A Message from a Sibling

[Anonymous]

you should get your head out of your ass, she was at court against her own family. Wheres the love and caring you speak of?

[Webmistress]

Opinions, people...it's just personal opinions...

[Antigen]

I don't know the situation you're talking about, but I went to court against my parents too. They had gotten a Straight friendly judge to extradict me from Georgia to Florida, and then fought over whether that meant I was in state custody or my parents. I had to give the judge some reasons why I should remain in state custody.

I didn't want to do this. I had to. I would have much prefered to handle this very private family matter privately. The trouble was that, given the chance, both of my parents had demonstrated their willingness to break the law in order to put me back in the Program. So I was just trying to retain my liberty till I turned of age and couldn't be compelled to go back. I wasn't mad at my parents at that time. I was afraid of them. I thought they'd gone completely nuts by this time. But I wasn't out to hurt them. It was self defense.

I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.

---Albert Camus

[Anonymous]

i have heard about kids not having a relationship with their families, but is this still going on?
Are there many of these instances?  I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents.  What did the parents do to deserve that?  Please help me out here....I am a parent myself, and I can't even think of not having my child in my life.  Are there many familes that don't see each other, and is it all Newton's doing?  What does he get out of all this?  I know I am asking alot of questions, but I really need to understand what is going on here.  I have heard about all this for years, but have  never really hear the true story.  Can anyone shed some light on this for me.

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-22 04:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents. What did the parents do to deserve that?

I think the most frequent, longstanding complaint about parents is that some of them never really get it. A lot of the kids who land up in these programs don't really have a problem to begin with. Their parents have the problem. And Virgil was a master at turning parents against their children. I was stunned that he was able to convince my father that I was a coke-head. It really cut deep. Then, many months later, when Dad saw me all brused up w/ black eyes accross the open meeting room, he apparently believed that I had attacked sombody and gotten hurt by someone defending themselves. That hurt a whole lot more than the broken nose.

Eventually, within a year after I came of age and got out, Dad and I were finally able to talk without going through Program ppl. Naturally, we fought some. But we got past that, figured out that we'd both failed in some ways and both been taken for a ride. He never, ever again threw up in my face those lies. So we got along just fine till the end of his days.

The rest of my family is a different story. I can't stand their company at all. They treat me like some kind of invalid. Sometimes it's subtle remarks, like that I sure am good at picking balanced meals for my kids or act surprised that I'm actually making a living, not a street hooker or was able to get myself from Florida to my dad's place in WV when he needed help when he was sick.

Sometimes, it's a lot more overt and hostile, like when they flat out refused to believe that I'd had anything to do with trippling the value of a property that my Dad left us. They took me for about $30k through pure democracy; the five of my brothers and sisters simply agreed and decreed that the agreement I'd had with my dad and which my sister had said she would honor was just crazyness because they thought that he and I were both a little daft.

When it comes right down to it, the only role for me in my family is that of some pitiable loser. I'm not used to being treated that way and I won't tolerate it. As much as I love those people and miss them, I've found it's just not worth the indignity.

You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!

--chongo

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2003-12-22 04:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i have heard about kids not having a relationship with their families, but is this still going on?

Are there many of these instances?  I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents.  What did the parents do to deserve that?  Please help me out here....I am a parent myself, and I can't even think of not having my child in my life.  Are there many familes that don't see each other, and is it all Newton's doing?  What does he get out of all this?  I know I am asking alot of questions, but I really need to understand what is going on here.  I have heard about all this for years, but have  never really hear the true story.  Can anyone shed some light on this for me."

I haven't talked to my dad in about 3 years, this time.  It's not MY choice.  He doesn't approve of how I live my life, so he has pretty much cut me out of his life.  I have a wonderful husband of 13 years, two great kids, one starting college in January and because I drink, he doesn't speak to me.  Unfortunately, he has also decided that my kids, HIS GRANDKIDS, need the same "tough love" and they haven't done ANYTHING.  Part of growing up and becoming an adult is to break away from parents.  When that starts to happen kids go a little nuts.  I went thru it with my older one and am going thru it with the younger now.  Yes, it's difficult...but we've hopefully raised our kids to be healthy, independent adults.  Part of that is having a different personality and a different way of life than your parents.  Newton taught my dad that if he didn't like what I was doing then he needed to cut off communication with me.  Now that I AM a parent....there is NOTHING MY KIDS COULD DO TO MAKE ME NOT SPEAK TO THEM FOR YEARS AT A TIME.  Sure, I get pissed at my kids, sometimes we don't talk for a day or two and I 'm sure that length of time will grow when they move out and REALLY start to figure out their own lives and who they are, but I would NEVER let it get to the point that my dad and other program parents have.  The whole "get honest" concept is about nothing but keeping control over the kids life.  I've said before that I felt like I lived life under a microscope because of the program.  Any time I made a mistake in my life, a HUGE deal was made out of it, the WHOLE FAMILY (including step-brother and sister from my dad marrying another program parent) was informed of whatever indescretion may have happened.  I WAS AN ADULT WITH KIDS OF MY OWN!!!!!!!!  I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO INFORM MY DADDY ABOUT EVERY MISTAKE I MADE.  According to Newton, I should have NO private life at all.....EVER.

