Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 25, 2002, 02:15:00 AM

Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2002, 02:15:00 AM
I would like to start by simply asking each of you who take the time to read this post to imagine a hypothetical situation. I apologize in advance for the seemingly crude nature but it is the closest analogy that I could come up with. Please bear with me, there is a point that I believe needs to be made.
   Two women are brutally raped. Both are stripped of their dignity, sense of security and are forever scarred by the experience. The first struggles against her assailant with all her strength but is overcome in the end. The second lies silent and motionless, hoping only that her compliance will bring this nightmare she is experiencing to a quick end and that she might live to see another day.
   My question to each of you is who among you have the audacity to judge which of them is the greater victim?
    For those of you who wear your ?mis-behaving?, cop-outs, and general non-conformity to the program as some demented badge of honor and seem to assert that you were the only ?true? victims of Straight, I ask you consider that others who acted in complete conformity, also just wanting the nightmare to end, to the SAME abusive tactics did so at an EQUALLY high price. A price that may not have been paid to the degree at which you suffered while actually in the program but one that has demanded payment each and every day that has followed.
   I began searching out sites such as this one around two weeks ago in an effort to begin facing issues that have haunted me and drastically affected nearly every aspect of my life. Deep inside I?ve always known they were a product of my experience at Straight but have found the experience of remembering those days to painful to seem worthwhile. Thinking that maybe I was far enough removed from the experience that I could begin searching for answers I found myself here.
    Though I have sincerely appreciated the comments, replies, and insight from many of your posts, the events of this past week (sleepless nights, nightmares when I have managed to fall asleep, loss of appetite, mental and physical exhaustion, fits of rage followed by extreme depression and most of all the feeling of being back in a group environment where one can reveal the deepest part of his or herself only to have their words twisted and turned against them, so reminiscent of Straight) I have decided it?s time to get back to the business of living my daily life with a focus on the future rather than the past.
   To anyone new to facing the issues of your past concerning Straight and also new to these sites, I strongly advise you to PRECEDE WITH CAUTION!!!! Though I am certain that most of the people here and other related sites desire only to promote healing both in their lives and the lives of others, I am equally certain that there are those whose intentions are quite the opposite. The problem arises of trying to discern who is who and doing so is difficult, at best, in this context. The old saying stands true ? hurt people hurt people? though probably in most case unintentionally. It is just a result of throwing this many people together that have ALL suffered at the hands of abuse. I believe a safer environment, such as one on one therapy with an OBJECTIVE professional, is probably a better option for anyone in the beginning stages of coming to terms with such extremely deep, personal and emotional issues. This is simply MY opinion and what I have learned from this whole experience. Along with fifty cents it?ll buy you a coke but my intentions are to maybe save someone the pain and confusion that I have experienced over these past two weeks.
     To those of you who plan to take Sembler head on, I pray for your success. I hope to be healed and whole enough one day to join you in the fight without it consuming me, something I do not believe I am capable of at this point.
       This will be my final post. I pray God blesses each of you and grants you the truth, justice and most of all peace that you desire and deserve.
                                                                     
                                                                                                     Sincerely,
                                                                                                               Marc Shelton
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: hedwigfan on October 25, 2002, 08:03:00 AM
we were all victims. we all suffered. we all deserve to heal. there is strength in numbers, but this is not accomplished by casting stones.
"When the Way is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos...
What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost, however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret." Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Carmel on October 25, 2002, 09:54:00 AM
Wish you all the best of luck Marc, and I am sorry for your pain.  I hope you find the strength to meet your goals and possibly come back here once in a while.

Try to keep in mind that a healing process is more often than not filled with painful memories and experiences.  Dont sell yourself short trying too hard to avoid pain in recovery.  I agree with you that the harshness can get a bit deep around here, but by the same token, we have the freedom to defy it and make  a stand without fear of physical or mental retribution.  Thats something we most certainly did NOT have in Straight.  Going back and facing those situations all over again, and being able reject them with confidence can be a great healing tool.

Again, good luck to you and yours,

Carmel
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: from dallas on October 25, 2002, 11:17:00 AM
I agree with Anon. I was as compliant as I possibly could have been, to the extent that I started losing my sense of reality, doubting my motives constantly, haunted by the possibility that I was FOS in some way. I admitted to things I wasn't even sure if I was guilty of to clear my conscience. I lost all sense of who I was, which affects me to this day.

One of my ex-boyfriends made a comment to me about how he would never have complied - basically saying that I was a dork for going along with everything. I am by nature the type of person that respects authority, trusts those older than me, etc.  At 15 all I knew was that I was scared and wanted to go home - obeying seemed the best route.

I think it is a blessing that I was so naive while I was there that I didn't realize how completely messed up it all was. I was too young to look at the experience objectively at the time, which in some way protected me from feeling as violated as I was.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Jeff from Houston on October 25, 2002, 12:29:00 PM
My Wife thinks that I caved in at Straight & gave them what they wanted. I was not strong enough to Misbehave or run away. But she lacks the understanding of why I did give in & just get out.  

I was far too young, too weak & too afraid to put up a fight against these Tyrants of treatment. I wanted to hide & be invisible. Sleep & day dreams became my only reality for my entire tenure. I wanted out.... After Graduation I never came back for any kind of Straight treatment, I was finally free from Hell. I cut all ties when any of my fellow phasers & grads in 6 months time.

Then again since Straight I have only been to Medical Doctor twice for a new job drug test & have never sought any  meeting or formal care for myself in any respect.
It's a damn shame that they still control this part of my life today. I learned along time ago that it only takes one distorted opinion to change your life forever.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Antigen on October 25, 2002, 12:44:00 PM
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie, good doggie!" till you can get away.

I complied most of the time for two years. The only time I wasn't complying was when, on several occasions, I was in the act of splitting.

Getting back to the rapist analogy, though, what has sucked most about the experience has been having my family try and convince me that it wasn't all that bad and that maybe I deserved it. They honestly can't understand why I find such sentiments so completely insulting, hurtful and intolerable. And I'm sure they talk about their poor, loser, druggie sister in Group (AA meetings) to this day.

So I've left them with my rapist by their choice. Now, flash forward 20 years into the future. What happens when you run into your rapist and find that not only are they still free but they actually occupy positions of authority over you and your kids and all at tax payor expense?
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: dreammagician on October 25, 2002, 02:18:00 PM
Sounds exactly like my family. They tried so hard putting me down over the years they forgot maybe I got sometin good to give every once and a while. I'd love to stick it right back in the freakin face.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: 85 Day Jerk on October 25, 2002, 07:40:00 PM
"When you can no longer feel pain, you no longer feel anything."  This is what Dr. Berger said to Conrad in the climatic scene
near the end of the movie "Ordinary People" It is simply amazing that I saw this movie with both parents and on a 4th phase permission no less, and still my parents remained clueless as to what was going on with us as a family.
     I wholeheartedly agree that individual therapy is the best thing.  There are ways to make the gov't pick up the tab on the cost of it as well.  As for wearing our reputation as a rebel to the program, yeah, I am not ashamed that I caused problems, but I was'nt stupid enough to push it to the point of physical abuse directed onto me.  I also eventually complied and went along with the program, and that is what makes me dangerous, because the jerk in me really never died.  These forums are a lot like a little school kid showing off a loose tooth.
The more he plays with it the closer it comes to falling out, and all he is left with after that is an empty space.  Eventually the new tooth emerges, but his schoolyard buddies have all lost interest and life goes on, and if his mother is not some drunken haggard who spent her teenage years in a harmful drug abuse program and never learned to set aside the past and make a new future, that kid may get a special treat under his pillow to make up for the loss of the tooth.  If only it were so simple for us.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: LIFE 82 on October 25, 2002, 08:32:00 PM
This site is designed to rape you of your memories of the program,to give content to this sorry (yawn) website,for others to benifit from.If you receive help,then you may be healed,and that is not good for the "Sembler fighters".As long as you stay sick then they can exploit your suffering to further thier "cau$e".If you get healed then you serve no purpose to this forum.These "straights" work on you today the same way they did during your "intake".
WHO IS MORE DAMAGED?1 week or 1 year of torture does not make a difference.I would rather be trapped on a life raft at sea with a misbehaver rather than a weak  "phaser",thats for sure.As far as who suffered more,there is no way of measuring that.Im sure that when I was misbehaving I physicaly assaulted as many people as everyone else,if not more.Who is willing to exploit you today?It probobly wont be a "misbehaver"(not many of us around).
The good thing about these websites is now there is something you can download and print to show others the UNBELIEVABLE goings on at these programs.If you are wanting to be healed,go as far from these people as you can.They are still as devious as the day they forced you to sign the intake paper.I NEVER FORCED ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING BUT GET THIER CREEPY HANDS OFF OF ME.If thats a Misbehavers Badge of Honour then I am proud to wear it.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: wayeast on October 26, 2002, 04:22:00 PM
While I think the point of this thread is well-taken, I think the rape analogy falls short, and here's why.  Rapists don't keep at their victims until the victims actually believe the rapist is right to attack them. I don't know about the rest of you, but my decision to conform wasn't just because I had few choices; I pretty quickly came to actually believe in Straight.  I hate that fact, but it's true, and I'm not going to beat myself up about this late in the game.

While I admire the handful of people who rebelled more or less consistently, I can't and won't judge those who conformed consistently either. Even those teenagers who ended up in staff.  (The paid adults at the program can go to hell.)

It's easy to look back a decade or two after the fact and say "man, I can't believe I went along with that," but to do so forgets that we were inexperienced teenagers under constant attack. Most adults in their thirties and forties wouldn't know how to respond to that kind of nightmare, and they would end up conforming too. That's one way cults are formed.

