Author Topic: Parents, please consider this  (Read 21606 times)

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Offline Antigen

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Parents, please consider this
« Reply #105 on: April 22, 2005, 11:58:00 PM »
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On 2005-04-22 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"come on you people!!!!!!!!  Talking about chronic use of pot?  Hello?  It's illegal and habit forming.  And you wonder why parents send their kids to programs?!!!  You need to accept some of the responsibility yourselves, and stop placing blame on your parents.  If they hadn't cared and loved you, they wouldn't have been willing to spend the 30 to 60K a year, they could have just kicked you out of their house."


Based solely on that statement, I'm guessing you love law-n-order more than your own blood. Spend 30 - 60k to make your kids conform to senseless laws? Even my WWII leatherneck dad eventually saw the nonsense of that!

If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #106 on: April 23, 2005, 12:11:00 AM »
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On 2005-04-22 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

This is completely ridiculous. Are you suggesting parents without the wherewithal to send their children to programs, don't love them as much? How do you think people who can't afford to send their kid (most of america) deal with 'unruly' teens?


No kidding! I see kids around here who's parents would be perfect Program prospects, except that they're living in section 8 housing. Because the parents are over controling, paranoid and vindictive, the kids get off to a rough start. But the families, for better or worse, stay together. Mostly, it seems to be for the better.

Instead of giving money to fund colleges to promote learning, why don't they pass a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would have the smartest race of people on earth.
--Will Rogers

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2005, 12:16:00 AM »
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On 2005-04-22 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

Unless you have walked in my shoes, keep your mouth shut.


Again, we have. Don't be so damned sanctimonious!

Vain are the thousand creeds that move men's hearts, unutterably vain, worthless as wither'd weeds.
--Emily Bronte

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2005, 12:20:00 AM »
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On 2005-04-22 18:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"that is so righteous of you.  I see that you did well for yourself.  Cursing a mom who loves her child.  I pity you."


You suffering and martyrdome do not translate into benefit to your child. Sorry, I know you were only following the beliefs you were taught. Ah, the lies my teacher told me. It's just not true. You could have paid twice as much, fostered other Program children in your home, shuttled them back and forth every day (weekends included) and spent your "spare" time doing fundraisers and it still wouldn't have translated into helping your child. Just ask any Straight parent who isn't spewing program dogma like the Gospel truth to this day.  :roll:

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2005, 07:25:00 AM »
Thank you so much for your post to parents - we always push the licensed and approved programs and as well ask parents to please consider the risk factor of sending a child out of state.  I would love to post your piece on our website it is a mess now (actually being redone) as PFRR is adement about licensed programs at the very least and we push LRE (Least Restrictive Enviornment) as only kids who really need and can benefit from a short term Theraputic Residential School should enter in.  I also being a parent of a former residential school student in MA wrote a piece that is on my site I would like to share - please email me though at http://www.pfrr.org/Letter-child-resid.html

Produced by Parents for Residential Reform, a project of the Federation for Children with Special Needs
 Copyright© 2004
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Offline Perrigaud

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« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2005, 09:49:00 AM »
Sleep through the abuse? Me...what abuse? At CASA? Didn't see it happen. Heard of it but yeah I slept through it.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #111 on: April 23, 2005, 01:55:00 PM »
Andrea, if you had sent that letter to all the staff at a Synanon based program, they would all have had a good laugh. "Look at this! This crazy bitch thinks her kid's getting a steak and cheese sandwich!  :rofl: " and then they would have used the details to belittle and demoralize your daughter. All the while, the family rep or whatever would be telling you whatever you wanted to hear.

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On 2005-04-23 04:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

we always push the licensed and approved programs


Which programs would those be? I thought you said you're not an edcon?

I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #112 on: April 23, 2005, 01:58:00 PM »
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On 2005-04-23 06:49:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Sleep through the abuse? Me...what abuse? At CASA? Didn't see it happen. Heard of it but yeah I slept through it. "


So what is the point of saying, over and over again, that you didn't see any abuse? Based on others' reports about Casa, I can't imagine anybody spending any time there and not veiwing it as an abusive environment. Unless, of course, you just blame the victims.

If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
--Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2005, 02:07:00 PM »
I am not an Ed Consultant nor will I ever be.  I know where you are coming from laughing and such but you see this letter is used as a training tool here in MA for all staff especially front line staff, I don't know what it is with you but you are so critical it seems - I am on the Kids and the Parents side.  I don't promote residential schools, I promote LRE, and work in a PTI so frankly I am not sure why you want to pick fights with people, if you are looking to me for an argument I have bigger fish to fry and couldn't be bothered.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #114 on: April 23, 2005, 02:11:00 PM »
Ya know I just re read your post - when a Parent calls PFRR and asks about programs, where to send children etc., we inform them when a program is not licensed, we also educate them on their rights and their children's rights.  We do not promote programs, we do not help choose them either.  We let them know if a program is licensed or not, how to get information on recent abuse or neglect reports through the licensing agencies, and connect them with other parents through our list serves (not parents the programs pick for them to talk to).  I see where you were going with this and no I am not an ED Con and we do not charge for our information and trainings.  We are a parent run and parent employed or even former consumer employed in some cases agency in MA......Have a nice weekend!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #115 on: April 23, 2005, 02:41:00 PM »
Andrea, you said you "push licensed and approved programs". I take that to mean that you push licensed and approved programs. I'm really not looking for a fight. I just wanted to know which programs you push.  

