Author Topic: Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re  (Read 5458 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 09:41:00 PM »
J.W., is that you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 09:46:00 PM »
Yep, sure is....ASSHOLE.  :flame:  :wave:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2006, 02:40:00 AM »
i was newcomers with fred collins....on my 2nd "program".....i think he had been in a few days before i got started over on 5th phase,or he came in after i got started over...not sure anymore.....we were at john's house with carl p.! do you remember me fred? i never thought you had a problem....i remember saying who the f- decided he needed to be in here?...he wasn't anything like the rest of us in there....but what could you say?wierd stuff happened in there all the time...i remember carl confronting him hard....
trying to get fred to admit to b.s.stuff....when we came up to V.a....fred made 2nd phase and vanished....i hate to say it,but i didn't notice him gone till his brother was talking to me about it......i know at the time,and probably there after george was in a rock and a hard place.....
i always felt bad for george....that must've been tough on him....hey fred,if you read this,hi!...
havn't seen you for a long time!...do you remember me?....please write me privatly...oh,
and say hi to your brother too....i'm glad that the place didn't ruin your life like it touched mine.....by the way,he can write me too if he wants....hippie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2006, 03:09:00 AM »
still-a-hippie,

'ey man you better take off the glasses and look around some...I mean you aint all bad or nothin' but you are missin' the general gist of what's happenin'.  Justice requires you not allow yourself to be used as a tool...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2006, 08:45:00 AM »
what did he do wrong, pirate..i must say that i'm a bit perplexed by your insinuation here. please explain when ya get a chance...frnk.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 12:18:00 PM »
Yeah, me too. BTW, that post from Fred was over half a year ago. He drops in once in awhile, but I don't know that he'll find your message. I have a couple of ideas to track him down, though, if you really want to get hold of him.

We will make mistakes. Learning from them doesn't make us heros. It only gives us a passing grade on the evolutionary scale.
http://fornits.com/wwf/' target='_new'>Antigen

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2006, 06:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-06 14:53:00, Psycho6 wrote:

"Fred Collins was a pussy at the time, and probably still is... although he may be a rich pussy. I remember his skinny ass in the program and he did/caused more harm to those of us inside than good.
"


Wow, how does somebody stay this brainwashed for this long? Psycho indeed!

Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom.  It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave.  
-- William Pitt, 1763

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2006, 08:37:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-07 05:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"what did he do wrong, pirate..i must say that i'm a bit perplexed by your insinuation here. please explain when ya get a chance...frnk."


I don't know...but it's just a little weird to me the way he brags about converting troubled newcomers into sucsessful phasers. Gives me the creeps. Like he's almost pro-$tr8.  He tried to go on staff up in Boston 3 years after he graduated.  He doesn't seem to think that anything about the program was inherently wrong.  He just had personal differences with some of the staff and phasers.  I'm not sure he gets it.  These are a few of my concerns, concernin' Hippie.

Hip-

I aint tryin' to hurt ya man, but I hope your eyes are open.  I hope ya really see the criminality of $tr8 inc.

Peace 'n' strength 'n' such...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2006, 08:37:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-07 05:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"what did he do wrong, pirate..i must say that i'm a bit perplexed by your insinuation here. please explain when ya get a chance...frnk."


I don't know...but it's just a little weird to me the way he brags about converting troubled newcomers into sucsessful phasers. Gives me the creeps. Like he's almost pro-$tr8.  He tried to go on staff up in Boston 3 years after he graduated.  He doesn't seem to think that anything about the program was inherently wrong.  He just had personal differences with some of the staff and phasers.  I'm not sure he gets it.  These are a few of my concerns, concernin' Hippie.

Hip-

I aint tryin' to hurt ya man, but I hope your eyes are open.  I hope ya really see the criminality of $tr8 inc.

Peace 'n' strength 'n' such...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline teachback

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2006, 08:58:00 PM »
I think that he looks/looked at it this way- he was making a difference between being just another abusive oldcomer or not being one. Those were tough times, pirate.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2006, 09:08:00 PM »
Yeah.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-06 18:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yep, sure is....ASSHOLE.  :flame:  :wave: "


Hey no kidding. How's your little brother?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2006, 01:05:00 PM »
That's about how I take it. And I played it sort of the same way. I didn't understand what was going on around me most of the time. It just wasn't any of my business if others decided to fight or comply, whether they really believed or were bullshitting. But when I had newcomers, I tried hard to make home life as comfortable and dignified as I could get away with. "leave the program in the building" (leave the kid alone and let her sleep, damn it! or no fuckin' way am I gonna eat a good meal and make this girl watch while she stuffs down another PBJ') I'm not sure how or why I got away with it, maybe it's just that spooky kid quality you must have noted the one time we met. Who the fuck knows.

