Author Topic: Just to let you know....  (Read 3595 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2005, 01:13:00 PM »
I see Aileen retreating in defense because of the ofensive behavior on this website---Its like we are in group agian and there are no leaders, and all of a sudden its open feed back time.  And plus I see a chunk of people here urging even promoting there hurt feelings of MMS to the people that are even nuetral.  Attraction is a much better sorce to use to sell something,  and there is really nothing attractive or useful here. It feels like shit being here and anybody that feels happy when they get off this website must really like being in a dark hole, filled will lots of stinky poo thier own shit.

Gossip is nothing but damaging. The ramification reach far into the individuals being torn apart.  But I see this as far worse and easier to do especially behind the viels of Anonymity. This is worse then gossip on the playground, Shallow, flimsy, and just as inneffective and violent.

I have seen most messages meet with defensiveness, This is my observations.  Everytime that I write something I feel like I am throwing a piece of bloody meat into the ring and all of you attack it and then send it back to me askewed with some strange twist.  

I don't want any response I just want people to ponder and be open to eachother.  That is the minority here.  


Remember that some of us love eachother.-
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Just to let you know....
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »
Just to clear things up. I set up this new forum on Kathy's request. I hope I haven't been such an ass as to totally alienate anybody. Yes, I admit it, I'm harsh and cold and downright mean sometimes. The one thing that gets my goat every damned time, no matter how hard I try to get a handle on it, is Program apologist talking down to those who, given the same oportunity, rejected the Program. And MMS must be an awful lot like Straight because even your language, never mind the philosophy, is quite similar.

What's John Mercer's bacground again? Was he a Seedling or a Synanite or a CEDU graduate or something? Daytop of Phoenix House, maybe?

At any rate, I apologize for my rage and frequent lack of patience. You'd think I'd know better by now and be more understanding. But some old wounds run deep and seem to never heal properly. Yes, that's an excuse. FWIW, I think I'm a good deal less hostile and more thoughtful about it than I used to be. Almost every time I talk to Don Smith (host of StraightIncAlumni) I apologize to him. Few years back he was actually scared I was going to physically do him harm.

In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline katfish

  • Posts: 543
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cafety.org
Just to let you know....
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Hey Ginger,

John Mercer and co formed MMS after leaving Spring Creek (Lodge?). The place that I believe has also been accused of being abusive also located in Montana.
John has a degree and a masters in ecology. This qualifies him to deal with emotinally troubled kids, address the various types of abuse and facillitate group therapy because ...?   Your guess is as good as mine.  

kat[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-07 12:09 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Just to let you know....
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2005, 09:16:00 PM »
Ok, that explains some of it. You know SCL is a WWASP program, right? I wonder if MMS takes WWASP referals or not?

If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2005, 09:31:00 PM »
This is not the first time I hear that they branced off from Spring Creek Lodge. That is not a good sign.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2005, 10:24:00 PM »
as far as a i know, the founders of spring creek lodge are no longer affiliated with it at all.  they sold it and it now belongs to a corporate company.  just because you started something years ago doesn't mean that it is influenced by you anymore.  once they become huge and industrialized, the original founders from twenty years ago don't reflect the institutions.  spring creek lodge is a huge employer, and is a much more formal place than MMS.  i cannot say what it was like when it first started, but chances are that spring creek lodge today is completely different than it was back then.  just think of a small grocery store, and then it gets sold to a walmart or something... the new model is completely different...
i am not positive on this issue of spring creek, but i'm pretty sure on it.  its just important to keep the schools separate because it isn't right to blame current situations at spring creek on mercer and co.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline katfish

  • Posts: 543
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cafety.org
Just to let you know....
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2005, 11:05:00 PM »
I don't blame think Mercer has anything to do with current allegations against Spring Creek, but I think it's interested that he comes from there.  Wonder how similar they are...?[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-08 13:29 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Just to let you know....
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2005, 12:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-07 20:05:00, katfish wrote:

Wonder how similar they are...?