The holidays these past years have been hard.  There are great parts of my dad, but Newton really reinforced the controlling nature of him and then it was all over.  Nothing I could do from then on was ever good enough.  Well, ya know what?  It's good enough for me, good enough for my kids and good enough for my husband.  Sorry, but Dad can go FUCK HIMSELF.  I have tried numerous times over the last couple of years.  Oh, and I'm his ONLY CHILD...there IS nobody else...just me.  My kids have written letters, made phone calls and gotten NO RESPONSE back.

You ask what have these parents done???  Put me in a corrupt, abusive prison like atmosphere for two years and then have perpetuated those "teachings" ever since.  But......in spite of all that.....I REALLY miss him sometimes.  It's STILL not my choice that we don't have contact, so maybe the question should be, what have the kids done to deserve this?

For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95

[Antigen]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ok, now ya'll have me thinking of my mom. And I thought of something that I think really sums up what the Program can do to an especially vulnerable parent.

Around 6 years after I got out of the program, I had been married for a couple of years and had two kids. My husband had always worked full time, I'd gone back and forth between babysitting at home and working part time jobs to help out with the cash flow. We were not affluent by any 1st world measure. But we were not exacly on the skids, either.

My mom wouldn't know anything about that, though, cause we rarely talked and she never visited. So my husband gets really sick. It was an autoimune problem where his body started attacking his kidneys and it was life threatening. The doctors said it was even money to go any way; remission, prolonged illness or death. I don't think I've ever felt so scared and alone in all my life than the first night he spent at the hospital.

So, what did I do? What would anyone do. I pulled out my phone book and started calling friends and family. When I got to my mom, she was very detached about the whole thing. She didn't really respond at all. And I thought to myself, well, she's always been a little frigid. What did I expect? And I let it go.

Next day, she calls me up and tells me to pack my bags, she's made arrangements for me to get the residential treatment I need and for care for my kids while I'm in there. Even offered to pay for college if I'd only get treatment.

It seems that, when I said kidney disorder, she heard hepatitis C contracted by heroin injection.

That's all there is in her world; druggies and perfect people. Most people are not perfect, they're druggies. But that's OK! Cause she's got the pattented, proven 100% effective cure for that root of all evil!

It's dangerous for me to be around her. I can't help myself. I let my guard down and start expecting a little motherly love and I always get hurt.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous]

"you should get your head out of your ass, she was at court against her own family. Wheres the love and caring you speak of?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is that all you've got against her?
Try to come up with a better arguement if you feel Jackie is evil or horrible but stop reaching for straws.
You are clearly the one with your head up your #@%! I also had to go to court to fight being returned to KIDS and this certainly included fighting my parents and their  demand to return me to Newton's Clutches.  Give me a break!

[Anonymous]

Jackie was in court against her family, but not for putting her in the program... she was there to support her brothers exwife.  She wanted to move to FL. with their daughter to be near the Newtons.  I think that is a bit different than what you were thinking.  Too bad the judge was such a wimp, and let her take their daughter away from grandparents, aunts, uncles, and most of all her father.  Just to be closer to Newton.  Actually, Jackie's family is very much against the Newtons.  I think that was why Newton wanted the child away from all of them  Typical Newton       tactics.

[Anonymous]

The way I see it Jackie was always kind to me in Kids. Nicer to me than most. Even when I was rebellious. She certainly was never mean to me.

Just doesn't seem like enough of a reason to be angry with or dislike someone...sure it's different than fighting your parents to get out of kids.  It also makes sense regardless that she would fight for custody of her own child?

It would make perfect sense based on all the claims of brainwashing, that she would want to remain close to the Newtons.

Our brains are all wired differently.  Some people found a way out after only a short time, others were more susceptible to the brainwashing. Let's remember who is really at fault to begin with. Who put her there? Who kept her there for so long that she probably doesn't know anything different?

The reality is one could argue that her family fought against her to prevent her custody of the child. One could argue that this is pretty standard for a judge to award custody to a mother over the father.

It is another sad story of families torn apart by this quack. Let's put the blame where it belongs and let's just hope for the sake of her kid, the family that she is estranged from, and for her that she finds some way out of there.

[Anonymous]

Actually, it wasn't her seeking custody of a child.  She was at court in support of Joel's exwife.  His wife wanted to move to Fl. to be near the Newton's, and Joel was fighting to keep his daughter here to be near him and his family.  In Fl. the only family she would have would be the Newton's.  Another account of Newton's ruining people's lives.  Let's remember just who the villian is here.  I hold no resentments towards anyone who was on staff when I was a newcomer....It took awhile, but now I realize we were all victims.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I saw my error after I posted. I misunderstood at first. I suppose that is different. I think the larger point is how tragic it is that families are torn apart by that place and by the Newtons, and how tragic it is that some people are just not capable of breaking away from them.

I agree with you completely.  It seems people seem to forget who is really at fault here and so easily displace their anger on everyone else, especially who couldn't seem to get away from Virgil and Ruthie.  To me that is just sad and certainly not a reason to be angry with them.

I have less trouble feeling sorry for Joel. Compared to Jackie he was the mean one. I mainly feel sorry for the kid.

[Anonymous]

It's sad parents don't know their children (Ginger) and grandchildren because they can not let go of their attachment to The Seed or any of these other cult-like programs.  Nobody wins in a situation like this, but I agree with Ginger, it is best to keep a healthy emotional distance from her mom.  No guilt, no hate, no bitterness. Life goes on, and broken hearts really do heal faster where ever there is love.