Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 14:02:00, Dolphin wrote:

"The picture isnt from Cross Creek -



The hobbitt at SCL -in the photo - has heat, so it wasn't like it was cold.  You're in the mountains, so unless they had a separate cabin for kids that acted out or were threatening to hurt someone, where else would you give them some time to think about their actions?  THey could beg all they wanted, but until they proved they weren't going to hurt anyone, they had to be somewhere they didn't like to be.  If they liked it, they'd want to stay and do nothing.  Could it be that all the kids that go there are good kids making good choices and someone just decided they wanted to put someone in there for no reason.  It's unbelievable how enabling you all are!  Apparently you've never dealt with a angry kid that needed some "think" time.   "

The amount of WWASPie bullshit you manage to stuff into one small post is amazing. Go on believing that you are "helping", that anyone who knows the truth about WWASP is "enabling", that all these hundreds of children are all "manipulators", that your son was actually helped at Cross Creek.

You let them murder your son's psyche, as well as your own. And you expect others to sit calmly and let this go on? Yeah, right.

Your little cult is going down.

[Anonymous]

I don't know how to post pictures here, so I'm posting a link. It's a picture of the OP rooms at Cross Creek.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/des ... -rooms.jpg

[001010]

Dolphin, you can't even see right from wrong anymore. It's scary.  You're rationalizing child abuse!

If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 14:02:00, Dolphin wrote:

"The picture isnt from Cross Creek -



The hobbitt at SCL -in the photo - has heat, so it wasn't like it was cold.  You're in the mountains, so unless they had a separate cabin for kids that acted out or were threatening to hurt someone, where else would you give them some time to think about their actions?  THey could beg all they wanted, but until they proved they weren't going to hurt anyone, they had to be somewhere they didn't like to be.  If they liked it, they'd want to stay and do nothing.  Could it be that all the kids that go there are good kids making good choices and someone just decided they wanted to put someone in there for no reason.  It's unbelievable how enabling you all are!  Apparently you've never dealt with a angry kid that needed some "think" time.   "

Every single statement you made was wrong. Every damn sentence. Amazing.

[Anonymous]

ON ISOLATION ROOMS IN MENTAL HOSPITALS: I saw one at Vista Del Mar - it was right off of the nurses station - it was the size of a small bedroom with a comfortable bed and chair in it.  It wasn't a punishment cell like WWASP uses.  They are violating the law whenever they use these cells for mentally ill chidlren. Prolonged isolation is considered torture - 72 hours is agains the law in Utah. According to the core rules - isolation can not exceed four hours and it can't interfere with sleep.  So when they keep a child in there for 72 hours it's a violation of rules and regulations - of course the authorities never enforse the rules.  Most people don't make a report of these violations. I'd suggest that someone who has been there - please make a report to the authorties.  Indicated that they are isolating children in punishment cells for long periods of time - days, weeks etc.  This needs to be reported to the proper authorities.

[Perrigaud]

People people...How funny it is. Take down abusive? No not if that person is harming themselves or others. I never witnessed anyone taken down for reasons that were trivial. Isolation? Whatever didn't see a girl who didn't belong there be in it. Abuse? Come on people.
Dolphin isn't ALL wrong as you would like to think she is.

Antigen,
 I did see take downs. Just none I deem as abusive.

Amanda and I aggree a call to reformation is in order. Be clear we are not 100% All about the program. You people like to pigeon hole us into that.

Our Cult is going down? Sure. I just hope you people can find alternatives that work.

[Anonymous]

Perrigand,

I've read enough of your Pro program nonsense. Take downs DO occur they hurt the kids.
Take th egirl currently sing WWASP in Florida, When they took her down her jaw was broken.The Casa staff put a boys tooth through his lower lip.He was totally unsuspecting a takedown He wasnt struggling or anything.It goes on and on.My child hurt his elboe when the staff took him down for no reason.They left him in th Hobbit until his arm would heal so no one else saw the injury.

Maybe you selectively didnt see take downs,but make no mistake they DID occur and kids were badly hurt.Thats called ABUSE.

You make the stay in thsi Prohram sound like a walk in the park.Its not. It can be dangerous and unnecessary mistreatment of kids.In my opinion.From my persoanl experience speaking with many kids who had been enrolled in thsi organizations many facilities.From some that have been closed.