And we were handicapped in one other important way.  Most of us had screwed up somehow before going to Straight, and Straight threw that in our faces as proof that we shouldn't trust our own judgment.  We came into the program hobbled with self-doubt, and they used it for all it was worth.

To the man whose wife judges him for not rebelling at Straight, I feel bad for you, because this woman is clueless.  Anyone who thinks they'd have responded differently as an unprepared teenager coming under that kind of pressure is just ignorant.  Only a tiny handful consistently rebelled at Straight;even those who are proudest of their rebellion (and with good reason) probably conformed the majority of the time.
The important thing in my mind is that none of us would do it the same way again. It would be interesting to know how many of us former conformists are now the ones who ask tough questions at meetings where everyone else is afraid to speak up.  I actually get kind of a creepy feeling when I'm at a meeting where everybody agrees with each other.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: kaydeejaded on October 26, 2002, 05:11:00 PM
Well I conformed until I could not conform anymore then I misbehaved until I could not do that anymore then I lied and "worked" my program until 3rd phase then I ran and came back and misbehaved again. I don't think any particular thing I did was right or more couragous but it was so much easier to misbehave then to conform (for me) because the physical pain of restraints and mental of isolation was easier then standing up and playing that fucking game all the time. I was 14 there for 13mons and shipped to a looney bin. I still have great love for my misbehavor friends but no less respect for those who conformed.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Tampa survivor on October 26, 2002, 11:03:00 PM
Way east, my Atl colleague nails it again.  Rarely do rape victims conform, then decide to continue help more rapes to occur.  
I misbehaved, sat and conformed as needed. Whatever worked at the time.  Most of the time it had a common goal...I WANT THE FUCK OUTTA HERE.  I just couldn't play that game to the 7step...
Human nature is a trip too.  In college, I saw SO many people, of all ages who wouldn't dare go, speak, or chance something first.  Many are weak.  That is where exploitation becomes possible.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2002, 12:37:00 AM
This has been the first helpful thread in a while.  First for the rape analogy, and the question of which victim suffers more.  I went along -- because I thought I had no other choice, and because I was quickly brainwashed.  I have my "because"s, but they are not good enough; they will never be enough to undo the shame of having gone along UNTIL I UNDERSTAND BRAINWASHING AND CULT MIND CONTROL.

Until then, I will continue to see myself as weak and feel humiliated and ashamed at the thought that I went along.

To this day there are threads on this board that reveal confusion about the issue of brainwashing and cults.

That was the first helpful thing and there were some others too but I forget now.

In one way I see the point about a seeking professional help, but on the other hand, in my experience, some of them are professional mind rapists.  See books by Alice Miller on the whole subject of psychoanalysis.  Plus a lot of us are paranoid which sets up a kind of catch-22 thing.

Aren't we all looking for an expert, some authority to say in a booming voice "YOU WERE RIGHT AND STRAIGHT WAS WRONG!"  Don't we know that already?  

Well, I guess we don't, or we wouldn't pain ourselves further.  I think there is a document on Wes' website describing the brainwashing tactics known by the US government and used precisely on us in Straight.

Hey, great question -- if we were all brilliantly happy now, could we still sue?

OF COURSE!  So quit frowning, Big Brother isn't watching to make sure you are not happy!

Y'all are freakin' cracked in the head. I jes' love it.

AH HA HA!  I love insulting people I have never met before!  I am the great and powerful Oz!  I can type words like "whiner" and "complainer", or say "let's have a song", and watch you fall to the floor weeping and gnashing your teeth!
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2002, 12:57:00 AM
Good God, this forum is like "Lord of the Flies" online!
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2002, 01:14:00 AM
This forum has done nothing but go downhill in the last few weeks. It amazes me that there are still people out there who prey on other's issues. I think it is a real shame that even the so called "Antigen" is not able to be a bit more compassionate., and for that matter, you contradict yourself. AS for the Dreammagician, well you are still just about as sick as you were in Straight. too bad that after all these years, neither of you are able to be a bit more HUMAN
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: METALGOD8 on October 27, 2002, 09:17:00 AM
OK anonymous, but at least we have evolved enough to place a name on our existence. What genus of creature are you?
Not to sound too straightlike, but BE SPECIFIC. What about this forum appears to be going downhill? Why are you able to describe us as being other than human while you have no face?
 When dealing with survivors of bad cults, it is entirely possible that the victims, including myself, could have had their minds altered to the point where normal thoughts are unable to be processed. I have researched brainwashing enough to know that it can take up to 20 or more years to wear off. In the meantime anonymous, I would suggest placing a face of some type on your existence in this forum, otherwise, your statements may become moot points floating in cyberspace. I think it's time for a brake job, that's an awfully long hill up ahead!   MG8
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: dreammagician on October 27, 2002, 06:19:00 PM
Oh master let me bend down and kiss your shoes. I will work on being human for the sake of your reccomendation. Thanks for the insight its been real pleasuralble. Oh, by the way keep up the good work.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: LIFE 82 on October 27, 2002, 07:39:00 PM
I realized it at Buchanwald Concentration Camp,humans do terrible things to other humans,especialy when they are being human.Its my human gets me blues.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: LIFE 82 on October 27, 2002, 07:40:00 PM
I realized it at Buchanwald Concentration Camp,humans do terrible things to other humans,especialy when they are being human.Its my human gets me blues.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2002, 10:10:00 PM
Hey I happen to like Antigen and her posts.  I do not think that she is not compassionate.  I get the impression that she is more intellectual than sentimental.  That is equally valid.  Golden Retriever vs. German Shepherd.

