Author Topic: national data base and ID.  (Read 3236 times)

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Offline BuzzKill

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national data base and ID.
« on: May 08, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
http://www.usalone.com/realid.htm

Read it carefully and then vote.

Personally, I am appaled by the idea of a national data base and ID.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 08:43:00 PM »
the REAL ID act is about to pass tonight  :roll:

where are your papers, citizen?
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Offline Antigen

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national data base and ID.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2005, 10:21:00 PM »
Quote
...Additionally, the Real ID Act calls for implementation of the program with "common machine-readable technology" which could lead to widespread abuse, identity theft and massive privacy concerns.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=magnets

Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.

--George Orwell

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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 06:13:00 PM »
I've heard this mentioned before.  I don't know all the details or anything, but I will say that we absolutely have to develop some way to track people who are in this country.  

I know a lady from Brazil, she works as a housekeeper and bareley speaks a word of English, and is not a US citizen.  She registered to vote (and did vote) in the last election!!
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Offline Antigen

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national data base and ID.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 07:09:00 PM »
Government can only do something for us to the exact extent that it can do something to us.

I do NOT trust the ppl who brought us Gitmo w/ this level of control over all Americans.

Moralizing, with the force of law or coercion, is a
far greater crime against the constitutional principles of our nation than unauthorized euphoria, regardless of the substance involved, be it chocolate or heroin.
--James

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
This is NOT a good thing!!! It's sad how gullable most americans are. Scream terrorist and you can pass any law you want these days. :roll:

The End of America: May 10, 2005

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, America became a true police state.
Your U.S. senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without
even reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.

The Real ID Act blackmails state governments into turning
their drivers licenses into a draconian tool of the federal homeland security
apparatus. If states refuse, their citizens lose such "privileges"
as being allowed to board an airplane, enter a federal building, or apply
for social security. President Bush is expected to sign the bill eagerly
on Thursday.

In three years -- by May 2008 -- this Stalin-style internal
passport will be an American reality. But your government will have more
control over you than Stalin ever dreamed in his most violent, vicious,
anti-freedom dreams. (See links to the text of the law and articles about
it at the bottom of this article.)

But that's only the beginning.

The creator of the Real ID Act, Rep. James Sensenbrenner,
smiles and tells us that his Real ID Act is all about "solving illegal
immigration" or "preventing terrorists from entering the country."
This is one of the biggest of the thousands of "Big Lies" we've
heard from the tyrants in Washington. The Real ID Act is about tracking
and controlling Americans. You. Me. Our children. Everybody.

In May 2008, barring a miracle, America as we once knew it
will be in ruins. It will be gone. And the rights of gun owners will be
among the first scheduled for destruction.

GUN OWNERS: PREPARE TO RESIST

Here's your future:



    *




      You walk into a gun store, fill out your 4473, and show
      your government ID just as you now do. But instead of looking at your
      license and taking down some information, the clerk runs the license (which
      is likely to contain a radio-frequency ID chip) through a scanner. Your
      purchase is instantly recorded in your state drivers license
      registry. The federal government isn't currently allowed to keep a gun
      registry. But no problem; the Real ID act gives them an open door into
      your state records.



    *




      Complete information on every firearm you buy will be
      instantly available to every police officer (and possibly every government
      employee, store clerk, or computer hacker) you ever encounter. You'll
      be an instant criminal suspect every time you deal with someone who has
      access to the database.



    *




      Just as travelers are encouraged to get background checks
      and give fingerprints to avoid some of the worst excesses of TSA screening,
      gun owners will be encouraged to get background checks and give whatever
      biometric ID the Department of Homeland Security requires. This will be
      sold as a "benefit," ensuring you'll never again experience
      an "instant-check" delay. In fact, Congress, the ATF, or the
      FBI might even "mandate" 5-day or 15-day delays for anyone not
      enrolled in the "Trusted Firearms Buyer" program.



    *




      The private purchase "loophole" will be closed,
      so that all gun buyers must make trackable purchases. (The ultimate goal
      is for every purchase of every kind to be trackable.)



    *




      Buying ammo? The store scans your national ID card and
      -- bingo! -- your purchase is registered in the state database.



    *




      The federal government or state governments can now also
      _effectively_ legislate limits on the amount or kind of ammunition you're
      "allowed" to purchase. Try to buy more and the database instantly
      rejects you.



    *




      The federal government or state governments can now also
      _effectively_ legislate limits on the number of guns you may own. Try
      to buy more, and the database rejects you.



    *




      Eventually -- after the federal government "discovers"
      the obvious, that national ID won't stop either illegal immigration or
      terrorism -- the old attack on "evil guns" will resume. When
      they want your .50 BMG they'll know just where to find it (because the
      Real ID act says your home address _must_ be revealed). When they want
      your evil "scoped sniper rifle" (you know, the one you hunt
      deer with), they'll know just how to get it. Ditto with you "Saturday
      Night Special" or your "assault weapon."



    *




      If you don't surrender your guns, well, then the Department
      of Homeland Security will cut off your driving "privilege,"
      as well as your right to escape the growing police state via plane. You'll
      be a prisoner in your own home, in your own country. Or you'll be forced
      to function as an outlaw, operating and living a precarious existence
      beneath the government radar.




PARANOID? OR PAYING ATTENTION?

You say these projections are ridiculous? That we're paranoid?

Well, frankly, if the Real ID Act doesn't make you paranoid,
you're not paying enough attention. We ask you to consider the long-term
impact of a few other acts of government.

In the 1930s, Congress promised us that our social security
numbers would never, absolutely never, be used for identification. Now,
they're the key to everything about us -- and without a social security
number you won't get a drivers license and you won't even be "allowed"
to drive after May 2008.