You are obviously a very smart girl or a wwasp plant one or the other. Dont do a diservice to those fellow kids who have been hurt,neglected by this organization.Be truthful and have integrity not fairy land nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Not only is the statement wrong its a LIE.  This must be the shiny new cult parent.You are stating what you have been told by the people who have alot to gain from your believing them.

Its not heated.It designed to be torture from isolation.

[BuzzKill]

If you want to read sworn testimony about the un-heated Hobit; or bloody take downs that occur with no provocation or warning - read over John France's testimony; and Chris Goodwin's testimony, in the WWASP V PURE trial transcripts.

Isac has it up on the web site now.

http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/wwaspsvpure.pdf


[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-23 08:05 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-23 07:00:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"People people...How funny it is. Take down abusive? No not if that person is harming themselves or others. I never witnessed anyone taken down for reasons that were trivial. Isolation? Whatever didn't see a girl who didn't belong there be in it. Abuse? Come on people.

Dolphin isn't ALL wrong as you would like to think she is.



Antigen,

 I did see take downs. Just none I deem as abusive.



Amanda and I aggree a call to reformation is in order. Be clear we are not 100% All about the program. You people like to pigeon hole us into that.



Our Cult is going down? Sure. I just hope you people can find alternatives that work. "

You keep writing lines like, "I'm not 100% about the program", "I'm not as programmed as you think I am", "I think the program should be reformed", etc.

And then you go right ahead and post line after line of WWASPie bullshit.

I've been reading your posts since you first started posting here. At first, you managed to fool me. I thought, finally I'm seeing a WWASP graduate who is capable of seeing beyond the party line. But that was just a mask you put on to make us think you're different than the average WWASPie. You're not. Your complete acceptance of each and every bit of their ideology, your defence of their abusive practices... your posts speak for themselves.

Yes, you are 100% about the program. You are 100% in agreement with WWASP in each and every part of their murderous ideology. You will defend your cult and its "treatment" methods and you'll keep on attacking anyone who speaks the truth about Cross Creek and the other gulags.

I hope for your sake that someone will get you to an exit counselor.

[Antigen]

What works? Growing up works. Not having your family ship you off works pretty good. I know, I know, you were sooooo horribley messed up that you couldn't possibly have ever lived to see the age of majority w/o the Program. Heard it before, many times. Don't happen to believe it.

Perri what happens to someone at CCM if they walk out of the room, look out a window, ignore demands to do whatever and just passively resist the programing?

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
--Albert Einstein

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[SHH Anon Classics]

I have seen this picture on another site, and there is no child in the picture. This picture is doctored with some sort of photoshop software to make it look as if a child is in that room at the time the photo was taken.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-04-22 14:41:00, Exit Plan wrote:

"Some of the kids sent to the hobbit didn't explode or misbehave. They simply wouldn't/couldn't work the program. Remember the nerdy/strange kids in high school who would hang out alone and 'act strange'? There were some of them at spring creek too. There is a very real social structure to a prison environment, and there is always someone on the bottom of the food chain.



Everyone in the family would vent their anger on those kids, and they'd get physically beat up ALL the time. They would then do something they knew would get them up in the hobbit, because they'd rather spend months alone than be subjected to beatings and humiliation from their peers and staff. They had no advocate. This was the type of person who was in the 'hobbit crew' mostly.



A 'reasonable', emotionally stable person usually wouldn't stay more than 3 days (the punishment for CAT 5 offenses), it's easier to fake your way through the program. It's MUCH easier to progress, and at least obtain some basic privelages. To stay on level 2 isn't difficult, heck, it only takes a week or two to get there starting from zero, and you can live in relative ease. You get brown sugar in your oatmeal like everyone else, a candy bar a week, and 3 square meals. So why would some kids stay for weeks and months in the hobbit?



The only reason I am on here talking about Spring Creek five years after I left is because of the kids who CAN'T emotionally or physically defend themselves against this sort of abuse/neglect/manipulation. The 12 year olds, the kids who should never have been there. We ALL know this is a high percentage.



I only spent 3 days in the hobbit at a time during my longest stay, they spent weeks and months there. I talked to them. I saw the humanity draining out of them. This was not 'think time' by any definition. It was torture, abuse and downright wrong.



You are enabling abuse by supporting these programs, not us.



