Parents, please consider this

[Anonymous]

Timoleca,
Do you believe EVERYTHING about the seminars is bad? Do you think someone who advocates for trying a seminar outside the program thinks the entire thing is solid and foolproof? I think it has its good points and bad points. Do oyu believe that if the seminars were improved upon in the areas that are unsuccessful that that woudl still not work and they woudl still be inefective?
Amanda

[Anonymous]

Amanada, how much do you know about these seminars? Do you know where they come from, how they were started, and why? Do you know where the program came from, and how it was started?

If not, do some research. The program is a mix between North Korean brainwashing techniques, the Synanon method, EST, and Lifespring, of course. Synanon, EST, and Lifespring are cults, like The Program.

There's nothing about the program that is positive or helpful. The only people who believe there is are people who have accepted WWASP's POV, people who are already brainwashed enough to believe that what they've seen and experiences was not only deserved, but needed. And that's wrong.

PS: about the smoking pot to deal with PTSD issue-- marijuana is now accepted in the medical community as an extremely helpful method of treating and dealing with PTSD symptoms. It's not "running away" from the problem-- unless you also consider antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications as "running away". There are several clinical trials taking place right now about the use of marijuana in PTSD treatment (in the US, Europe, and Israel), and the results look good so far.

[BuzzKill]

//PS: about the smoking pot to deal with PTSD issue-- marijuana is now accepted in the medical community as an extremely helpful method of treating and dealing with PTSD symptoms. It's not "running away" from the problem-- unless you also consider antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications as "running away". There are several clinical trials taking place right now about the use of marijuana in PTSD treatment (in the US, Europe, and Israel), and the results look good so far.//

This does make sense.
I can remember once telling a H.S. teacher that sometimes a little apathy was a good thing.

As for withdrawal - if there were such a thing as withdrawal from marijuana I would surely have learned all about it back in the late 70's.
Such was not the case. I had no problems quitting at all. And bear in mind, I lived in a more or less constant fog of hemp smoke for most of the last part of that decade.

This is not to say I think smoking pot is a healthy thing to do. In fact I would encourage anyone partaking to stop. But I do believe the effect can be helpful for certain problems and I do agree that medical use is well worth exploring. I also think it is probably far more benign than many of the legal pills popped for the same sorts of problems.

I do support the de-criminalization of marijuana; and I am opposed to mandatory drug testing in most situations.

[Anonymous]

Maybe you have not been in a situation where you fear for your childs life so much that you would do anything to save it :flame:

[001010]

In which case I would tell you that hysteria is no way to deal with anything. But especially the choices we make with our children.

We will make mistakes. Learning from them doesn't make us heros. It only gives us a passing grade on the evolutionary scale.
http://fornits.com/wwf/' target='_new'>Antigen

[Antigen]

Amanda, in your post to which I was refering, you were certainly talking about your "past" as the time before intake.

And yes, I do consider the seminars to be unhealthy, even if they're done to sell Herbalife or Amway or for some other reason. It's a scam. They do not contain any method or content to help people change their lives or thinking for the better. They don't even know going in what any of the participants problems are. The way they work is just exactly like an old tyme Bible revival only a little more sophisticated. They get the crowd worked up emotionally, caught in a double bind and then offer blessed salvation though servitude. It's not really salvation at all.

To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege.
--Leo Tolstoy, Russian revolutionary

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 10:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maybe you have not been in a situation where you fear for your childs life so much that you would do anything to save it :flame: "

No, you're mistaken. Damned near everyone who regularly posts here has been in that situation and/or taken the consequences of our parents having been taken advantage of while in that state of mind.

I understand completely why my parents were so terrified and why they put me in Straight. The little cosmic joke in all this is that, in my case, the Program was the cause of my outrageous behavior. Because I was sure they were going to put me in pretty soon and because I was terrified of being brainwashed like my older brothers and sister and all their friends, and because I had been effectively isolated from any sort of normal social ties, I took the desperate step of packing a backpack and hitchhiking out into the wild yonder.

