Author Topic: A cult?  (Read 59425 times)

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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #270 on: May 19, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-19 13:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yes this has been around before but I guess it needs repeating.......




Anon, you can point out the absurdities, contradictions, cruelty, and scientific absurdities all you want..The truly credulous will just do the twist as evidenced by "anons" response.  


Quote
. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

"




er, sure it is, unless changing it helps clear up these absurdities and contradictions...then you just say  "JESUS, NEW TESTAMENT"  and viola, it all dissapears.

why can't you understand this?

 :grin:

Never mind the cruely, contradictions and absurdities in the new testament...that is a whole nother book to justify and make excuses for.
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #271 on: May 19, 2005, 08:25:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-19 17:03:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:


 but shit, it seems like the explanantions and stories change every time someone calls Bullshit on your book.


OMG, how true that statement is.

When you bring up the absolutley GLARING fallicies, they just fling doodoo against the wall, hoping to divert discussion from the point. Take Virtually ALL the points I have made, not one logical response, not one "hmmmm"...nothing. Just appeals to god and Jesus' superduper supernatural powers.  

Why is the bible true?  god inspired it.

How do you know that? It is written in the book

How do you know what was written is accurate? God inspired it

How can you be sure of this?  It is written in the book.

What about Jesus, How do you know he existed? It is in the book


But how do you know its true?  It is god's inspired word.


This is a summation of their entire circular argument.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #272 on: May 19, 2005, 09:50:00 PM »
never assumed they were yours!
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #273 on: May 19, 2005, 10:13:00 PM »
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On 2005-05-19 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You have quoted all things from the Old Testament.  I know those things have been explained to you in earlier posts, so go back and re read the things Buzzkill told you.  Those posts are very researched and represent what most Christians believe today.  I am sorry you are stuck in the Law.  Try reading the New Testament and see the grace brought by Jesus."


You said "Buzzkill has EXPLAINED TO YOU.....go back and read the things Buzzkill TOLD YOU..

Shit man, can't you even be honest about little things like this? Must you just be contrary for the sake of being contrary?  Do you know how to have a discussion about philosophy without Poopooing the other's arguments with Nonsense?

DAMN!

Okay, I got another one for you.

 :grin:

You say God knows everything....YOU DO SAY THIS, so please don't deny it.

You also claim we are god's creation.

Wouldn't god Know, before he created anyone, that large numbers of SPECIFIC people would never accept him with just faith? That others would never "hear his word". That still others would "be deceived" by other religions.

Wouldn't god know all this EVEN BEFORE ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE BORN?

Therefore, isn't god just creating people for the SOLE PURPOSE OF TORTURING THEM FOR ETERNITY?

How do you resolve this with an all loving god? Is Yahweh a sadist? Does he really like all this blood, burning animal smells, and people gnashing and burning for eternity? Why is all this part of his "perfect plan"?


And please don't say "free will" because even if we assume this, and assume he is all knowing, THEN HE KNOWS IN ADVANCE, BEFORE YOU ARE BORN, that he will torture you for eternity.


Jeeus, I can hardly wait...what are you gonna do this time...The polka dance?

 :grin:  :grin:
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #274 on: May 20, 2005, 11:58:00 AM »
Okay, I am going out of the country for two weeks starting today. This thread has been fun but nothing new.

Anyone care to respond past this point, I can only come here maybe once or twice a day for the next two weeks.

CYA. and remember....

Jesus Slaves!!!!
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #275 on: May 20, 2005, 12:07:00 PM »
Have a great trip!  I've enjoyed reading this thread.  Thanks for keeping it going.  And...Jesus SAVES! :smile:
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #276 on: May 20, 2005, 12:18:00 PM »
Greg, I am not a scientist, but I have a friend that is.  He gets alot of his information from another scientist, Hugh Ross.  Hugh Ross has a website, http://www.reasons.org.  I think you might enjoy reading some of the things listed under artiles.  Not all Christians believe in a new earth or universal flood.  Check out his research when you have a chance and please post what you think.  Thanks!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #277 on: May 20, 2005, 02:33:00 PM »
Thanks, But I am already familiar with Dr. Ross'
"work".

He claims the bible and science are in harmony.

Talking snakes tempting women with magic fruit is in harmony with  science?

Earth created before the stars, sun and moon in harmony with science?

Light being created before the sun in harmony with science?


Dr Ross plays gambler's advocate and concludes that the life on this planet couldn't have happened by chance. Then he jumps from this erroneus conclusion right to God.


Dr. Ross is full of Jesus (and shit) , not science.

Sorry.....


BUT,. if we accept a couple of Ross's premises..that the big bang occured Billions of years ago and that evolution is real, how do you reconcile that with the bible timeline of 6000 years.

