Author Topic: To All Straight Survivors  (Read 5945 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2003, 10:28:00 AM »
Forgiving staff members at straight could be an impossibility to some people. How can one forgive people for torturing and dementing the minds of children especially if that mind is your own. These staff members (staff trainees not included)were there of their own free will.  They knew what they were doing.  I quess they could plead insanity, but that doesnt help what they did to people.  Sometimes sorry is just not enough.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2003, 10:48:00 AM »
SYNONYMS: forgive, pardon, excuse, condone These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: ?Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them? (Oscar Wilde). Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned. To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: ?There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse? (J.A. Froude). To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.  

In my mind, most on this post have already forgiven staff because they "don't demand punishment"
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Offline beckyuga

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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2003, 12:45:00 PM »
Just curious....why staff and not staff trainees?
Becky
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight Atlanta 1982-84
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2003, 05:07:00 AM »
I think most would agree that we only have problems with jr or sr staff that still belive in straight.  No remorse from them at all!

Heck we all deserved it right????
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Offline Majiktrvls

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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2003, 08:49:00 AM »
On 2003-01-31 02:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think most would agree that we only have problems with jr or sr staff that still belive in straight.  No remorse from them at all!
There have been several former Staff members on this site who have previously apologized to any and all for the misdeeds that they were involved in towards the various groups. Some of these persons still are haunted with the remorse of the happenings in group, some are still dealing with the nightmares of every word and action that they took. Please reread former posts before catagorizing and placing judgement on ALL former staff members.
Heck we all deserved it right????
I don't think you will find one individual on here that believes that we all deserved the treatment that we recieved. If they believe that, they are most likely not to be found here. Either that, or they are in closets silently watching the goings on, I have yet to hear anyone express that sentiment.



"
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2003, 05:02:00 PM »

On 2003-01-31 05:49:00, Majiktrvls wrote:I don't think you will find one individual on here that believes that we all deserved the treatment that we recieved. If they believe that, they are most likely not to be found here. Either that, or they are in closets silently watching the goings on, I have yet to hear anyone express that sentiment.




No, I don't think anyone who regularly posts here would say that. However, Brian Seeber used to post to a forum like this when it was hosted on another site (coolbbs or ezboards something). Now, he'll lie right to your face today, if you ask him, and tell you that he doesn't approve of any kind of child abuse. Then he'll go back in to the building and perform his daily routine as executive director of SAFE. In all likelyhood, he believes what he's saying or at least believes in the justification for lying just a little to cover those things which outsiders just wouldn't understand.



He's an extreme case, of course. But, with rare exception, every one of us has played a part in the abuse. Did you ever confront someone in group? How do you know that it wasn't that very confrontation that was the final straw? Were you an oldcomer? Then you actually commited the crime of false imprisonment each night when you locked yourself and your nukes into the room and all day when you took part in preventing anyone from just walking away at will.



Worse yet? Did you ever turn yourself in for something, confess some thought or past deed that was not in your own best interest to confess? Did you motivate till and after your joints hurt? Sit bolt upright despite the painful ache in your back? Then you did it to yourself as well. That's one of the more fucked up aspects of thought reform. You advance one square closer to the door by demonstrating the ability and willingness to inflict the abuse on yourself and others.



Where does one draw the line? It's a far stickier question than you might at first think, eh? And this is where I fall back on one of those concepts I learned from the Presby school and church I attended as a kid. "Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord." Some people interpret that to mean "Don't worry, you'll get yours!" Ok, if that gives you some satisfaction then take it where you can get it. But that's not how I was taught. I was taught to interpret that line of script as a legitimate cop out from the obligation to punish anyone for anything.



I'm really not interested in punishing anyone for past deeds. I just want to seperate the current criminals from their tax funding and shed some light on what they do so as to remove the mantle of legitimacy that lets them continue to get away with it.



Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2003, 10:22:00 PM »
I was talking about principles in the programs be it jr. sr. or exc staff.  I was not refering to people here on this site.

We all went through alot, I realize that.  The problem I have is dealing with old staff, "again not here" when I talk with them.  They still believe we deserved it.

Best wishes to all...............
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2003, 10:31:00 PM »
I agree with you Ginger however I feel it is a civic duty to explain what happened and let society as a whole judge the princiles involved. "REMEMBER THE PRINCIPLES STILL EFFECT OUR LIVES"  just read the paper.  What do you think about the new Bush voucher program for treatment.  The very people that created Straight are still influncing "OUR" govenrment and "US".  I'm worried about "now" much more than the past.  The situation is still "Current".  That's what frustrates me.  The public regardless of all the wonderful work that has been done by Wes and Ginger and many more still don't know the truth.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2003, 02:01:00 AM »
Judgement is something that belongs to the Lord. We are not really supposed to go around "judging". If we truly left judgment in the Lord's hands, and didn't seek our own revenge, we would get the most perfect form of vengeance, namely God's. Only God is Just when He judges.

On one level, it is our right and duty, to speak out against things that we know are wrong, and harmful. But, in my view, we get in trouble when we seek revenge, or give into a vengeful mindset.