_________________

As Mao Tse-tung once said the secret is simply to convince the ?patient? he was sick and that they had the cure.[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2005-04-22 14:42 ]"

Back when I was a teenager, or rather, basically from birth until sometime after I highschool and I got a tougher shell and a chip on my shoulder - and isntead of turning the other cheek, I'd pull back my fist and get angry... I was one of those weak kids.

Sure, I wasn't put in a hobbit, but I was subject to the whims of apathetic adminstrators, teachers, and 'peers' of mine allowed to do as they wanted.

I was also suffering from a undiagnosed, unhelped semantic pragmatic disorder. I was one of the 'nerdy types' who was socially akward and unable to understand or express properly. Some think it was a result of being an exceptionally high-functioning autistic, but now thats been thrown into question.

Whether or not I have aspergers, I've gotten the ability to hit back and look out for others after suffering through an admittedly watered down version of childhood misery, and I'll be damned if I'll let it continue.

I'm sure some programmie is gonna come up and start venting bullshit at me, like dolphin or what the fuck ever... but the way I 'deal' with past injustice is preventing it from happening again, not bullshit seminars trying to mask the feelings! So why not stop abusing kids and I'll stop doing whatever the hell you all say I'm doing  :grin:

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark.  The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.  
--Plato

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-23 08:56:00, Antigen wrote:

Perri what happens to someone at CCM if they walk out of the room, look out a window, ignore demands to do whatever and just passively resist the programing?

And what happens to a kid who refuses the strip search?

Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 14:02:00, Dolphin wrote:

"The picture isnt from Cross Creek -



The hobbitt at SCL -in the photo - has heat, so it wasn't like it was cold.  You're in the mountains, so unless they had a separate cabin for kids that acted out or were threatening to hurt someone, where else would you give them some time to think about their actions?  THey could beg all they wanted, but until they proved they weren't going to hurt anyone, they had to be somewhere they didn't like to be.  If they liked it, they'd want to stay and do nothing.  Could it be that all the kids that go there are good kids making good choices and someone just decided they wanted to put someone in there for no reason.  It's unbelievable how enabling you all are!  Apparently you've never dealt with a angry kid that needed some "think" time.   "

Are you kidding?!  I've dealt with a raging bipolar.  I've *been* a raging bipolar.

"Proved" they weren't going to hurt anyone?!  You can't prove a negative.  Talk about a Catch-22.

Have you ever *tried* to stay someplace and "do nothing"?  You run out of steam to do that.

Just like trying to sustain a rage---without someone to rage back and forth *with*, you wind down.

What *your* parents did didn't work.  Unless the kid is dangerously mentally ill and is in a facility that works on the medical, not behavioral, model, GOOD conventional parenting works.

What works?  Parenting classes from someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

My parents weren't superhuman, they made mistakes.  My sister and some of her friends were just about as wild as they come.  Some of my friends were as wild as they come and I was no angel and no picnic, either.  Our parents managed because they knew effective parenting strategies for a teenager take time.

You have to spend as much time parenting a wild teenager as you do a two-year-old.  Too tough? "Wah."  Affection, even when they're in one of their really obnoxious phases, a determinedly pleasant home environment (around the teen--the wild teen is NOT pleasant, I know), serious adult supervision, and acceptance that you're just going to be able to keep the wildness down to a dull roar until they grow up.

The wildest, rottenest kids I knew in school were already straightening up to be *mostly* decent and *mostly* a bit mature by twelfth grade.

Most of the parents of the kids who are *not* genuinely disabled are immature brats themselves who have never stuck with something hard in their lives.  They pick marriages too casually and either don't ditch out *before* having kids together or don't stick it out, and while a lot of people who have broken marriages with kids are mature adults and cope, these parents just throw in the towel too soon.  

Yes, they have to do something, and it has to be something they aren't already doing, but they're picking the wrong thing.  They tell themselves they're "doing the hardest thing they've ever done"   ::boohoo::  by sending their kid away, but that's a load of bullcrap.  They send their kid away because it's *easier* than living with the turmoil and coping.

You don't "fix" a wild child teen.  You don't stop their bad behavior.  You use your greater life experience and very real parental power to maneuver them to keep it down to a dull roar until they grow out of it.

That's "all", but it's hard.

So what?  Life's hard, get over it already.

Timoclea