I think ya'll ought to compare notes w/ some fomer WWASP clients and see what matches.

Here's something that Ryan Pink posted recently talking about Cross Creek Manor and Casa by the Sea.

Quote
The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.

TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.

TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.

TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.

TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.

These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =50#101071



I believe this is quoted from Margaret Thayer Singer's work on cults, but you'd have to ask Ryan to be sure.

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2005, 02:04:00 PM »
This makes me so sick! These tactics were used on me everyday! Especially Tactic 5. I felt so goddamn crazy, and they told me they did those things for my  good. That's bulsh*t! I knew it then and I know it now. They isolated and medicated me so I would keep my mouth shut. I didn't do it though. Goddamn I hate that place!
Aaaaaah!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline katfish

  • Posts: 543
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cafety.org
Just to let you know....
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2005, 04:41:00 PM »
yup, hit nail on the head...how can this be legal, just don't undestand...

An interesting link that deals with this issue and describes how this violates basic human rights can be found here:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/CPS.TXT[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-08 13:48 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Just to let you know....
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2005, 06:05:00 PM »
"Laws are like spider webs. If some poor weak creature comes up against them - it is caught. But the bigger one can break through and get away."
-- Solon; Greek philosopher - c.630-c.555 BC

The trouble is that the bigger, stronger animals in our society support these tactics as a way to manage the evil, dangerous teenager monster. I don't think they'll change their minds about it. But they absolutely need the illinformed support of the masses. I think we can change that throug education; rampant talking out in group!

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline katfish

  • Posts: 543
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.cafety.org
Just to let you know....
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2005, 09:40:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-10-05 18:40 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2005, 02:32:00 AM »
I haven't posted in a while, just being an onlooker and seeing where things go on this site. John Mercer, if you read some of the girls' posts, is an ass. Period. He got his start at Spring Creek Lodge and Spring Creek Lodge is a WWASP program. He got his training from them. I don't care if they are larger now they are all of the same basic mindset and it all stinks, if you ask me. They program teens and their parents, abuse the kids, and rip the parents off.

I have to say I heard something very refreshing. There is some hope in this big bad world of teen abuse. A friend told me that her friend's teen daughter was having problems so they sent her to a program. Immediately I became defensive and fearful for the girl. Then I learned this girl goes to the program during the day, she gets therapy from qualified therapists, her family too. She gets to go home every night, nothing like being away from her family for a year or more. Everyone is doing well and improvements are seen daily. She is also able to get a good education and there is not abuse or mental programming.

This hit home for me. I know we are all in the mode of "shut them all down!!" because either we were abused at a program or we know someone near and dear to us who was. Face it, that's why we're all here. Instead of "shut them down" we should be yelling out "reform!!" "regulations!!" Programs for teens, or any child, or any adult for that matter, needs to be regulated and needs to be monitored. Once something is proven ineffective it should be revamped. I think we're there, these programs are ineffective and I think this will come to the surface more and more. This is a huge industry and they have definitely got a foothold. But that should not discourage us to keep pressing forward to get things done.

We need to remember that as we sit here typing away on our keyboards, fighting and bickering amongst ourselves, children are being abused. It's not a question of "if" they are, we all know they are. We need to get it together and do something. Not piss and moan and complain. Not bash each other. Instead start doing something productive and helpful. Kids are depending on SOMEONE helping them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2005, 11:37:00 AM »
MMS rbanched off from Spring Creek Community Center.  But tactics of SLC seem very similar to those used at MMS none the less. break you down and build you back up, in a very controlled way.  John is a sick sick man., but apparently he is in the process of getting his PHD    yikes!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Just to let you know....
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2005, 04:52:00 PM »
Liz - MMS student under the tyrant John Mercer from 01 to 03

Dude, tatic 4 was used on me the most.  I lost absolutely all sense of self and felt crazy because I was acting so weird and I knew it.  That stuff is crazy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »