Author Topic: St. Pete vs. VA  (Read 5021 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« on: November 06, 2002, 10:14:00 PM »
Just to see something new on here, I came up
with this. I was in Straight-Sringfield as were some others on this board. The topic is: A comparison of the severity between St. Pete & Spr, VA. OK I think we all know which one was worse hands-down. St. Pete of course.
Since VA migrated from St. Pete, there were a
lot of people who did time in both places...
From a personal standpoint, coming in not long after the migration (Actually 20 years ago TODAY - 11/06/82) and being there for over 2 years, I noticed differences between
when I came in, & right before I was out...
i.e. it seemed A LOT WORSE early on. Well rather than go into the details, I'll put that ball into the court of the next reader
who is able to comment... And if you want to compare St. Pete w/ Cincy or somewhere else,
by all means...I just want something good to read! So, please post!



Alex L.




[ This Message was edited by: malchick on 2002-11-07 15:10 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline 85 Day Jerk

  • Posts: 562
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2002, 12:30:00 AM »
Yeah Alex, you are right about things being harder early on.  I entered Straight when it had been going strong for just 19 months.  

It was bad enough for me, but in the days prior to June 1978 it got real bad and real

stupid as well.  Back in 1977 they did not have 5th phasers.  They had 4th phasers and the longer they were on 4th phase, the meaner they got.  They did'nt politely nudge you if you fell asleep in a rap, them sumbitches would slam a person upside the head with a plastic whiffle bat!  They used a lot of violent peer pressure then too.  When someone tried to split the program it was serious business and people got hurt.  If someone split, they would be gone from group for several days to allow for the bruises and marks to heal.  A person could be started over just for saying HRS in the wrong context.  The St. Pete Straight entered into its "Kinder Gentler Nation" period between October 1978 to about October 1981, and then Miller Newton brought his own warped agenda into play.  I urge you to go to the members heading, go to page 6 or 7, click on my name and read my posts.  I have taken it upon myself to write frankly and honestly about what Straight was like back in the "good old days"  welcome aboard, Bob in St. Pete

_________________
In the line of fire, you know what to say
They gave us no choices, just one shade of grey
Back at that hellhole, behind Tyrone Mall
We walked in darkness, kept hitting the walls
I took the time to feel for the door
I had been treated, but what the hell for?

[ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2002-11-06 21:31 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Inside a warehouse behind Tyrone Mall
we walked in darkness, kept hitting the wall.
I took the time to feel for the door,
I had been \"treated\" but what the hell for?

Offline kpickle39

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 481
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2002, 06:59:00 AM »
and I think it is a waste of time to compare them.  Kinda like comparing which execution method is worse; electrocution or death by lethal injection.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Tampa survivor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2002, 07:04:00 AM »
St Pete, Dec 7-1980

Welcome to St Pete Straight.  I spend 52 days on first phase and go home on 2nd.  Life is weird, but going okay until I start school.  I talk to a girl I met at a runaway shelter before I entered, and expect get in trouble for it, so I split.  

For the next 18 months, me and Straight play a sick dance of wills.

In St Pete:   Doug Hemminger is working his way up kid staff crushing whoever gets in his way. Dave Crock is on a roll.  Sick bastards like Mike M wait for a misbehavior to act up. 5th phasers ignore you and your requests.  Misbehaviors are sat on daily, and the madness has Miller Newton and his wife's approval.  They ordered me restrained on more than one occasion. The Atlanta program group is forming up, and preparing to leave soon. Cincy is doing the same. Peanut butter diets are handed out like candy.  I decide to "sit" and my parents are banned from open meetings as a motivational tool.  Or to keep my mom away?  Hmmm

Excercise raps of insane lengths, violent fighting misbehaviors, multiple restraint cases at the same time moaning in the periphery. Arm carving is common on both sides of group.  Millers incessent screaming seems always around the corner.

Shipped to Atlanta: I wouldn't work in St Pete, so as puninshment, I am sent to ATL.  The group is quieter.  The motivation is not as manic.  The singing is better, and sitting it out is accepted better by the group than in St Pete.  In St Pete, a sitter/sponge is provoked to sit up, look at speaker etc. until you fight.  In Atl, the fighting is almost non-existant.  All night marathons are not done in 1982 ATL.  The Tilly/Buttimer crowd is definately more sane than Newtons world down south.  

Another poster once wrote how M Newton arrived in ATL unannounced one day until he broke into a confrontation rap  by SCREAMING at the group for not confronting hard enough.  I remeber that. The staffers were shocked, and the wide eyes in group showed it.

Here is Miller SCREAMING fuck this and FOS that as it degenerated into a "Atlanta program is Straight Lite" rant by Newton.