Which is it, evolution or the bible?  Are you just picking things you like out of Ross' absurd unscientific postulations and dismissing the rest?

Is this intellectually dishonest?

Of course it is...



And why haven't you responded to my proposition above?  Does your god create people with the foreknowledge that he will torture them for eternity in hell? If so, why so? Is this consistent with a "all knowing loving god?


Aren't you just slinging more dogma and ignoring or poopooing these philosophical arguments?


check yourself.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #278 on: May 20, 2005, 02:38:00 PM »
here is the problem with Ross from a thiestic perspective....


"At first, Dr Ross appeared to be an answer to many an academic who wanted to maintain belief in billions of years, but did not want to be classed as an ?evolutionist.? (Because of the phenomenal influence of the mainstream creation movement (e.g., AiG, ICR), many in the church were aware of the inconsistency of positions such as Theistic Evolution ??God used evolution?).

The teachings of Dr Ross seemingly allowed Christians to use the term ?creationist,? but still give them supposed academic respectability in the eyes of the world, by rejecting six literal days of creation and maintaining acceptance of billions of years.

However, AiG speakers and writers have spent considerable time alerting Christians to the fact that in reality, Ross?s position still has the same basic compromise of evolutionary theory with Scripture as does Theistic Evolution, and ultimately undermines the authority of the Word of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Through such efforts, I have noticed in recent times that many who previously embraced Ross?s teachings are now realizing how bankrupt they are?how much they undermine God?s Holy Word?and how such teaching can lead people away from the Gospel."
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #279 on: May 20, 2005, 02:44:00 PM »
And from a scientific vantage point....

           " Ross?s persistent assertions of science being in full agreement with his particular beliefs, without any factual evidence, reveals that his books are propaganda tools having little to do with either science or the question of the existence of God."

 


http://www.nctimes.net/~mark/bibl_scien ... 0SCIENTIST

Ross apparently isn't much different than most christians as he interprets the bible to fit his conclusions. For example, he "adjusts the meanings of words like day and week in Hebrew to arrive at Billions of years.

yawn.


Apparently no one believes this crackpot except himself and the scientifically and/or scripturally ignorant.  You can't claim on one hand "the bible is scientifically accurate" then on the other claim the world is billions of years old. Nor can you ignore the glaring unscientific items in the bible that rely of the supernatural.



Now, stop playing fling the dogma and answer my questions...and try to be honest this time and don't just go searching for outs like "god wouldn't answer that".

 These are philosophical questions designed to make you think. When answering philosophy, you must try to respond with honesty and integrity.

Try it! You may like it!
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #280 on: May 20, 2005, 02:57:00 PM »
And of course, the christians opposed to Dr Ross' "findings", use this justification for opposing views (including Ross') and for ALL BIBLICAL CRITICISM....

"It is not fear, but rebellion against their Creator. They love the darkness of their unrighteousness rather than the light of the God?s holy truth"

Then they site bible passages that would lead the ignorant reader to conclude that all positions not consistent with young earth creation are "evil".

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs200 ... s_full.asp

 :wstupid:


In a nutshell, "Believe with me my supernatural book or love the darkness you evil god hater"


This is the dogma you have signed up for....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #281 on: May 20, 2005, 04:58:00 PM »
Anon,
thats what my brother says about sin. what an easy answer. Its ok to sin because all you have to do is repent and poof! You are forgiven! So people like my step mom who claim to be Christians and people like "Rev" Phelps can do what they want to others as long as they ask forgivness.
Amanda
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #282 on: May 21, 2005, 02:54:00 AM »
bump...I am in Costa Rica!



Someone answer my last questions please
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #283 on: May 21, 2005, 08:15:00 AM »
Amanda,  The Bible actually talks directly to your question.  Romans 5 thru 7 talks about how we are not to take grace lightly.  Forgiveness doesn't mean to sin more and more.  People sin.  If a believer asks for forgiveness and repents of that sin, he/she is forgiven.  Forgiveness doesn't justify sin, only forgives it.  If one of my children breaks an heirloom, I will forgive them, no problem, but it doesn't mean they can go thru the house destroying everything because they have been forgiven.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #284 on: May 21, 2005, 09:32:00 AM »
Greg,

There are many things I don't understand, yet rely on, electricity, television, telephone, cell phones and the wireless internet!  I don't need to understand the nuances of these things to accept their benefits and also sometimes their, if you will, their curses.  These are just little things, things much less important and less complicated than God.  I will not claim now or ever to have all the answers about God.  No one can.  Well, I guess they can claim, but there is no way to really know, just as there is no way to really know exactly how everything began.  Many Christians do not believe in a 6000 year old earth.  Honestly, I don't really care how old the earth is.  But I know it is important to many for some reason.  I have been told that the original word used in Genesis for day is the same one that is used when the Bible refers to an age which could be years.  There is also scripture that says a day for the Lord is like a thousand years.  So, the earth age, universal flood vs. regional flood, I don't see those as important.  

I am trying to answer you honestly and I do hope that you don't see me as trying to cram anything down your throat.  I am also not trying to belittle or be sarcastic or avoid.  I am trying to be genuine.  You are asking questions that I have asked myself before.  I find that many people start looking, seeking answers and when they think they have found it, they stop. Clinging for dear life to the answer they have found because they so desparately want to be right.  Unfortunately, I think, that keeps people from growing.  There is nothing like doubt to make you look deeper and learn more.

The written word, or in this case, e-mail word, doesn't express sentiment.  I hope you understand that I am truly enjoying your posts.  Not in an entertainment value, but because they do make me think, re-evaluate.  Your posts do not make me question my faith, but rather my ability to express my faith.  I must always be ready to give an answer for my hope.  You have shown me once again, that I need to be more ready.  

I am going to try another analogy.  I know it is not the perfect one, but maybe it can express a little how I view God.  I have a three year old.  By the way she is precious!  I love her dearly.  She is able to understand what I tell her, but she is not yet able to understand the why's of everything I tell her yet.  There are times she needs to obey just because I tell her to.  Sometimes those things could be life saving.  Like, STOP!  At that moment there isn't time to explain that a car is backing out of the parking lot and doesn't see her.  She just has to trust that I have been faithful in my instruction and obedience is necessary.  And please don't just pick at and point out the holes in this analogy.  It would take a book to cover everything I have thought of regarding it. Just read it, trying to see the heart of it.  As a child of God, I don't really need to know the why's of everything.  He has been faithful to me so many times that I need to sometimes just obey.  And I know.... what about cow killing, and sister selling...He doesn't ask us to do that.  The Bible reports history as well as how to live.  Just because the Bible says people did some things, doesn't mean they were always approved of, or ordered.  God did have requirements in the Old Testament that are no longer required.  Much of what is reported I see as foreshadowing of His ultimate plan.  I also see those arguments as deversions.  And, I do not think they were originally yours, but Niles.  

This is getting soooooooo long I don't even know if you will care to take the time to read it.  Your last question is the one I have been struggling with the most myself.  It is one that I have thought about alot over the last year.  I do see it as much more relevant than the age of the earth, or the flood issue, or cow burning.  I know you are familiar with the Calvinist vs. Armenian debate.  I admit to you now that I am not as familiar with it as I should be.  I have really just started digging into what I believe regarding it.  It is a debate that has gone on since scripture.  No man KNOWS the complete answer.  

I do believe in an all knowing, all powerful, ever present, all loving God.  I am going to try and answer and explain my answer to your question about God creating people for the sole purpose of damnation.  Please do not think that I am saying this is the definative answer and is God's word.  This is just my thought.  As I continue to read, pray, and research, this thought could change!

I believe, God created everything and everyone.  He chooses and loves each person.  He gives them free will to choose Him or not.  He knows what their choice will be.  He has the power to change that choice but doesn't exercise it.  Those that do not choose Him will still further His purposes and plans and be used to show His glory.  The Pharoah in Egypt at the time of Moses could have let the people go at any time, but God knew he wouldn't and so God's power was shown then.  Yes, many died.  It is a sad story as well.  But God also gave a way out.  He told the people how to avoid the angel of death.  Those that obeyed were spared.  I see God as faithful and just, as well as loving.  Justice is not always happy, neat and pretty.  I don't know why He chooses to do the things He does the way He does, but this is where faith comes in.  The Bible talks about a loving, merciful God, but also about a jealous, just, God.  I think His wrath is as great as His love.  He has proven to me that He is faithful, just, merciful and loving.  So I must trust Him in the things I do not understand.  I don't believe this to be blind faith.  Blind faith is when there is no evidence.  There are many evidences in my life where only a loving God could have rescued me from my actions. So, back to the cell phone, t.v., and all that other stuff I don't really get....I have found when I suffer the "curses" of them, like computer crashes and the sort, it is 99% of the time not the computer, phone, or t.v.'s fault.  It is usually something I have done wrong.  I either failed to read the directions, or misunderstood them.  I think that is true with people.  When people act in horrible ways using God as an excuse, I very much believe they have misunderstood, or just used God. When they see God as not doing what they think He should, it is because we have miss read the directions, the Bible, or misunderstood it.  It doesn't mean that the directions were written wrong, just that my finite, untechnological mind, doesn't get it.  

Sorry this is so long.  Greg, I hope Costa Rica is wonderful.  That is a place I have always wanted to visit.  I love beaches, jungles, and fishing.  I hear all are great there!  I hope you are there for pleasure.  If it is business, I hope you have time to make it pleasure as well.  Thanks for your time here.
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