In 1913, Congress and the media swore to us that the brand-
new income tax would only affect the rich. Well, how rich do you feel after
paying 40 percent of your income (or more!) in taxes?

This is the way government works. They've even got a term
for it: mission creep. And there is no creepier mission than the mission
the federal government has currently set itself: to track everyone, everywhere,
and to control what we do.

We warned you in The State vs. the People
that this was coming. That book is still relevant, still a good read, and
still filled with information about what our future will be like in this
new American police state.

Be forewarned. Be aware.
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2005, 01:50:00 PM »
Uh, yeah, the government does need to keep a tighter leash on gun owners!!  I mean, terrorist groups overseas send people here just to aquire weapons, because they are so easy to obtain here!  And all these hillbilly freaks are always screaming about "My Second Amendment Rights!"  These people are such idiots.  If I spoke French, or even Spanish (but I don't...such a typical American), I would have made plans to move to Europe 2years ago.  

In DC, (where I live), there are guns EVERYWHERE!  I live 5 blocks from the Supreme Court, and I can hear gunshots at night.  Awhile ago, some little girl got hit by a stray bullet while she was in her living room.  And guns are *illegal* in DC.  But everyone has them.  Even regular, law abiding citizens have guns in their home.  One of my girlfriends moved here, she has 3 guns.  She said she was not going to get rid of them, as she lives by herself in this city.  Another friend of mine is married and has 2 little kids.  He used to be a cop, is now a nurse.  He does not plan to get rid of his guns either.  

Just another thing on the list of what is wrong with America...
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 10:28:00 AM »
Yeah, everybody in *my* suburb-city has guns, too.  I live about 2 miles from Kennesaw Georgia where the law is that you *must* own a gun.

But we don't have the same problems of DC.

We *do* have a certain amount of petty theft, like anywhere else, but the criminals here make damned sure nobody's home before breaking into a house.

Wonder why that is?

Don't like the thugs in DC?  Change the law (but you'd have to talk to Congress for that) so that anybody who can pass a background check of being over 21, not a felon, and never involuntarily committed can get a permit to carry one.

Your thugs will get a lot more non-confrontational and a lot more inclined to property crime when there's absolutely *nobody* around than they are now.

Ah Gar-ohn-tee. (insert Cajun voice here)

It's not the guns.

It's that the decent people have to leave theirs home or skulk in fear about carrying one, while the criminals carry theirs with little fear.

In my town, the decent folks are confident and it's the criminal thugs who are afraid.

Yeah, I know the issue we're all here for shows us the dark side of "decent people" and the relative innocence of many of the kids some of the "decent people" demonize.  Most "decent people" really are decent and aren't Program Parents or Program owner/operators.  Most convicted felons really are thugs, and if they start actually attacking someone, dangerous thugs.

Don't take the lesson of Program drones and normal, pain-in-the-ass teens and extend the analogy too far.

Any group has its jerks.  Program people are the jerks of the "decent people" group.

Everybody here owns guns, and we're just fine.  It's not the guns.

Timoclea

Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
 hands are properly his.


--John Locke

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2005, 10:31:00 AM »
Damn straight. Gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Criminals don't follow gun laws.
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2005, 08:26:00 AM »
DC citizens have no Congressmen.
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2005, 04:06:00 AM »
Owning and buying guns is just perpetuating an arms race.  Guns have always been legal, so criminals have obtained them, so people need to buy *more* guns, and so on.

Theoretically, why do citizens need guns?  Even if you live in the country and need to fend off wild animals, why would you need multiple guns?

No other wealthy, developed, educated country allows its citizens to carry guns, and the benefits of that are undeniable.  These countries have like less than 10 deaths a year from gunfire;  they also have a lot less violent crime.  

I'm not sure how to get guns off the street (which is necessary in order to stop the arms race).  But clearly, the risks of rampant gun ownership heavily outweigh the benefits.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2005, 01:31:00 PM »
Bandit, can you support any of those claims?


Just compare violent crime rates in areas w/ similar demographics but differing gun laws.

Quote
Wednesday, January 9, 2002

In 1997, Great Britain outlawed handguns. Lets look at some recent crime statistics from that country.

Number of crimes in which a handgun was used:

1997-1998 - 2,648
1999-2000 - 3,685

Number of murders with a gun in London:

2000 - 16
2001 - 30

Robberies reported in Great Britain in September and November:

1999 - 8,614
2000 - 19,248

Yeah, that handgun ban really made Great Britain a safer place.

Source:

Gun crimes surge in London. Associated Press, January 9, 2002.



D.C. and New York have some of the most strict gun laws in the entire nation and also the highest violent crime rates.

I live near Pittsburgh. We have more than our fair share of poverty and drug trade problems. But we also have a whole lot of hunters. And we have very low crime rates.

Just put yourself in the mind of a criminal for a moment. You're planning to rob a store. You may be willing and able to use violence if you have to, but what you really want is to get the goods and get away w/ as little trouble as possible. Which store are you going to target; the one next to the gun shop where hunters, cops and shooting entheusiasts drop in for coffee and smokes or the one in a school zone where guns are banned? If it were me, I'd avoid the armed people and pick on the unarmed people.

As to why we need guns, well they're useful. And there is absolutely no chance at all that they will be uninvented ever. The only choices we have pertain to who is allowed to own killing force. If it's just the cops and robbers, we're screwed. If everybody has equal access to that important type of power, things generally stay more peaceful.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture
is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin
to understand me?

--O'Brien to Winston Smith



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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2005, 09:03:00 PM »
There may be some gun violence in Great Britian, but nothing compared to what we have here.  

When I have a minute, I'll do some research.  

I'm not here to make some super-strong argument for gun control.  Guns are like an open can of worms that can never be put back.  I just think it's sort of uncouth.
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