Things got worse after that.  I bailed in dec 1982 and did not return.  

Conclusion:  Atlanta was kinder and more "southern" in its way of screwing up your head, but in St Pete, the rules and penalties were swiftly enforced by coercion, violence or deprivation.  I had sat for months in ATL without even being stood up...they knew I wouldn't change for them.  In St Pete, that NEVER would have been allowed.  They did me a favor when I was shipped north.

Bill
ps  I just was re-reading this and had a vivid flashback to being sat on in Atl to the outside of group by the doors facing Austell Rd.  Ah, Atlanta WAS violent too.  

[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-07 06:16 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta, never surrendered!
12/80-12/82

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2002, 02:33:00 PM »
Thanks to 85 Day Jerk & Tampa Survivor for posting. Oh, & you too, Kpickle...even though I disagree with you fully; why not make comparisons if it can get people talking about what went on? It seems to have worked, no?

Thanks again, Alex L.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline METALGOD8

  • Posts: 365
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2002, 01:51:00 PM »
St Pete #1 on the shit list, Springfield #2, then Atlanta, Cincinatti, the rest were like the shotgun, hanging, whatever analogy. Then came Kids of NJ where they incarcerated 30 year old women, and god knows what else. THat may even be a category all alone. What about Chesapeake? How was that one? Where did the files go after that closed? Some warehouse, we need to find that warehouse and do some diggin. Alex, you got a shovel? I got a truck, lets go, find out where they went. MG8
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2002, 02:01:00 PM »
Thanks, Bill

30 year old women?!? How did they manage THAT? Did their parents commit them?

Yes, indeed - the more digging the better! Our statute of limitations may be up, but I'm sure there are people out there who could press charges!! Let's find them...and keep doing what we can to help them find us. Someone must have a lawyer in the family!

Alex

http://www.clockworkorange.com/wav/CO_I ... lright.wav

[ This Message was edited by: malchick on 2002-11-08 12:23 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline kaydeejaded

  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2002, 04:11:00 PM »
St Pete to VA then VA to Boston.....
like the spead of a bacteria
Boston no motivation (good)
covering mouths and restraining (bad)
violent misbs (good and bad I was one)
Bomb squads (need I say more)
being "sat up" (get the fuck off me)
From what I have heard even though Boston was horrible St Pete takes the horror prize.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2002, 09:44:00 PM »
Ok, time to purge my mind of some of what I remember going on during the beginning of my stay in 'Straight-Springfield.' Here goes:

One of the other newcomers in my first host home, whose initials were T.S. had to wear a long-sleeved button-down shirt (which I believe was referred to as a 'F.O.S.' shirt) every day for weeks on end. Of course it was not to be washed. Every day some new pejorative was written on it.

I remember they made one guy, S.C. walk up and down a step ladder throughout the entire day.

I remember one kid, M.S. who was pretty young being 'nit-picked' which meant that 2 guys would sit on either side of him & constantly turn or jerk his head toward the person talking, etc...

People were getting sat on then, I read one older post on here that mentioned Kevin Grimes' ribs getting broken* by Carl Palumbo, & then this scumbag had the nerve to brag about it in his host home. (Anyone know what's up with ol' Carl? Hopefully someone's broken a bone or two of his...)

*(while being sat on)

This type of stuff seemed to happen less as the years went by...

Well, that's it for now, folks.

Alex
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline kaydeejaded

  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2002, 10:54:00 PM »
ugh that turning the head thing was wack. I just would punch whoever it was and get taken down to the floor. Pretty immature but then again so is turning someones head to look at who was talking. That was insanity. I felt like an animal in there trying to bite and claw at people. It would be embarassing but this was done to us by Straight by our government. Thanks for the help people!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2002, 11:39:00 PM »
Just after I left Straight-Springfield they made someone wear diapers for humiliation.  A number of people not paricipating & regularly taken to the floor.  Me once when I would not motivate and they took my arms to make me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline METALGOD8

  • Posts: 365
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2002, 11:48:00 PM »
Hands in the pockets was a bigun in SPringfield. I always put my thumbs in the edge of my pocket and some dude would flip my hand outta there. Jeez, I was apparently "avoiding myself" by putting my thumbs in my pocket. I often wondered what kind of brainwashing tactics like that one that I don't remember are. PSSSSS, SHHHH, NO , NOt now, shush, PSSSSSSST, NO, shush, NO, PSSSSSSSST, quiet, turn around, PSSSST, SHHHHH , quiet, PSSSSSSSSS, turn around, LOL LALALALALALALALA Jeez, I wanna do a video about that. HAHAHAHA MG8
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline the other anonymous

  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2002, 12:42:00 AM »
MG8 you are cracking me up, was it like that on the guys side too?  What a WIERD culture.  The cult-ure.  The vulture.