My response to your parents letter is valid, I think. It's just incredibly niave to think that people who view thought reform techniques as valid therapy will be influence by a letter like that. "Aw, shucks! this mother really likes her kid. I guess we'd better jettison all of our beliefs about how to straighten out a wayward teen and do it her way." Pleeeeaaaaze!

And that is consistent w/ some statements I found in your document titled "Things to Remember when Bringing your Child Home for Holidays, School Vacations, and Weekend Visits from Residential or Group Home Care"
http://www.pfrr.org/FS-BringChildHome.htm

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Ask about the policy on children/adolescents from the program contacting each other during the period of time they are home as some programs do not recommend or allow this for very good safety reasons.  Some kids, especially adolescents, may have a history of running away or other issues.  In addition, many kids can be easily manipulated or impulsive, so negative influences need to be curbed.  This is also reason why it might be harmful for your child/adolescent to contact friends that he/she previously acted out with. If programs do not allow peer contact they are always willing to explain why.

Sure, they're always willing to spend a little time to convince you to never, ever trust your child even to TALK to anyone not approved by the Program. I'm sure there are cases where this just makes sense, but those would be rare cases. In most cases, they just don't want the kids to have any reference or social proof about the Program that they can't control. It's not really that the kid is too dumb or mentally ill to communicate responsibly. It's that they're too smart to not see through the bullshit, unless someone's controling the dialogue.

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Some crucial questions to ask: does the program come up with a written plan for your child/adolescent for when he/she is home? (When appropriate your young person should have input in this document or plan.)   This can be in the form of a plan or a contract and should be worked on together with staff, parents, and child/adolescent.  Some of the following suggestions could be included such as:  check-in's, medication (if there is a problem with compliance with medication), return time, curfews at home, and so on.  Limits are crucial as well as consistency and collaboration with the program as the young person has to return to the program.  

Make sure the little bastard knows good and well that they're going back if they step out of line!

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Please remember when programs or facilities have a check in system it is not to invade privacy.  Instead, it is to keep the lines of communication open, and let the young person and yourself know that they are there for you.


Sometimes it is intended to invade privacy. Sometimes it's all about getting the kid to internalize group dependency. Why, if you let the kid just go home and not report back at intervals like a battered wife, they might get the dangerous notion that they could do ok for themselves w/o the Program. Can't have that! BTW, the Seed/Straight lingo for this was "dime therapy".

Andrea, all of this advice you're giving sounds very much like what Straight and The Seed told our parents. Of course, this could apply to perfectly legitimate needed therapy. But it can also be spun to legitimize unneccessary and abusive treatment.

With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer



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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #116 on: April 23, 2005, 02:57:00 PM »
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On 2005-04-22 20:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-04-22 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
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One major benefit that cannabis has over SSRIs and similar drugs is the total lack of any long term side effects.





But how can you be sure it is pure?  Unless, of course you grow it yourself. "




Well, unless you move to the west coast and find a very reliable medicinal provider, you can't. The penalties and bust-risk for growing even a couple of plants far outweigh those of getting it from some kid at a highly inflated price. Reversing that disparity would go a LONG way toward taking the crime, corruption and violence out of the MJ market.

"


Look, kiddies, Mary Jane is going to be "pure".  Regardless of what they told you in health class in Jr. High, no one is going to lace your weed with anything unless they're trying to sell you laced weed, and they're NOT going to blindside you with it.  PCP and other adulterants are sold as PCP, not as weed.  Drug dealers are in it for the money, and it doesn't make business sense to put an expensive adulterant on weed and try to pass it off as marijuana.  It just doesn't happen.  Back in the 70s--early 80s, there was some Mexican weed that had been sprayed with paraquat, but that was your friends in the DEA that were trying to eradicate it.  THAT shit was toxic to smoke, but you could look at your weed under a blacklight and see the discoloration the paraquat created.  Avoid that shit entirely by buying domestically grown weed, which is generally of higher quality anyway.

As far as Mary Warner being addictive--bullshit.  Habit forming, maybe, but so are lots of things, like excercise, TV viewing, church attendance, and wearingt comfortable shoes.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2005, 03:12:00 PM »
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On 2005-04-23 10:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Andrea, if you had sent that letter to all the staff at a Synanon based program, they would all have had a good laugh. "Look at this! This crazy bitch thinks her kid's getting a steak and cheese sandwich!  :rofl: " and then they would have used the details to belittle and demoralize your daughter. All the while, the family rep or whatever would be telling you whatever you wanted to hear."


Yep, exactly what I thought after reading the letter. The letter would just end up making things worse in the end, at least if you ended up at a facility like the shit hole I went to (WWASP).

This is not a personal attack on the author of the letter, just the nature of the beast.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
Funny how people get addicted to being selfrightous and pointing out shit to get worked up about, or eating icecream, or watching TV *like good ole oprah and dr phil!* or going to church...

And fast food, or SUVs, or chocolate, or what EVER...  ::boohoo::

Whats the fucking difference between an addiction and something you just like to do, hmm?

"Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)

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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #119 on: April 23, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
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On 2005-04-23 12:27:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


Whats the fucking difference between an addiction and something you just like to do, hmm


I would consider an addiction to be a reliance on a substance to maintain bodily homeostasis, i.e., drugs such as heroin that create a physical debilitation if withdrawn from the user's body chemistry.  Anything other than physical illness is just a "jones" (intense craving or desire) and a human being is evolved enough for it's wants not to hurt it.
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