Do I understand the mindset? Yes I do. But I also know that you can't fight what is vile with a different form of vileness. It doesn't produce good results. It continues that legacy of darkness.

I think it is beneficial to abstain from vengeance, because vengeance does belong to God. If we seek to avenge ourselves, we are violating God's law in that.

Do we don the mantle of passivity because we aren't vengeful. NO. We speak the truth in love. We rescue those who've been plunged into a hell of the mind and body. We speak freely. We don't have to vent to be right. WE are right! There is power in being right. There is power in overcoming the lies.

Nobody ever has to agree with you for you to know that you are right about something. Nobody can invalidate what you know is true. They can kill your body. They can harm your mind, but they CAN'T stop you if you are right and you know it. Don't fear them because they fear you if you are right and you're actions prove them to be liars.

If you want to prove a point, be righteous. If you want to change things, do it. What are you waiting for?
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Offline ClayL

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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2003, 12:50:00 PM »
I really do not know enough about Bush's idea about treatment vouchers. I think he did make a good policy move here though. In effect he said, drug users should not be treated as criminals, but as people with an issue we can deal with. Now, given our guberments (who says that?) over-weaning desire to appear TOUGH, I have not a doubt they will institute some stupid bone head plan. When, after creating many others like ourselves, the idiots who cannot hold jobs in the corporate sector, will begin to realize what they are doing is not working. Then, they can go back to being tough on crime or confronting the issue that most of the crime is performed by only 20% of the inmates and the rest are there because they have issues they'd most likely be willing to deal with given a chance. As for the preditors, the 20% commiting most of the crimes, lock them up and throw away the key. Perhaps on a habitable island, left with the things necessary to survive and, perhaps, even build an economy.

Never happen though, the drug "war" is to good for the gov't. Spend billions of taxpayer dollars on something that will never work, and look tough while doing it, but these wimps will never make the unpopular but correct decisions it will take to clean up the drug "policy" mess. What I really love is using this "war" to justify all kinds of non-sense and to encroach on my ever decreasing right of privacy and freedom from gov't snooping. Hell Tom, the jack ass, Daschle has in a bill of his has a provision that states: If I throw a party on my farm and someone gets caught selling, in possession of or using some controlled substance, I get to got to federal prision for 20 years. I found that tidbit on http://www.foxnews.com yesterday. Cool, huh?

Perhaps the next generation won't sell out like the 60's assholes that are now in office(One wonder's how many of them dropped acid at Grateful Dead shows). Doubt it, but one can hope.

How's that for political meandering?

Clay

PS I think I finally got the grammar corrected.
-GEEZ

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-02-01 09:59 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-02-01 10:02 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2003, 09:51:00 AM »
I agree with you. The line between vengence and rightiousness is a fine one. It can make or break you.

I am not here to judge, However I do want the story told and slowly publc awareness is being lifed by all that are active in this pursuit including me.

Take care.....
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2003, 02:08:00 PM »
This came in on a list just now:


I don't have the link, but in The Washington Spectator 11/15/02, Helen Sharpe had an article on "faith-based initiative." Evidently, Pat Roberson received a half-million dollar grant for something called Operation Blessing International, or OBI, an organization that supposedly distributes humanitarian in Africa. She cites the Virginian-Pilot, stating that OBI money (at least prior to the grant) was going to Roberson's diamond mining venture.   Ray


To err is human. But to really foul things up requires government funding.


As to support for current policy, it goes way deeper and broader than most people think. Here's an excellent (long) essay on how that all works.


Narco-Dollars for Beginners "How the Money Works"
in the Illicit Drug Trade
Part I in a Series
By Catherine Austin Fitts


On another point, judgement and vengence are two entirely different things. Judgement is thought or understanding. Vengence is action.

There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2003, 10:00:00 PM »
I like the way you put that.  There is a very fine line between acountability and abuse.  Just stick with the facts.  However if you ever meet face to face with your attacker in a public venue.  You may change you mind about vengence.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2003, 10:08:00 PM »
It's the part where they act like we deserved it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2003, 04:50:00 AM »
i was in the program for about 2 years and never went along with any of it. like i hear people say, all  these web sites do bring back alot of memories. any ways, i don't think the thing is about being a victim or who the biggest victim is or whatever, that just makes you weak i feel. in all the time i was there i never opened up because i could not open up. i knew the thing was full of shit and i ain't no sell out no way no how. i'll never be a hipocrit either for that matter. i have some contempt, ( i'm not saying i'm right, but it's how i feel) to people who could fuck with me while i was not going along with the bull shit there. but i believe in karma with all my heart, so don't worry to much about it. i learned a whole lot of shit about myself there even though i never got past the 3rd level, and learned alot about people in general, wich i think was amazing. ther is a book called "the manipulated mind" by denise winn that is about brainwashing techneques used by the koreans that sounds like they're talking about straight. by not going along with the whole program there for so long i feel that i gained a whole lot of strength and determination that has helped me in my life. but it is cool to hear all the fucked up feelings people have about the place because that is a part of my life i can not share with anyone else. anyway thanks for listening............. peace
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