John Underwood also would do crap like twist me by the ears , or grab me by the back of the neck, and physically drag me from the group. He never punched me in the mouth or broke any bones.

Having said all that, it is basically irrelevant to this discussion. The real harm of the Seed, Straight and others that followed was the psychological harm. This was a thousand times worse than being slapped around a little or being bounced off a few walls. The psychological damage last forever. That is what draws people to this website.

The whole notion or premise of the Seed and other copy cat programs is so ill concieved, in terms of the pyschological dimensions, that it is mind boggling. The "one size fits all" or "this is the way to straighten out kids/young adults" approach is a farce. Everybody is different but the Seed didnt take that approach. It was a "CULT" in every sense of the word. Everybody had to buy into to the same shit or face the fury of the staff and group. As a 14-15 year old, my age when in the program, this had a dramtic and profound effect on my life. Being in the program over a year didnt help much either. Why Underwood and others cant see it is beyond comprehension.

While I realize it will never happen, but I would bet a legitimate psychological study would reveal a high level of some kind of post traumatic stress symtoms among the young participants of the Seed. In other words alot of the psychological damage didnt rear its ugly head until years later. The participants probably needed more help after they completed the program than prior to their entry in it.



[ This Message was edited by:  on 2005-09-11 07:11 ]

Ginger :

The Mariel boat lift was in 1980 which was about 6 1/2 years after Barker pulled out of Dade County. When I was there , the last few months of Dade, there were not many Cuban's or other Latinos in the program.

As far as the Seed being less brutal, based on what I have read on the Straight board, the accounts of you and many others, I think Straight was way worse. This would be based on the amount of physical and psycological abuse and the length of time spent in the program. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to praise the Seed I just think Straight was even more extreme.

Entered May, 1973 at Tropical Race track facility in Dade then off to Broward (State Road 84) when they closed Dade, graduated July, 1974. I was the rebellious type and was put on refresher once and started over once. Never had any newcomers. Had numerous old comers. After I graduated I went to a few old timers raps and drifted away.

Back in 1973-1974 Art Barker and the staff at the Seed were spewing a bunch of bs about how the Seed was going to save the world. There were going be Seeds everywhere. We were the lucky ones because we were getting in at the ground level. There would be rap sessions about how the Seed was going to save the world and that we would be a part of it because we had "awareness" and the rest of the outside world didn't have a clue.

This was all part of the indoctrination process of the cult.

Looking back on it now Art Barker might have been able to save the world if cloning were around then. All he had to do was clone John Underwood , about 3,000 times , and ship him to all corners of the country and the world be enlightened and then saved. You must keep in mind that Underwood got it , while most didn't, and he and he alone could have saved the world. We just needed more of him.

Greg he doesn't deny allegations because he knows they are true. I brought up the three year old post the other day to prove a point. The point being that I made the allegations in response to a question posed by you when I first posted on this site. More importantly another person, who was there at the time, confirmed the incident nearly thirty years after it occurred.

Furthermore, as you know Greg, when I allowed by name ect.. to be used by the reporter who was working on a free lance story to confront Robert Chun with the allegations he conceded that kids were sometimes beaten in the Seed and they he may have administered the beatings. I am certainly don't lay claim to being the only one , I am one of many.

I note, with interest, that rather than deny my allegations he dismissed them as lawyers are liars. If I am a liar it is not because I am lawyer. It appears to be than Mr. Underwood is simply trying to rationalize or minimize his own behavior and role in the Seed. He also seems to think he is still the rap leader by controling the conversation and going on these rants and raves about Catholic schools ec...

As far as the me, me me or I, I, I commnet , let me just say this surving ther Seed or one of it's spin offs was purely a personal experience. Each one of us have dealt with it differently. But when we post about it we can only relate our own experiences not everyone elses. The original reason I posted on this site, and read others post, was just to confirm to others what I has went through and to see what others went through and how they dealt with it over time.
 
By the way John Underwood is a disgraceful human being !

For John_Ft.Pierce, this brings an old thread back to the top. , note the date is was originally posted. More than three years before scumbag Underwood showed up on this site.

First, I will give you credit for having the guts to post on this website.

However, some of the stuff you said simply is not true. I was physically beaten by you and Robert Chun in 1973 and 1974 in the Seed. The beatings took place at the old Tropical Park Race track facility and on State Road 84. When interviewed by a reporter several years ago Chun admitted it when confronted with the allegations.

In addition to being physically beaten you also tried to mentally destroy me on a number of occassions. You were not qualified to do what you were doing. You had no training, and like many of you colleagues on staff, were way more pathetic than the people you were attempting to help.

The Seed was based on a bunch of lies and falacies. Low rent maggots, such as yourself, perpretrated those lies on our parents and anyone else who would actually listen to your garbage. Our parents were scared and the slime that was on staff played on their fears. Most of us were to young to defend ourselves. The ones who fought, such as myself, paid dearly. If I knew then what I now know about the law I would own your worthless ass forever.

You can say whatever you want about what you and the other scumbags who were on staff did during your years in the Seed but the bottom line is that you were more full of shit than almost any human being who ever trod the face of the earth.You had an ego the size of the Grand Canyon. Nothing that you and Art Barker predicted would happen ever came to pass. Whenever a government entity or newspaper investigated the Seed, gutless cowards such as yourself and Barker, ran for cover.

I found the parts of your post very humorous. Prticularly the part about you and the other imcompetent morons thinking that Straight was dangerous. I guess a bunch of fried out junkies trying to pretend they knew what they were doing, and running a rehab, was completely safe.




[ This Message was edited by:  on 2005-08-07 17:51 ]

When looking back I always thought Underwood was the brains and backbone of the Seed. He was very clever and could be very mean. He had a very confrontive approach and method. I believe this was from other rehabs.  It seemed like his role was to deal with (break down) the real hard asses. He was legendary in his day.

I always felt alot of the methods used by the Seed were from either Pete ( a cross eyed Ialian dude) or Underwood.