ANyway, oh yeah, about the whole avoiding thing, that reminds me, people would do that if someone was sharing ("") and crying, and their hands or arms would instinctively go up in front of their body -- the arms had to remain straight (*#%) at their side otherwise they were "avoiding" themself.  

This had a lasting effect on me years and years later feeling very uncomfortable within my body.  Which is called "intrusive thoughts of the traumatic experience" which is a symptom of Post TRaumatic Stress disorder.

PS WHEN CAN WE HAVE THE BONFIRE?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Don Smith

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 204
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://straightincalumni.com
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2002, 02:06:00 PM »
I was fortunate enough to come into the program the day after the Cincinnati group was split from the larger more violent St. Pete Group. November 28, 1981.  
In fact I recently learned that I was the very first Newcomer introduced into the Cincy group since the split.
Initally there were less than 40 people herded together in one end of the Carpet Room.  But the St. Pete Group was just on the other side of the door. I easily clicked with the pretty girls on the front row with me.  
There wasn't really enough room for misbehaviors in the Carpet Room so I didn't see a lot of that kind of thing going on.  But I heard stories of the kind of things that happened in the St. Pete Group.  One Newcomer stabbed his Oldcomer in the head with an ink pen.  
I was terrified that I would be placed in a Foster Home with a violent Newcomer.
My first Oldcomer, Jeff Waldron, was on 5th Phase and was getting ready to go on Staff.  For the most part he and I got along okay.  But he seemed to get a little miffed anytime I said the word "Man" or "Cool" and he didn't like to be called "Dude".
When he made Trainee his whole demenor changed.  Once inside the building he thought I couldn't talk directly to him because now he was a big shot Trainee.  I didn't view him as my Trainee because he was on the St. Pete Staff not Cincinnati.  So to me he was my Oldcomer with a title, nothing more.  
The only contact I had with the St. Pete Group was in the Intake Room, Executive Raps, Open Meetings and Open Meeting Reviews.  Those were relentless.  That's where I saw the strongest confrontations and meanest misbehaviors.  They scared the shit of out me. Miller Newton was almost always lurking nearby to ensure full throttle confrontation.  I think the Staff feared him as much as the phasers did.  
The Cincinnati Group was supposed to be up in Ohio before Christmas, but they kept postponing the departure date.  Christmas came and went.  I was moved out of Jeff's home the next day. I have no recollection of who took me home at night, who went over my MI's or where I slept.  
My next memory was January 5, 1982. I said good-bye to a 15 year kid named Dave who had come in the same day I did.  We promised each other a visit when we were on 5th Phase.  A promise neither one of us kept.
We hopped aboard a Marriot Express Jet and landed at the Lunken Airport in Cincinnati.  Three buses, provided by the Mt. Washington Church of Christ, drove us to another church just down the street on Salem Rd.  I was given another Oldcomer, Fred Barnes.
The next day the Cincinnati Group opened for business.  The group room was larger than what we needed at the time, but plenty of room for hundreds more in the future.  
It seemed for a while that it was going to be okay.  No one tried to run for a door or fight.  But it didn't take long and before I knew it there was someone being sat on by 4 BIG guys. A 15 year old girl was pulling her own hair out of her head forming a perfect bald spot in the center of her scalp.  It made me sick to watch her.    
Wanda Minton was the Executive to fear the most.  As soon as she walked out of the Staff offices in the back of the group room, everyone knew there was a confrontation coming soon.
It would be another 10 ten days before everything finally made sense to me.  I understood the steps, signs, prayer, etc.  and 23 days later I was on 2nd Phase.
There were misbehaviors and cop outs every week.  But they managed to find most of them and bring em back tired and depressed.  
Miller Newton visted the group just once as I recall. I was on 3rd Phase by then.  He never called on me.
I made it out of the program in just under a year and was glad to be out.  
As far as I'm concerned Cincinnati was never as bad as St. Pete.  But let's face it, there were things that happened in Cincinnati that shouldn't happen to a dog.  
It's taken me a long time to finally see that.  

Don
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
t\'s not for me to question How God will provide for my needs. I only have to Know that He will.

Offline Tampa survivor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • Karma: +1/-1
    • View Profile
St. Pete vs. VA
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2002, 05:12:00 PM »
I remember everything about the time you refer to.  
Great post.
Bill Hadley
St Pete & Atlanta
12/80-12/82
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta, never surrendered!
12/80-12/82