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Offline confuzdmom

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« on: May 05, 2005, 11:25:00 PM »
Posted this also over on the khk forum.Just thought Id let you know WKRC (channel 12)in cincinnati just had a story on teen meth use. At the end of the story they had the tag.."If your child needs help, please call Kids Helping Kids" & gave the phone number.My daughter update: got probation,house arrest & lost her d license til she's 18 & then flunked a piss test with 500 ml? of cocaine. And a quick ?? I think I found a bag of what I think may be crack. It's small baby teeth sized off white chunks with tannish brown flecks in it. It kind of smells sweet. Its in the standard bag of choice-cellophane cig wrapper. 3 small chunks. any input here?
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 08:59:00 AM »
Could be crank, rather than crack. I have read that crank can have a brownish look; but ususally is snow white. I don't know what either smell like myself.

You can learn a lot just by googling related terms.

Google, crack; and tweek or tweak; ad an er to both terms - tweeker/tweaker; Meth;  I got good results on ask jeeves with 'How to get off meth'.

If it is crank rather than crack - don't sigh with relief. Crank is worse.

I saw the following on a bumper sticker and have been assured by many it is true:
Tweekers make crack heads look classy.

It really is a terrible problem.

I found a site offering a home detox kit. May be a total load of crap - I don't know. I'd be interested in peoples opinions if anyone want to bother to take a look:
http://www.quitmeth.com/

they have a forum:
http://www.quitmeth.com/yabbse/index.php
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 10:23:00 AM »
What *I* would do is flush it.  Just flush it.

If my Katie was doing this, I'd tell her that my home was not a safe place to store her illicit drugs or drug-use tools--like pipes or bongs or such.

I'd tell her I would continue searching the house regularly and discarding any such I found there.

I'd tell her trying to store drugs or drug-tools in my house would be a waste of her time and money, because I would find them and discard them.

I don't think I'd up the ante beyond that and beyond letting her deal with the legal consequences of whatever she got caught at.

If it was my Katie, and I could afford it, I would probably even hire her a lawyer and pay the lawyer to do a basic, competent job---no extreme measures.  I'd want her to get fair representation and I don't think public defenders provide that even if a judge *would* assign her one (I don't know if they do that if the parents aren't indigent).  But I'd tell the lawyer that beyond my only being willing to pay for court appearances and a certain number of hours on the case, I just didn't want to know--my Katie's defense, for better or worse, would be between the lawyer and her.  If called to the stand by either side, I'd be completely truthful to the best of my ability, no more and no less.

I wouldn't let Katie store drugs in my house.  I wouldn't go to court and lie for her or plead for leniency for her.  But I also wouldn't let her get an unfair trial.  I'd try not to affect the outcome of her actions from getting caught by the law either way---either up or down--beyond seeing she got fair but not extravagent legal representation.

When we had some problems with Katie doing something while manic, we just paid restitution and then made her work the debt off at home at the closest thing to market rates we could figure.  And she was grounded until she worked it off.  But if she'd wanted to seek work from some neighbors or gotten such work and wanted to pay some or all of her debt with money honestly earned elsewhere, we would have let her off grounding to seek and/or do that work.  We tried to be absolutely strictly neutral to the consequences---neither lightening her load for her nor making it worse ourselves.  She caused damage.  All we did was ensure the restitution was paid up front and didn't have to wait.  *She* had to deliver that restitution and repay every penny of it.

You can never tell how a parenting strategy really worked until your kid is entirely grown.

But as far as we can tell, letting her experience the natural consequences the same way they'd be if she did damage as an adult *seems* to have been effective.  I think it was effective *because* we weren't rescuing her, but it was also clear we weren't "piling on" on top of her either---so she had no distraction from us interfering with her understanding that all her life it was going to be the same way---if you do harm or do wrong, *society* will impose certain consequences and you'll just have to pay the piper--so it's better not to get yourself in the sh!t in the first place.

My philosophy as a parent, and time will tell how well or whether it works, is that rescuing them is a distraction because they think, "Oh, Mommy will always take care of me." BUT piling on extra punishment is also a distraction because they think, "Oh, Mommy's so mean to me!  Mean old Mommy."  

I think either thought blunts the impact of the real lesson:  hey, when I do bad stuff, bad stuff is gonna happen to *me*!  Whether Mommy is around or not.

I don't know if that gives you any ideas that could help you or not, but for whatever it's worth, it is *so far* working with my 9 year old seriously mentally ill daughter (why I'm saying that is to let you know parenting her is more challenging than if she were healthy, and that I have sympathy for you dealing with a difficult adolescence because we already know to expect one).