But there were only two times I can remember when I dared take the chance of explicitly stating wtf I was trying to do. One time I had a newcomer who was over 18. I just asked her why in the world she stayed when she could walk out the door any time she pleased. I told her I would if I were 18. She said she had no place to go, her Dad wouldn't take her back home. I said but... you're 18! You can get a job, rent an appartment, do whatever you want! I had tried 3 times already to strike out on my own as a minor. Shari dissapeared shortly thereafter. I like to suppose that her dad wised up and took her home. But I'll never know unless she looks me up.

The other time was when Holly R****** got brought back from splitting. They worked her over hard and they broke her that week. She had always been resillient, full of humor. Like that cockroach story Bob told just recently? That's the kind of thing Holly would do, laughing all the way to the floor. But this time was different. Just just fucking gave up, seemed almost catatonic. At home, she wouldn't brush her teeth. That worried me a lot. She had such a beautiful smile and I remembered what a pain she had always been about it. Didn't matter if we were running late or anything else, she had always insisted on taking her time, taking care of her teeth. I did NOT resent her for it, but I'm sure I acted as if I did. It was sort of a rule.

Well on this night, Holly hadn't brushed her teeth in days (I don't think she was eating, either, she was just not doing or responding to anything, she was wrecked!) The other oldcomer was worried about getting into trouble. I sort of arranged it so that I'd be alone in the bathroom w/ Holly so we could talk. I just told her look, just say wtf they want to hear. We'll all get out one way or another and pretty soon, and you'll still have your teeth so take care of them. I also told her that if she ever turned me in for saying that I'd hunt her down and make her pay. She never did. She brushed her teeth.

Looking back, I probably did contribute to fucking her up just that one little degree more. But I was a 17yo kid who'd been living in the Twilight Zone for years already. I've always tried to be a decent human being. I never wanted anybody to buy into that bullshit. I just tried to soften the blow wherever I could w/o getting creamed myself in the process.

In retrospect, I'm sorry I didn't hang around and help close that place down. But, then again, I'm not sure it would have done any good or that I would have been able to handle dancing w/ that draggon w/o completely losing my mind. I ran away and didn't look back for a number of years because I needed to for my own sanity.

I think there are only the rare few Super Straightlings who believe to this day that the Program was good and we all who rejected it must be crazy. Most of us are just a lot more decent than that.

Men had better be without education than be educated by their rulers.

--Thomas Hodgskin

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2006, 08:46:00 PM »
at first i was like huh?...but then i realised how
it could be taken 2 different ways....no problem
pirate....i was just trying to explain how i wasn't a shitty oldcomer...i had no choice in the matter.....but i made a decision to treat my newc's way different than i was treated....and i feel that by defying jim sailor or whoever,without saying shit to my newc's,they knew i was thier friend in a fucked up place...without telling them{cause i would've been in deep trouble}anything,they saw for the first time,good progress reports about thier progress{2 of my newc's were "career" newc's}not the same kiss ass shit that they got from the other oldcomers they had had...when we got home,we did all the manditory shit as quickly as possible,then for them,as well as me,it was an
silent agreement to forget the program as much as possible.....we played all kinds of games...talked about all kinds of stuff....i really knew them well.....they're like brothers to me.....and they still are today.....!again,i wasn't your standard oldcomer....i just wanted to get through hell as quickly as possible and i was basically protecting them from more harmful shit ,pirate....in my own way....shit,one of them came to my rescue on that other posting.....you see,i got him off first phase,so he could make up his own mind what to do from there....he left 3 months later....when he did,it was because dean made fun of his hearing problem....then called on everyone to imitate his speach impediment!he called me after he left and asked if i could come out to see him.....i went out there to see him
and kept in touch with him too after str8.....we
went to dead shows together etc etc....hippie
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Fred Collins, A Little History (Thanks for trying for the re
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2006, 09:02:00 PM »
I understand about bein' cool to newcomers...I seen where the cat stood up for ya 'n' all...I'm glad you weren't one of the assholes in there.  

To me $tr8 is a criminal organization whose injustices against minors are too numerous to count.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.