Dear ISACCORP,

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-02 20:34:00, Antigen wrote:

"No, I was implying that the kids at Whitmore and curse a lot and are not polite, Ken Kay is frequently dishonest and you talk a lot of shit.

The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstitions of the Christian religion.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton

"

The kids at Whitmore are not polite?  Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors.  How can you say nasty things about survivors.  And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit?  All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry:

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-03 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:


The kids at Whitmore are not polite?  Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors.  How can you say nasty things about survivors.  And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit?  All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry: "

You must have me confused w/ someone else. I've never given cart blanch to anyone just because they've had a rough time. If you look around these forums (and I have a feeling you've spent a good deal of time studying them) you know that program survivors are quite often pretty foul mouthed and impolite.

Facts is facts. You still talk way too much shit to be lecturing Karen about it.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

[Anonymous]

***The kids at Whitmore are not polite? Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors. How can you say nasty things about survivors.

These kids are not yet 'survivors'. I believe she was referring to the kids who are still incarcerated and under Whitmore's influence. Have you read that forum?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-03 00:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-04-02 20:14:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-04-02 17:39:00, Anonymous wrote:



"ISAC may be hard to navigate, but the way I found it was by doing a Google search for the facility I wanted to know about.  It took me right to the page for that facility.  I think this would be the most common way people find the site.  So, I don't think a parent will necessarily be frustrated in trying to find info about a facility if it's up on ISAC.  Sure, it could be a better site, but to criticize someone's heartfelt and effective volunteer work in such a crude manner is just tacky."

Hmmmm yes, the ISAC group definitely looks like its hearts are filling over with good will. What's tacky are these brainless attempts to cover that bunch of morons."

Um, you're calling what I said "brainless" but you're the one who can't figure out how to use a reasonably uncomplicated website."

This is about not being ABLE to navigate the website. It's about their site not being copy/paste friendly and user-friendly to the masses. If I click a link, and it doesn't load a page, and instead tells me there were errors, is that really about the person clicking that links intelligence level? Not everyone (which is who we want to be able to read those articles and reports) is getting a chance to spread the word of warning about these programs! If they can?t, how is this productive? Why use PDF files anyway? It requires Acrobat (a newer version) to read it, and not everyone has that version on their computer, not to mention it?s a big download, and few people actually know how to do that stuff in the first place. My question/criticism is; why do they make it impossible to distribute important information via the internet?

And please, the name-calling you are stooping to is just silly. Let's focus on the solutions here, not pointing fingers and irrelevant insults.

[Antigen]

IMHO, the ISAC site is much, much improved over the last year or two. Used to be very difficult to find what you're looking for and there wasn't much of any documentation available to back some of the reports. The docs existed, but you'd have to contact somebody there to get confirmation before you could use it for anything. That's getting better.

Are there broken links? Probably. If you want to do a good deed, make up a list of them (including the page urls in which you find them) and send that list to Shelby so she can fix them. Here's the contact page:
http://isaccorp.org/contact.html
and the 'report a broken link' link worked just fine just now when I clicked it.

PDFs are a pain in the butt. But I don't know how much choice they have. Sometimes, that's all you get. And if it's a graphic pdf (images of pages instead of text) there's really not much you can do to improve on that. Given a choice, I much prefer plain text or html. Why not ask about that.

As far as the no copy gadget, I agree, that's just inconvenient and I don't know of a good reason to do it. Ask. Maybe it'll go away too if you just ask.

But what's the point of coming over here and going at it so in such a hostile way?

PLEASE FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS YOUR ARTICLES AND RESEARCH!!!!!!

FUCK!!!!!!!

kthx  

You're tellin' me this was just a friendly bit of constructive criticizm?

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-03 11:16:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-04-03 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:



The kids at Whitmore are not polite?  Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors.  How can you say nasty things about survivors.  And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit?  All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry: "

You must have me confused w/ someone else. I've never given cart blanch to anyone just because they've had a rough time. If you look around these forums (and I have a feeling you've spent a good deal of time studying them) you know that program survivors are quite often pretty foul mouthed and impolite.