I was a difficult teen (I also have a serious mental illness--which was undiagnosed and untreated, mostly,*** in my teenage years), and as near as I can tell, this is what my parents did with me.  When I got in trouble, they didn't wade in to get between me and my trouble, but they didn't hugely pile on extra trouble on top of it.  They'd ground, scold, or punish me for typical minor teenage stuff, but anything biggish they just let the consequences fall and offered advice about how to handle it when I seemed in the mood to listen or if I asked.

I don't know if it will work with your daughter, but it worked for my parents when they tried it on me.  I'm a happily married college grad and published author with one child who is doing okay given her health.

It also worked on my sister, who was more conventionally wild like you describe your daughter to be.  It took awhile to work, but my sister is happily married with two children.  She stopped college with an associates degree, but she's always had the natural talent to sell ice to Eskimos, so she really only needed the polish of college, not the content.  Self-education afterwards has provided all the added knowledge she's needed.  Her husband is retired Navy, so my sister managed to not only make a success as a wife, she dealt well with the extra stresses of being a Navy wife.  For the people disgruntled about my not being Christian, my other two sisters are more than Christian enough to make up for me--so by anyone's rational standards, I guess our parents did alright.

The other thing our parents did was always went to church and always made us go, growing up.  I don't think the benefit was from the specific church so much as it was from letting us know that being kind and good people was very important.

Timoclea
***long story, and complicated.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 10:31:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-05-05 20:25:00, confuzdmom wrote:

 I think I found a bag of what I think may be crack. It's small baby teeth sized off white chunks with tannish brown flecks in it. It kind of smells sweet. Its in the standard bag of choice-cellophane cig wrapper. 3 small chunks. any input here?"


Oh, that's an easy one.....

Send a PM to RTP2003 and I'll give you an address to send it to.....
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Offline confuzdmom

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 10:58:00 AM »
Thank you. My daughters Katie,also. Its going from bad to worse here. Older sis came home last night & apparently my Katie is a crack ho. She & her friends will suck or f&ck for the crack. I know theres an underlying issue (duh)maybe bipolar, but we cant diagnose it while she's using. I dont think Ive ever felt so helpless.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 11:37:00 AM »
Oh, one other thing.  We do martial arts as a family down at the dojo where I'm an assistant instructor.

Part of our dojo's philosophy is that martial arts is a way of life.  It's about how you live away from the school as well as how you behave in class.

The school's tenets are:

Courtesy: Showing respect for yourself and others
Integrity: Honesty and truthfulness in all matters
Self-Control: Mastering our emotions and actions
Perseverence: Never giving up
Indomitable Spirit: Undefeatable attitude

We say them at the start of each class, and if you seriously break them with misbehavior outside of class, and your parents (or I guess even someone else, though narking out your friends isn't by any means *ever* solicited) tell on you, you have to give back your belt and get smoked (just the once per screw-up) and get a talking-to from the master of the school.  And typically in the next class you attend, all the kids have to do extra exercise because there's a "when one does wrong, all do wrong" attitude of the master and the school for the kids.  But the extra exercise is not terribly bad--nothing like the nightmare stuff of the Programs.  And the master lectures all the kids periodically, at the beginning of class, about whatever issues the various kids are facing--and when a kid is mastering a difficult situation he'll stand that kid up in front of the class and talk about how well they're doing.  But he *doesn't* come in class and tell you exactly what the other kid's misdeeds are---you just know who screwed up, and maybe you get some small hints about how from stuff you hear, but you aren't *told*.  And while no attempt is made to conceal what happened, there's also no attempt to "tell without telling."  And then they have to earn their belt back to get it back.  And you never get an invitation to test for the next belt unless your attitude and behavior out of class are right, too.

We joined the dojo because self-control can be very difficult for bipolar kids (and adults) and a *good* martial arts school does a good job of teaching self-control.  It particularly teaches self-control about hitting people, so that no matter how mad you are, you *don't*--unless someone is really trying to hurt you and you really do need to defend yourself from harm.  And even then you learn to use the least amount of force necessary to the situation.  (Although if some adult is trying to seriously injure you, or grab you, or kill you, that necessary force could be quite a lot.)

It's not the right choice for everyone.  In our case, it makes a difference that it's something we're doing as a family, and that her dad and I already had enough martial arts training to be substantially ahead of her in belt level.  She'd never even *think* of using what she's learning against us because she's seen us spar and seen us teach.  She *knows* she'd just end up safely immobilized in a (properly controlled) joint lock and then in a world of ordinary trouble.

My parents supplemented their teaching with positive community example by taking us to a strong, smallish (45 or so), close-knit church that they attended with us, regularly.  It wasn't one of those huge monster churches where nobody knows anybody, and it wasn't so small that there was nobody to hang with.

We add a positive community by attending a really good dojo regularly.