And I also enjoyed dreammagician's post in this thread, and probably others by the same too although I can't remember specifically.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Bitchizbak on October 27, 2002, 10:18:00 PM
I cannot believe that there are people out there who condone the words expressed here on this forum. Such a shame that there are people out there who are still stuck in the same mentality that was brainwashed into us in Straight. I see more and more of it every time I read this shit.
Bill, you think you are right about everything.
Antigen, you set up a site that is nothing more than a "years later" excuse to execute the same torment that we all suffered in that place........
Dream....who is it that you are bowing down to to kiss their shoes? Did you not do enough of that in Straight?
Gawds... this place is a cult within itself.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: the other anonymous on October 27, 2002, 10:35:00 PM
I'm confused.  What is everyone so upset about?  I thought this whole thread was particularly lovely -- started with some very insightful comments including the rape analogy, then others chimed in each with their own perspective.  I looked back at Antigen and dreammagician's posts -- so they are mad at their families -- what is the big deal?  No one can express anger here?  What is this about Lord of the Flies and this forum going downhill and all that?  

The thing I noticed a while back is that people will get harsh on this board from time to time.  Luckily, one can simply hit the x at the top right hand corner of the screen and POOF! everyone goes away and one can pleasantly resume with teatime.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Tampa survivor on October 27, 2002, 11:17:00 PM
Bitchonourback said " Bill, you think you are right about everything.

Antigen, you set up a site that is nothing more than a "years later" excuse to execute the same torment that we all suffered in that place........

Dream....who is it that you are bowing down to to kiss their shoes? Did you not do enough of that in Straight?

Gawds... this place is a cult within itself." ENDQUOTE

Well, a little flaming troll with a new post name. You probably one of those who have 4 different AOL names/personalities for your chatroom life...."Hi, I'm cute and rich but sitting here IMing....

Okay, you hack on Ginger, stupid move.  I respect her words, especially when I disagree with them, proving you wrong on your attempted rip on me.  

Yes, I AM RIGHT alot. Or at least I think so. Does that BOTHER you?  Does it hurt your FEELINGS. Post something other than flaming shit, and I will gladly discuss it. More than one person has seen me mea culpa here...maybe you haven't been around long enough to know.

Finally, you rip Jeff for bowing down.  Well, that's RICH. CAN YOU NOT SEE SARCASM WHEN YOU SEE IT?  DUH.  Jeff and I were in St Pete together in 1981...bowing down was not his thing, but THINKING was and it led to him being seriously screwed with by the program.  

Please engage your brain before you jam your mouth in gear next time.

Bill

12/80-12/82

St Pete & Atlanta  



[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-10-28 14:05 ]
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: ClayL on October 28, 2002, 01:50:00 PM
It is my opinion that people, in the course of their lives, will disagree with others around them. From time to time. What straight took from me was my ability to form my own opinions and, with normal trail and error, my own moral code. Today, I have my OWN moral code. It was formed through my OWN life experiences. I have my OWN opinions which I feel no need to constrain. That people disagree with me, in my opinion is their problem. They are entitled to their opinions however misguided they may be.



This site has reminded me of many things I had forgotten. It has given me the opportunity to deal with and put these issues away. I don't find everything I read here useful, informative, or something I had to know. Like most everyone else, I like to tell the war stories. I would not call this "living in the past," I call them good stories.



In short, opinions are like asshole, every one has one and most of them stink.



CL

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2002-10-28 13:26 ]
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2002, 07:38:00 PM
Shane's post really made me think. You know, there were actually people who came to Straight because they wanted help. These were mostly older adolescents/young adults. I suppose I was one of them. Of course, when I tried to sign out, I was lied to about being court-ordered, but still, I had screwed things up pretty badly for myself and had hurt my family deeply. I don't think I deserved to spend 14 months in Straight, but I'm not sure my parents felt they had any other options. I can't fault them for that, no matter how upset it makes me that they still have their old friends from Straight and think Straight saved my life. I know better than that. I was too old to misbehave, although I tried it once. After 5 months on 1st phase, I guess I conformed because I, too, wanted out. Conformity is a complex concept because it implies acting in accordance with the standards of a particular group. Depending on which group you identified with, the "group-at-large", or the misbehavers, pretty much everybody  conformed in one way or another. We all conform still--otherwise, we wouldn't work, wouldn't vote, wouldn't follow rules, etc.                                           For those of you who despise ex-staff and anyone who worked the program, all I can say is, good luck with the anti-Straight movement. I think you may lose some valuabe support for the cause. The majority of the former staff who've posted on this site have taken responsibility for their actions, yet come away relentlessly criticized and judged.
  I think this "rivalry" between those who split &/or misbehaved and those who didn't is juvenile and a real waste of time and energy. Yeah, it's amusing sometimes to rehash the stories of the past, but I think it's infinitely more interesting and stimulating to hear how people are working through the problems which still interfere with life today. That's progress. Everyone deserves to progress with their lives. Every one of us was victimized in some way; we all shoulder the burden of Straight's legacy. None of us has the right to attempt to quantify another's pain.
  Another thing that is troublesome has been the allusions to the Nazi party and concentration camps. It is offensive, inappropriate and irresponsible to compare what happened in Straight with the mass genocide which occurred in Eastern Europe. Those of us who actually lost family or have personal friends who survived the camps know this is true. You cannot understand this by merely visiting a camp.
  I do think that most people who stumble onto this website are looking for answers or are trying to make sense out of the past. Does it bother anyone else that the personal attacks which occur here may push someone over the edge? There's a lot of talk about the Straight suicides of the past...how is this scenario any different? Yeah, it's easy to say, "Well, just quit visiting this site." My question is, was Pandora able to close her box?
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: hedwigfan on October 28, 2002, 07:41:00 PM
That last post was by me--I forgot to log in.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2002, 08:23:00 PM
Don't blame the players blamme the game !!!
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Tampa survivor on October 28, 2002, 08:50:00 PM
Hedwigfan wrote: Another thing that is troublesome has been the allusions to the Nazi party and concentration camps. It is offensive, inappropriate and irresponsible to compare what happened in Straight with the mass genocide which occurred in Eastern Europe. ENDQUOTE
Kris, I am sorry that you may have gotten that impression when I stated the fact that we have prosecuted simple Nazi guards 55 years later for war crimes and ruined their lives for something they did when "everybody else" was doing it a long time ago. This was in context to should former staff be off the hook today just because they "went along". The Jews rightly hunted their tormentors after the war to all corners of the globe to stand trial in Nuremburg, and subsequently elsewhere, perfecting the "we don't care HOW long it has been prosecution".
I feel sorry for the gypsies, other minorities, and Jews who fell to Hitler.  Stalins purges were at least 4x deadlier and as vile.  Today in Sharon's Israel/former Palestine it continues.
China is its own basket case as well as most of Africa.
Straight compares only in that it was tyranny.  I want to be clear on that.    
ALL TYRANNY IS BULLSHIT!
When one man forces another with coercion or force, to take his land or resist his mind, I abhor it.
As an MD or DO, you know that conformity is NOT the pathway to healthy behavioral/psychological healing.  
As for the anti-straight "movement", I will speak for ME:  as long as drug policy is influenced by the DFAF, and programs like SAFE, WWASP, and the Brown schools exist, WE as a society still have a problem. Coercion is NEVER the answer.
Anybody who agrees with that is on the same side as me.
Bill
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: hedwigfan on October 28, 2002, 09:47:00 PM
You've taken what I said about conformity out of context.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Tampa survivor on October 28, 2002, 10:45:00 PM
Sorry Kris...I re-read your post and I think that I get that part now.  Punk rockers conform with other pink haired multi-stapled "non-conformists", etc.
It is complex. You are right; my vascillation between multiple rise up phase/split was much more complex and painful than a simple, consistent "I want out".
Am I getting it now?
Bill
PS anon....SEE THAT>>I SAID I AM SORRY AND KRIS WAS RIGHT. She is right.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2003, 10:28:00 AM
Forgiving staff members at straight could be an impossibility to some people. How can one forgive people for torturing and dementing the minds of children especially if that mind is your own. These staff members (staff trainees not included)were there of their own free will.  They knew what they were doing.  I quess they could plead insanity, but that doesnt help what they did to people.  Sometimes sorry is just not enough.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2003, 10:48:00 AM
SYNONYMS: forgive, pardon, excuse, condone These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: ?Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them? (Oscar Wilde). Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned. To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: ?There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse? (J.A. Froude). To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.  

In my mind, most on this post have already forgiven staff because they "don't demand punishment"
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: beckyuga on January 30, 2003, 12:45:00 PM
Just curious....why staff and not staff trainees?
Becky
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2003, 05:07:00 AM
I think most would agree that we only have problems with jr or sr staff that still belive in straight.  No remorse from them at all!

Heck we all deserved it right????
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Majiktrvls on January 31, 2003, 08:49:00 AM
On 2003-01-31 02:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think most would agree that we only have problems with jr or sr staff that still belive in straight.  No remorse from them at all!
There have been several former Staff members on this site who have previously apologized to any and all for the misdeeds that they were involved in towards the various groups. Some of these persons still are haunted with the remorse of the happenings in group, some are still dealing with the nightmares of every word and action that they took. Please reread former posts before catagorizing and placing judgement on ALL former staff members.
Heck we all deserved it right????
I don't think you will find one individual on here that believes that we all deserved the treatment that we recieved. If they believe that, they are most likely not to be found here. Either that, or they are in closets silently watching the goings on, I have yet to hear anyone express that sentiment.



"
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Antigen on January 31, 2003, 05:02:00 PM

On 2003-01-31 05:49:00, Majiktrvls wrote:I don't think you will find one individual on here that believes that we all deserved the treatment that we recieved. If they believe that, they are most likely not to be found here. Either that, or they are in closets silently watching the goings on, I have yet to hear anyone express that sentiment.




No, I don't think anyone who regularly posts here would say that. However, Brian Seeber used to post to a forum like this when it was hosted on another site (coolbbs or ezboards something). Now, he'll lie right to your face today, if you ask him, and tell you that he doesn't approve of any kind of child abuse. Then he'll go back in to the building and perform his daily routine as executive director of SAFE. In all likelyhood, he believes what he's saying or at least believes in the justification for lying just a little to cover those things which outsiders just wouldn't understand.



He's an extreme case, of course. But, with rare exception, every one of us has played a part in the abuse. Did you ever confront someone in group? How do you know that it wasn't that very confrontation that was the final straw? Were you an oldcomer? Then you actually commited the crime of false imprisonment each night when you locked yourself and your nukes into the room and all day when you took part in preventing anyone from just walking away at will.



Worse yet? Did you ever turn yourself in for something, confess some thought or past deed that was not in your own best interest to confess? Did you motivate till and after your joints hurt? Sit bolt upright despite the painful ache in your back? Then you did it to yourself as well. That's one of the more fucked up aspects of thought reform. You advance one square closer to the door by demonstrating the ability and willingness to inflict the abuse on yourself and others.



Where does one draw the line? It's a far stickier question than you might at first think, eh? And this is where I fall back on one of those concepts I learned from the Presby school and church I attended as a kid. "Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord." Some people interpret that to mean "Don't worry, you'll get yours!" Ok, if that gives you some satisfaction then take it where you can get it. But that's not how I was taught. I was taught to interpret that line of script as a legitimate cop out from the obligation to punish anyone for anything.



I'm really not interested in punishing anyone for past deeds. I just want to seperate the current criminals from their tax funding and shed some light on what they do so as to remove the mantle of legitimacy that lets them continue to get away with it.



Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2003, 10:22:00 PM
I was talking about principles in the programs be it jr. sr. or exc staff.  I was not refering to people here on this site.

We all went through alot, I realize that.  The problem I have is dealing with old staff, "again not here" when I talk with them.  They still believe we deserved it.

Best wishes to all...............
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2003, 10:31:00 PM
I agree with you Ginger however I feel it is a civic duty to explain what happened and let society as a whole judge the princiles involved. "REMEMBER THE PRINCIPLES STILL EFFECT OUR LIVES"  just read the paper.  What do you think about the new Bush voucher program for treatment.  The very people that created Straight are still influncing "OUR" govenrment and "US".  I'm worried about "now" much more than the past.  The situation is still "Current".  That's what frustrates me.  The public regardless of all the wonderful work that has been done by Wes and Ginger and many more still don't know the truth.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2003, 02:01:00 AM
Judgement is something that belongs to the Lord. We are not really supposed to go around "judging". If we truly left judgment in the Lord's hands, and didn't seek our own revenge, we would get the most perfect form of vengeance, namely God's. Only God is Just when He judges.

On one level, it is our right and duty, to speak out against things that we know are wrong, and harmful. But, in my view, we get in trouble when we seek revenge, or give into a vengeful mindset.

Do I understand the mindset? Yes I do. But I also know that you can't fight what is vile with a different form of vileness. It doesn't produce good results. It continues that legacy of darkness.

I think it is beneficial to abstain from vengeance, because vengeance does belong to God. If we seek to avenge ourselves, we are violating God's law in that.

Do we don the mantle of passivity because we aren't vengeful. NO. We speak the truth in love. We rescue those who've been plunged into a hell of the mind and body. We speak freely. We don't have to vent to be right. WE are right! There is power in being right. There is power in overcoming the lies.

Nobody ever has to agree with you for you to know that you are right about something. Nobody can invalidate what you know is true. They can kill your body. They can harm your mind, but they CAN'T stop you if you are right and you know it. Don't fear them because they fear you if you are right and you're actions prove them to be liars.