Of course, looking back from a more mature perspective, I know there were many other options available to me. But I didn't know that then. I had been raised to believe that my options were limited to two; being a good little honorary Seedling or being a "druggie" as described over and over in outrageously exagerated terms at Open Meeting every Friday night for years.

When my daughter went crazy (and she really did go off the wall for awhile) I understood in more than an intellectual way why a parent would fall for the scam. The only reason my daughter didn't wind up in Broward County's boot camp system is because, based on my family's experience, I knew that would be a big mistake.

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

to anon,
I will search for some info on what you posted.

Now, to say there is absolutly Nada about the program that is useful or helpful is a bit extreme. Meeting the peopel I did in the program was a great thing for me. I am still best friends with those I am still in contact with, so there is one positive thing. I also have soem very fond memories of outings I had, groups I had, ect. there is some good. So saying there is absolutly no way to benefit from it or to have a good experience wiht it is wrong. Ginger may be right about makign the program a voluntary thing. Then if people cna benefit from it on their own, it would work better. But the things I say are not derived form program lingo or anything like that. i believe the things I believe because of my entire life expereince and because of after the program too. i dont feel as if I am in some cult mentality, as I do not feel the program is the end all answer to everyones problems. Life is certainly unfair. Sometimes punishments are not needed. The program is in great need of reform. But for the things that are helpful, perhaps they need more emphasis.

Trust me, I know my husband better than you. He DEFINETLY escapes his past. The problem wiht pot is
A) it is expensive. If he was using that as an antidepressant then there is never enough for him to use in a medical way. We cant spend 60 dollars a week on pot.
B) its effects last only so long and when hes n0ot high, then the depression and guilt come right back. it is only a temporary solution.
C) Its illegal. If he was caught, we could get our child taken away. Not to metnion he would go to jail. Now that all springs from prohibition and if it was legal it migh tbe a different deal.
The main issue is he dosnt ever actually deal with it on pot. He forgets about it for a time, but he never talks about it or anything. Occasionaly he will, but in a offhand sort of way. He has never been diagnosed with PTSD. Now the funny thing is he refuses to get on antidepressants because he dosnt want to be dependant on them, but pot is ok. It dosnt make alot of sense to me.

Personally I just think he likes to get high. Plus he makes pot sound as if it is the greatest thing int he entire world ever. It is alright, but it isnt something to talk about all fucking day long and it isnt something to lose your family or your freedom over.

If someday he can legally use THC as a method of treating PSTD if he is diagnosed wiht PSTD then good. I hope that happens. Personally i hope pot is legalized so this wouldnt even be as big a problem. But till then, it is risky and not very healthy to have around a baby.
Amanda

[Anonymous]

Buzzkill,
The withdrawl that has been identified is usually unnoticable and stuff. Jsut like wiht any substance you use on a daily basis when you stop it, you feel soem form of withdrawl. It may not be as extreme as say quitting smoking or drinking or anyhting like that. But it happens. MAybe it just wasnt noticible or extreme in oyur case. Unless you were smoking chronic every day, you probably wouldnt feel withdrawl.

Amanda

[Anonymous]

When I was refering to my past I was refering to the unhealthy way I was living before i improved my life, but i never said the program was the only thing that helped me improve my life. And my past is anytime before last year to me. Also has changed even since the program in my life. So my happiness and recovery extendes far beyond the program. I was still believeing and acting a certain way even in the program. I feel am always searching to improve myself and the searhing didnt stop once I got in the program.

Its true. A one size fits all seminar will not be effective for everyone. But one based soly on one issue might. It depends on the person and the situation. When you come to realizations about yourself, that comes form new information, form processign that information. and peopel are always changing their perspectives or at least should be. Just as I have changed mine after being on this forum. i dont thin k you all are hearing me. I think the progrma needs reform. I think the program isnt perfect.