The only thing they really have in common was that we do it as a family and the activity's wholesome and that there's somebody there who talks about doing the right thing and there's an emphasis on doing the right thing.

It can be scouting, or baseball, anything wholesome with a lot of family involvement where some adult authority figure in addition to you shows and talks about growing into a decent person.

If you used to do this with anything, and don't now, maybe you could get back into it.  If you never did, I don't know if there's anything you can start in the teen years that would do as well.

If it were me, I'd start some kind of physical sport you could do with your daughter---anything from jazzercize to tennis to softball---and do it with her as if you're really enjoying it (about as much as she is).  Feel it out, if she wants to change activities, change.  Just let her pick an activity you both do.

I don't care if it's a pole dancing class.  While she's in class with you, at least for those hours, she isn't drugging or screwing or anything else antisocial.  And it really needs, if at all possible, to be something physical that involves aerobic exercise to the point that you hit and get your "second wind."

The reason is that that releases all sorts of exercise-triggered endorphins and makes you feel good.  What you're doing is trying to transfer her antisocial drug choices to a completely socially acceptable drug of choice--exercise--with family.

If you can get her in an activity where the instructor talks about character, more's the better, but if you can't, at this age, I'd say take what you can get.

You want to do this at least three times a week--more if you can get it.

If you have to, appeal to her vanity.  Say you want to look fit and toned (or if you already work out, say you want a change), and somehow appeal to her desire to look good.  Starving yourself never looks as good as nicely toned muscles--there's no attractiveness substitute for exercise.

"It's three hours a week.  How much time do you spend doing your hair?  You can't spare three hours a week doing something to make your body look good?  Pick something fun, I'm buying."

I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but exercising together, whatever it is you do, helps at least some.

You may already do this, I don't know.  

But that's the only tip I've got.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 12:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-06 07:58:00, confuzdmom wrote:

"Thank you. My daughters Katie,also. Its going from bad to worse here. Older sis came home last night & apparently my Katie is a crack ho. She & her friends will suck or f&ck for the crack. I know theres an underlying issue (duh)maybe bipolar, but we cant diagnose it while she's using. I dont think Ive ever felt so helpless."


I'm calling bullshit. Nobody refers to their children in this way. By the way, that sweet smell- it's crack. (probably yours right?)
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2005, 03:20:00 PM »
If your daughter is promiscuous, or even just sexually active, the very most important thing is that she has had good sex education (really, all kids need good sex ed.).

From what I understand, these days kids are not getting thorough, informative, or even factual information in sex ed.  

I was sexually active since age 16.  But about age 12, I read (every month) "Teen" magazine, and nearly every month they had excellent information about STD's and contraception.  

Having all that information empowered me to make responsible and informed choices, both before and after I started to have sex.

Good sexual education is *very* important.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2005, 03:45:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-06 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-05-06 07:58:00, confuzdmom wrote:


"Thank you. My daughters Katie,also. Its going from bad to worse here. Older sis came home last night & apparently my Katie is a crack ho. She & her friends will suck or f&ck for the crack. I know theres an underlying issue (duh)maybe bipolar, but we cant diagnose it while she's using. I dont think Ive ever felt so helpless."




I'm calling bullshit. Nobody refers to their children in this way. By the way, that sweet smell- it's crack. (probably yours right?)"


I call second. BS that is.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2005, 04:15:00 PM »
Its the kind of statment that makes ya think "troll", but it might also be a parent so freaked out and super stressed, that they aren't thinking clearly and are reacting from that place were we all say things we shouldn't.
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2005, 05:42:00 PM »
I'd like to suggest again that you find a good drug rehabilitation center right away for your daughter. She will need to detox and go through withdrawl.  I'm sure there are several in your area. Your insurance should pay for a reputable program.  Best Wishes to you....

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
--Author: Sir William Drummond

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Offline confuzdmom

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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2005, 05:54:00 PM »
no, its not b.s. I am 39 yrs old,married to my daughters' father for 21 years and have three daughters.I have been very involved in their lives, and understand that kids experiment with drugs. I also have educated my girls about their bodies, and the 2 older ones came to me, and I took them to a doctor to get birth control. Then I bought them condoms, because an unwanted pregnancy is the least of their problems (std's etc)Yes, the terms f**k & s&*k is extreme & vulgar, but thats what she's doing, and it's breaking our hearts. So, she's getting the help she needs right now via detox at cincinnati childrens hospital so we can then work on the other issues. And, no I wasnt thinking very clearly last night, as Ive had about 6 hours of sleep in the past 4 days.I just wanted to tell you about the story on wkrc & ask a question that I knew the answer in my heart already. I wont be back. Im grateful for your info re khk,but when parents are trying to help their children, it isnt helpful & quite frankly pretty disturbing to read posts from buzzkill & anonymous.Like people in the midst of this need any more negativity. Good luck to you all.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2005, 06:29:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-06 14:54:00, confuzdmom wrote:

"Im grateful for your info re khk,but when parents are trying to help their children, it isnt helpful & quite frankly pretty disturbing to read posts from buzzkill & anonymous.Like people in the midst of this need any more negativity."