If you want to prove a point, be righteous. If you want to change things, do it. What are you waiting for?
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: ClayL on February 01, 2003, 12:50:00 PM
I really do not know enough about Bush's idea about treatment vouchers. I think he did make a good policy move here though. In effect he said, drug users should not be treated as criminals, but as people with an issue we can deal with. Now, given our guberments (who says that?) over-weaning desire to appear TOUGH, I have not a doubt they will institute some stupid bone head plan. When, after creating many others like ourselves, the idiots who cannot hold jobs in the corporate sector, will begin to realize what they are doing is not working. Then, they can go back to being tough on crime or confronting the issue that most of the crime is performed by only 20% of the inmates and the rest are there because they have issues they'd most likely be willing to deal with given a chance. As for the preditors, the 20% commiting most of the crimes, lock them up and throw away the key. Perhaps on a habitable island, left with the things necessary to survive and, perhaps, even build an economy.

Never happen though, the drug "war" is to good for the gov't. Spend billions of taxpayer dollars on something that will never work, and look tough while doing it, but these wimps will never make the unpopular but correct decisions it will take to clean up the drug "policy" mess. What I really love is using this "war" to justify all kinds of non-sense and to encroach on my ever decreasing right of privacy and freedom from gov't snooping. Hell Tom, the jack ass, Daschle has in a bill of his has a provision that states: If I throw a party on my farm and someone gets caught selling, in possession of or using some controlled substance, I get to got to federal prision for 20 years. I found that tidbit on http://www.foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com) yesterday. Cool, huh?

Perhaps the next generation won't sell out like the 60's assholes that are now in office(One wonder's how many of them dropped acid at Grateful Dead shows). Doubt it, but one can hope.

How's that for political meandering?

Clay

PS I think I finally got the grammar corrected.
-GEEZ

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-02-01 09:59 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-02-01 10:02 ]
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2003, 09:51:00 AM
I agree with you. The line between vengence and rightiousness is a fine one. It can make or break you.

I am not here to judge, However I do want the story told and slowly publc awareness is being lifed by all that are active in this pursuit including me.

Take care.....
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Antigen on February 03, 2003, 02:08:00 PM
This came in on a list just now:


I don't have the link, but in The Washington Spectator 11/15/02, Helen Sharpe had an article on "faith-based initiative." Evidently, Pat Roberson received a half-million dollar grant for something called Operation Blessing International, or OBI, an organization that supposedly distributes humanitarian in Africa. She cites the Virginian-Pilot, stating that OBI money (at least prior to the grant) was going to Roberson's diamond mining venture.   Ray


To err is human. But to really foul things up requires government funding.


As to support for current policy, it goes way deeper and broader than most people think. Here's an excellent (long) essay on how that all works.


Narco-Dollars for Beginners (http://http://www.narconews.com/narcodollars1.html) "How the Money Works"
in the Illicit Drug Trade
Part I in a Series
By Catherine Austin Fitts


On another point, judgement and vengence are two entirely different things. Judgement is thought or understanding. Vengence is action.

There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir

Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2003, 10:00:00 PM
I like the way you put that.  There is a very fine line between acountability and abuse.  Just stick with the facts.  However if you ever meet face to face with your attacker in a public venue.  You may change you mind about vengence.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2003, 10:08:00 PM
It's the part where they act like we deserved it.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2003, 04:50:00 AM
i was in the program for about 2 years and never went along with any of it. like i hear people say, all  these web sites do bring back alot of memories. any ways, i don't think the thing is about being a victim or who the biggest victim is or whatever, that just makes you weak i feel. in all the time i was there i never opened up because i could not open up. i knew the thing was full of shit and i ain't no sell out no way no how. i'll never be a hipocrit either for that matter. i have some contempt, ( i'm not saying i'm right, but it's how i feel) to people who could fuck with me while i was not going along with the bull shit there. but i believe in karma with all my heart, so don't worry to much about it. i learned a whole lot of shit about myself there even though i never got past the 3rd level, and learned alot about people in general, wich i think was amazing. ther is a book called "the manipulated mind" by denise winn that is about brainwashing techneques used by the koreans that sounds like they're talking about straight. by not going along with the whole program there for so long i feel that i gained a whole lot of strength and determination that has helped me in my life. but it is cool to hear all the fucked up feelings people have about the place because that is a part of my life i can not share with anyone else. anyway thanks for listening............. peace
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2004, 03:41:00 AM
I was in straight I 7th stepped in 10 months After running once and being told by my parnets and the courts its juvi jail or Straight. the choice was easy. My ass was brain washed I admit that but the night I got out It started to get dirty again infact I used alot more drugs and buried more friends after straight.    