One more thing. I hear alot of people on the forum blaming parents for everything. Im sure none of oyu are perfect parents. None of you. OYu can try your best and do your best, but even a parents best isnt perfect. and even a "perfect' parent may have a kid that grows up to be out of control. to blame everythign on a perent is silly. Im sure most the parents who send their kids to a program just want to help their kid be happy. There is not soem underlying wickedness that drives them to try to make their kids conform inot little mutant robots who spout out progam lingo. So stop trying to mkae all program paretns out to be bad guys. Soem are granted, but for the ones that are trying their best, leave them alone. I know what it is to love a child so much you want ot do anyhting you can to help them be happy. I dont care if my kid dresses in all black and listens to heavy metal or rap or whatever. As long as they are happy and not doing anything to harm their body then I am all for them finding out who they are and what they like. But it is not true that all kids grow out of being teenagers. My husband has a friend who is 28 now and still does drugs, drinks like a fish, and sells himself on the internet to men for extra money. Ive talked to his brother and he feels he will always be that way because he dosnt want help. He dosnt want to stop what hes doing. My good friend Ben is EXACTLY the same as he was in high school, only a little taller and skinnier. Actually all my old friends form high school are the same as they were back then. My husbands mom is still an alcoholic and in abusive relationships. All her friends are unhalthy gross people who are so horrible rude and unbelieveably out of control that we have banned them from our home. these are 40-50 year olds for heavnes sake! So no, not everyone does grow out of it. And sometimes Im sure parents dont want to wait and see if their kid will grow out of it or not.
Amanda

P.S. Antigen, did you forget your morning coffee? You seem a little agitated and not so willing to discuss anymore. Have i offended you?  OYu seem back to me as the enemy and as the ignorant brainwashed villan. I appreciate your input and would hope you appreciate mine as well. i feel I learned alot forom you. I hope you can consider my post and not get so caught up in the fact that I feel the program was a good tool for me. Ive told oyu again and again it is in tremendous need of reform. Have any ideas as to how to make it more effective? Is there a therapy method oyu have heard of that is more effective?

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 12:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

Now the funny thing is he refuses to get on antidepressants because he dosnt want to be dependant on them, but pot is ok. It dosnt make alot of sense to me.

One major benefit that cannabis has over SSRIs and similar drugs is the total lack of any long term side effects.

Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

[Anonymous]

One major benefit that cannabis has over SSRIs and similar drugs is the total lack of any long term side effects.

But how can you be sure it is pure?  Unless, of course you grow it yourself.

[Anonymous]

come on you people!!!!!!!!  Talking about chronic use of pot?  Hello?  It's illegal and habit forming.  And you wonder why parents send their kids to programs?!!!  You need to accept some of the responsibility yourselves, and stop placing blame on your parents.  If they hadn't cared and loved you, they wouldn't have been willing to spend the 30 to 60K a year, they could have just kicked you out of their house.

[Deborah]

***It's illegal and habit forming.

So isn't abuse. And I feel certain that some kids would've been better off if their parent had kicked them out. Fending for one's self expidites maturity. Being taken care of, told what to do every moment creates dependency. Never do for a person what they can do themselves, you create an invalid.

[BuzzKill]

//Unless you were smoking chronic every day, you probably wouldnt feel withdrawl.//

It was a daily thing for several years; and some days, all day.

Keep in mind, back then, it was dirt cheep, and while not officially legal - arrest for anything under an ounce was un heard of. Typically, the cops just stole your stash. The only time I ever saw anyone arrested was when they smarted off - ya know - back talked and said something stupid like, You can't do that, I know my rights!

Back then, they might talk rude to you, but if you kept your mouth shut & remained polite when required to say something; they just took the pot and beer and left you alone.

And back then, there was no such thing as mandatory drug testing. If you could fill out an application you could get a job; and if you came to work and did your job, and weren't a problem, you could keep the job. It didn't matter what you smoked after work.

The point being - Back then, Marijuana was a very commonly used drug; and the ill effect on people's lives practically non-existent.

Once they made it hard to get in from MX, it got expensive; So much so that far more dangerous drugs are cheaper; and then they passed the stricter laws, making even paraphnaila illegal; and the schools decided to have Zero tolerance; and drug testing became mandatory for most any job - and Now, using Marijuana is very likely to cause problems of a significant nature in the life of anyone who uses it.

But it does not cause any kind of withdrawal. A person might miss it - I called it nostalgia - but there are no physical symptoms at all to stopping even an every day habit.

Getting off coffee  - that's a different story!