::boohoo::  :scared:

Quote
I wont be back.


:wave:
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2005, 07:30:00 PM »
I'm glad she's in treatment if she's using meth.  I'm all for not making a big deal when kids experiment with drugs, but in my opinion, meth is a whole other ballgame.  I have seen peoples's lives ruined by the stuff.  

Here in Hawaii, we have a huge epidemic.  In the states, people mostly snort it, but here in Hawaii people smoke it, so it's easier to do and way more addictive.  Unfortunately, more money is being spent fighting marijuana than meth in HI, so the problem is only getting worse.

Anyway, my best friend who went to VCA (Fundie Baptist behvior mod facility in FL) got addicted to meth when she got out.  After 5 years, her parents threatened to kick her out on the street if she didn't go to rehab, so she did to appease them.  Halfway through the one-month program, she realized meth was ruining her life and the program ended up being successful for her.  It was a regular state-run rehab where her family could visit every day and she could call friends at certain times.  Then she did post-treatment treatment (there's probably a better way to say that) for about a year.

Her personality has changed forever.  She used to be really outspoken and confident and fiesty.  Now she's afraid of what people think and sort of reclusive.  Those five years really damaged her.  But I think maybe if she hadn't had those five years to meet other tweakers and see what she could become, she might not have been ready to get off the stuff.

I know a lot of other tweakers too.  My daughter's dad is one.  She's caught him smoking it a few times.  He's been on and off for years.  He's never been to rehab and probably never will go to rehab.  His parents make a lot of excuses for him and like to do stupid stuff like "turn over a new leaf."  His primary concern is convincing people he's not on meth when he is.

Anyway, that's my feeling on meth.  I don't feel that way about a lot of drugs.  I would not freak out about coke, LSD, pot, or most things.  But meth, in my opinion, is a serious problem.  Also, there have been a lot of studies about brain damage that I totally believe because I've seen it in real life.  I'll try to find info to post when I have time.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2005, 10:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-06 14:54:00, confuzdmom wrote:

"no, its not b.s. I am 39 yrs old,married to my daughters' father for 21 years and have three daughters.I have been very involved in their lives, and understand that kids experiment with drugs. I also have educated my girls about their bodies, and the 2 older ones came to me, and I took them to a doctor to get birth control. Then I bought them condoms, because an unwanted pregnancy is the least of their problems (std's etc)Yes, the terms f**k & s&*k is extreme & vulgar, but thats what she's doing, and it's breaking our hearts. So, she's getting the help she needs right now via detox at cincinnati childrens hospital so we can then work on the other issues. And, no I wasnt thinking very clearly last night, as Ive had about 6 hours of sleep in the past 4 days.I just wanted to tell you about the story on wkrc & ask a question that I knew the answer in my heart already. I wont be back. Im grateful for your info re khk,but when parents are trying to help their children, it isnt helpful & quite frankly pretty disturbing to read posts from buzzkill & anonymous.Like people in the midst of this need any more negativity. Good luck to you all."


I'm the other Katie's mom again.

Just in case you do read, I'll reply.

I have a friend whose sister was a crack ho.  She was down in the projects sleeping in a crack house and doing guys for the crack--didn't care who she was doing.

They went down and got her and got her detoxed to get the stuff out of her system.  She also got an abortion because she was pregnant with a crack dealer's kid.  But she didn't get HIV or other incurable STD.  I don't know about the curable ones.

She ended up married and had a kid.  She and her husband still occasionally did small amounts of coke on the weekend.  While I think that was incredibly stupid of them, I saw her at my friend's funeral in November.  At that time she'd been married and more or less sober for, oh, I dunno, about twelve or thirteen years.

(Cancer got my friend--it was lung cancer, and he was in his 50's, but cancer was in his family--it got one of his kids as a child, too)

Anyway, when I saw her she was sober enough to fool me, and looked healthy, and still seemed okay--basically your average suburban mom.

So for whatever it's worth, for some people anyway there *is* life after being a crack ho.

If I were you I'd be scared half to death, but I figured it might help to hear about *somebody* who more or less made it back to "real life" from that.

All I can say is hospitalize her, get her detoxed, get her evaluated to see if you can get a diagnosis, and try to treat whatever it apparently is.

Good luck.

Timoclea
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