 I have had bad trips withdraws and much more trama from my substance abuse than Straight caused me.Thank God I have Kicked them all ALONE with out help I might add!! I dont blame Straight for my problems that would only make me a bitter loser like some of you. I moved on and after almost twenty years I look back at it almost like a high school with a little mind fuck on the side.

I was also on jr. staff until I got kicked off for being too confrontational and basically power mad. You give a 16 year old power he will abuse it. Hell give a 50 year power he will abuse it!!

In closing I would Like to add if you think getting high and being bitter is getting back at Straight you are still brainwashed and all those Rebels who think they didnt conform you really did Straight needed you to set an example to the rest you where just pawns in there game too. The way it looks some of you still are all these years later
 
 The people who still have problems look to a phycoligist, family or your minister. Dont look to the internet.I will keep you all in my prayers. Let go of the resentment its the only way to heal.

                       SCH
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Melaniemelco on May 03, 2006, 11:27:00 PM
.Never mind
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2006, 04:24:00 AM
Quote
On 2002-10-24 23:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"  I would like to start by simply asking each of you who take the time to read this post to imagine a hypothetical situation. I apologize in advance for the seemingly crude nature but it is the closest analogy that I could come up with. Please bear with me, there is a point that I believe needs to be made.

   Two women are brutally raped. Both are stripped of their dignity, sense of security and are forever scarred by the experience. The first struggles against her assailant with all her strength but is overcome in the end. The second lies silent and motionless, hoping only that her compliance will bring this nightmare she is experiencing to a quick end and that she might live to see another day.

   My question to each of you is who among you have the audacity to judge which of them is the greater victim?

    For those of you who wear your ?mis-behaving? cop-outs, and general non-conformity to the program as some demented badge of honor and seem to assert that you were the only ?true?victims of Straight, I ask you consider that others who acted in complete conformity, also just wanting the nightmare to end, to the SAME abusive tactics did so at an EQUALLY high price. A price that may not have been paid to the degree at which you suffered while actually in the program but one that has demanded payment each and every day that has followed.

   I began searching out sites such as this one around two weeks ago in an effort to begin facing issues that have haunted me and drastically affected nearly every aspect of my life. Deep inside I?ve always known they were a product of my experience at Straight but have found the experience of remembering those days to painful to seem worthwhile. Thinking that maybe I was far enough removed from the experience that I could begin searching for answers I found myself here.

    Though I have sincerely appreciated the comments, replies, and insight from many of your posts, the events of this past week (sleepless nights, nightmares when I have managed to fall asleep, loss of appetite, mental and physical exhaustion, fits of rage followed by extreme depression and most of all the feeling of being back in a group environment where one can reveal the deepest part of his or herself only to have their words twisted and turned against them, so reminiscent of Straight) I have decided it?s time to get back to the business of living my daily life with a focus on the future rather than the past.

   To anyone new to facing the issues of your past concerning Straight and also new to these sites, I strongly advise you to PRECEDE WITH CAUTION!!!! Though I am certain that most of the people here and other related sites desire only to promote healing both in their lives and the lives of others, I am equally certain that there are those whose intentions are quite the opposite. The problem arises of trying to discern who is who and doing so is difficult, at best, in this context. The old saying stands true ?hurt people hurt people?though probably in most case unintentionally. It is just a result of throwing this many people together that have ALL suffered at the hands of abuse. I believe a safer environment, such as one on one therapy with an OBJECTIVE professional, is probably a better option for anyone in the beginning stages of coming to terms with such extremely deep, personal and emotional issues. This is simply MY opinion and what I have learned from this whole experience. Along with fifty cents it?ll buy you a coke but my intentions are to maybe save someone the pain and confusion that I have experienced over these past two weeks.

     To those of you who plan to take Sembler head on, I pray for your success. I hope to be healed and whole enough one day to join you in the fight without it consuming me, something I do not believe I am capable of at this point.

       This will be my final post. I pray God blesses each of you and grants you the truth, justice and most of all peace that you desire and deserve.

                                                                     

                                                                                                     Sincerely,

                                                                                                               Marc Shelton

"

No,Im the one who fought back and escaped while others assisted in abusing NEWcommers.
Either you caved in or you didn't.
Title: To All Straight Survivors
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2006, 04:27:00 AM
Quote
On 2002-10-25 06:54:00, Carmel wrote:

"Wish you all the best of luck Marc, and I am sorry for your pain.  I hope you find the strength to meet your goals and possibly come back here once in a while.



Try to keep in mind that a healing process is more often than not filled with painful memories and experiences.  Dont sell yourself short trying too hard to avoid pain in recovery.  I agree with you that the harshness can get a bit deep around here, but by the same token, we have the freedom to defy it and make  a stand without fear of physical or mental retribution.  Thats something we most certainly did NOT have in Straight.  Going back and facing those situations all over again, and being able reject them with confidence can be a great healing tool.



Again, good luck to you and yours,



Carmel



"

Shut your gaping hole you DRUGGIE WHORE!