Facts is facts. You still talk way too much shit to be lecturing Karen about it.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

"

Coming from the chief shit talker, high atop Mount MONESSEN, I'll take that as a compliment.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-03 11:47:00, Antigen wrote:

"IMHO, the ISAC site is much, much improved over the last year or two. Used to be very difficult to find what you're looking for and there wasn't much of any documentation available to back some of the reports. The docs existed, but you'd have to contact somebody there to get confirmation before you could use it for anything. That's getting better.



Are there broken links? Probably. If you want to do a good deed, make up a list of them (including the page urls in which you find them) and send that list to Shelby so she can fix them. Here's the contact page:

http://isaccorp.org/contact.html

and the 'report a broken link' link worked just fine just now when I clicked it.



PDFs are a pain in the butt. But I don't know how much choice they have. Sometimes, that's all you get. And if it's a graphic pdf (images of pages instead of text) there's really not much you can do to improve on that. Given a choice, I much prefer plain text or html. Why not ask about that.



As far as the no copy gadget, I agree, that's just inconvenient and I don't know of a good reason to do it. Ask. Maybe it'll go away too if you just ask.



But what's the point of coming over here and going at it so in such a hostile way?

PLEASE FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS YOUR ARTICLES AND RESEARCH!!!!!!



FUCK!!!!!!!



kthx  

You're tellin' me this was just a friendly bit of constructive criticizm?

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

"

Yes, even by my standard, this is a little too blunt.  We finally agree on something Queen Warbis.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-03 12:12:00, Anonymous wrote:


Yes, even by my standard, this is a little too blunt.  We finally agree on something Queen Warbis."

Beyond blunt. It's actually a little inaccurate. Most people can access what they're looking for. Most readers probably never try to copy by right-clicking. And I don't think any of the problems w/ the site are either major or intentional. There were major problems w/ it early on. But most of them have been resolved already.

The biggest 'problem' I see w/ it now is that there's not more of it. Of the thousands of programs out there, they list only a couple of dozen. But then, there's a significant difference between a site like Fornits and one like ISAC. All I do is provide space where anyone can say whatever they want/dare to say. I don't check facts or IDs. Anyone who needs substantiation of anything on this site has got to do their own homework. And they frequently do. Anyone who wants to beat that info out of someone who's unwilling to give it has got to go through a properly burdonsome litigation process. So there's far more info here, but of a much lower quality or value.

ISAC, otoh, takes statements from people who are willing to back them w/ their real names. That takes time and effort. I wish more people who post their stories here would make a statement to ISAC. But I also understand a lot of reasons why one wouldn't want to do that.

Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.

http://www.whitecloud.com/fight_vs_totalitarianism.htm' target='_new'>Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)

[Anonymous]

Ginger, you're right about that too, but it takes $$$.  I wonder if Marti would be willing to give back the money she took from ISAC?  That might help them in further developing their site.  But, alas, she probably used it for voice lessons.  I remember she sounded like Victor Buono :wink:

[Antigen]

That's a new one on me. I guess that goes to credit the character of the folks at ISAC. If they were big shit talkers, I suppoe we'd all know what you're talking about.

Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
--  Chuck Gauran

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-03 16:03:00, Antigen wrote:

"That's a new one on me. I guess that goes to credit the character of the folks at ISAC. If they were big shit talkers, I suppoe we'd all know what you're talking about.

Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
--  Chuck Gauran

"

Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again!  I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please.  Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge  :eek:

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-03 16:16:00, Anonymous wrote:




Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again!  I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please.  Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge  :eek: "

I'm not being the least bit snide here when I say I think you're seriously misinformed. Or maybe I'm just that far out of the loop that I'm the only one who doesn't know. But I seriously hope you'll back off of the gossip circuit for awhile and put on your logical, pragmatic engineering thinking cap and reassess this whole situation.

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

[Anonymous]

.  :wave:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-03 16:19:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-04-03 16:16:00, Anonymous wrote:






Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again!  I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please.  Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge  ::argue::

[Anonymous]

Oh, and by the way, you keep giving me "annoy" pop-ups and I'll just keep changing servers.  I've got a million of them  :smokin: