Something new for everyone!

[Anonymous]

You guys need another perspective for once. How could you honestly think that 40 teens could be brainwashed? If they were sent to the Whitmore because they rebelled against their parents and had anger issues, how could they suddenly be manipulated to doing what two strangers said? If they didn?t listen to their parents, the people who gave birth to them, why would they listen to two people they don?t know? That just doesn?t make any sense! I want to know if anyone of you could answer these questions with a reasonable and rational answer. Everyone who sits here and posts crap all day: You guys have no life whatsoever. How could you waste all this valuable time talking about people some of you don?t even know or have never met? Why would you hurt people you don?t know? I don?t think you guys understand the impact of your actions. How would you feel if one day, out of nowhere, you found out that people you?ve never seen before are talking about you behind your back? Talking crap just starts a lot of unneeded problems, but I guess none of y?all care about anyone else but yourselves. If you?ve never been to the Whitmore before, how can you make assumptions about things you don?t even know about just because everyone else is talking about nonsense? On another note, some of you worry that some of the kids are getting abused. How could you honestly think that 40 teens could be brainwashed to take abuse, when they didn?t let anyone else do it to them, including their own parents? Even if they were, why wouldn?t they just go to the family and child services building down the block? And what about the staff? Are you going to tell me that they are getting ?brainwashed? too? How can you brainwash people that can walk out the door at any time? I don?t think y?all think of these things before you just sit at your computers and phones and talk crap. If y?all could answer these questions, then maybe you could get some facts. The only thing anyone is doing right now is gossip. Everyone is just going on ?he say, she say? crap and won?t sense of things. What?s the point of sitting there and gossiping? No one can get answers if they just gossip. Personally, I think everyone who talks crap needs to get a life and find something else to do? Y?all are so concerned about what goes on at the Whitmore that you don?t even worry about your family members or the problems you?re having in your lives. In closing, I just want to say that the people who are just wasting their time need to get their priorities in line and realize what is really important to them.

[Anonymous]

http://thestraights.com/images/seed-Ervin-brainwash.htm

Scroll down to the second arrow. Read.

[Anonymous]

Well helloooooo

Each parent on this site is basically concerned about their own individual child, not 40 kids.

No one is talking behind the Sudweeks' back.
When a parent files criminal charges with authorities, that is about as up-front as one can be, don't you think?

When have Cheryl or Mark ever stepped forward and had anything to say. Oh, Mark has spoken out a bit, but he has been confirmed as a liar by the ISAC posting here under to topic "The Truth Will Prevail."

You need to read a few articles about abuse victims--abused children, abused wives etc. It is a classic question, "Why don't they just leave?"

The parents on this site appear to have their priorities in line: trying to understand what happened to their children at Whitmore, and why!

We are discovering WHAT happened, and it is deplorable...who knows if we will ever understand the WHY.

[Anonymous]

Seems pretty easy to brainwash 40 kids after reading that article.

The Sudweeks seem to have the technique down just right, don't they?

[Antigen]

Hey, I've seen hundreds of kids and parents brainwashed by a handful of program staff. It's a momentum thing.

If you don't think it can happen, then can you explain why the people of Jonestown drank poison and even forced it down their children's throats?

Just read up on the history of cults. It's not hard to find info. It's not really some foreign weirdness, it's actually quite common.

Now, is Whitmore a cult? I don't know. By some indications, it might be. Did you read the thread "miracle workers"? Chilling! But by some other indications, they don't have quite that much sway over anybody. Chris Gentle, devoted as he is, is also willing to say programs are a bad idea all around, though some are worse than others. That's a pretty level take on it if you ask me. And then there are the kids who bucked Mark and Cheryl and gave a conflicting version of the events that took place at the movie theatre.

I've never said that Whitmore is the worst, most dangerous place in operation. In fact, the more I find out, the more convinced I am that it's not even in the top 10. But it's still worthwhile to discuss just what it is. Now why should that bother you? Nothing said about the Whitmore even approaches the level of malice and rage that I've seen heaped upon some of these kids who say less than glowing things.

Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947

[Anonymous]

Antigen, you mention the "malice and rage" heaped on these kids that post here.

I am not so sure that it is the kids at Whitmore who are posting these angry malicious statements all of the time.

When and if kids are allowed access to computers at Whitmore is very questionable from what my child reports.

IF an adult is posting and pretending to be a student(s) at Whitmore--then there again, the kids are being manipulated and hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anon

What if what these people are saying about their experiences are true?  Where do you get off telling them to get a life when you are here writing too. That's really ODD.

I dont believe people make up these kind of stories. i believe they believe they are true. Therfore you have no right to judge. You need to go get a life.

Be thankful your child wasnt in a place you believed was a healthy loving enviornment and found out it wasnt.

[Anonymous]

What an incredibly insulting thing to say.  As a parent who has posted on this site, I can't imagine why any parent would do such a thing.  Have you ever considered there might be an adult at The Whitmore who regularly posts.  I also know my child was made to post responses to this site while at The Whitmore at under Cheryl's close guidance.  That makes much more sense to me than a parent of a child now home.  As parent's we have nothing to hide or defend.  The Whitmore certainly has something to defend on a daily basis.  One last thing to consider;  Why would my child and several others receive threats to "keep their mouths shut, or else!" by a certain person still at The Whitmore?  Those who feel the need to threaten usually have something to hide.  Keep that in mind when you accuse innocent, concerned parents of posting threatening statements.  How do I know it was The Whitmore that called?  It was on my caller ID!

[Anonymous]

I may have misread the statement below that stated an adult may be doing some of the offensive postings.  After re-reading it, you may have meant an adult at The Whitmore was posting as a student.  I took it as adults outside The Whitmore.  If I misunderstood, my apology in advance for that statement.  The rest of the post still stands though.  Sorry for the quick reaction.

[Antigen]

On 2005-02-18 18:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen, you mention the "malice and rage" heaped on these kids that post here.



I am not so sure that it is the kids at Whitmore who are posting these angry malicious statements all of the time.

Oh, I'm absolutely sure it's not all coming from the Whitmore location. I was just commenting on the tone of some of the posts defending the Whitmore as compared to the tone of those critical of it.

When and if kids are allowed access to computers at Whitmore is very questionable from what my child reports.

But others are saying that kids have been encouraged to post. I can't know for certain which, if either, is true. But it seems likely, in the context of the rest of what we're hearing, that the kids and parents have been encouraged to say these things because that's perfectly consistent w/ what I remember from my days w/ The Seed and Straight and w/ a lot of stories coming out of the rest of the troubled parent industry.

IF an adult is posting and pretending to be a student(s) at Whitmore--then there again, the kids are being manipulated and hurt."

That actually seems unlikely.

Look, I'm really not about trying to force any particular pre-concieved notions about any of these places. All I'm trying to do is to provide a forum where people can tell their own view of the issue and the reader can decide for themselves what to make of it.

When I talk about malice and rage, I'm talking about some of the threats of violence, the horrible names and very personal, cutting accusations that have been posted here. Some of the kids and adults who are critical of the Whitmore have stated very level, matter of fact accounts.

Some of those include acts of violence allegedly commited by the Whitmore kids w/ the encouragement or at least tacit approval of the people who run the place. If those are true (I honestly don't know, but I understand that law enforcement is looking into those allegations) then I'm very concerned about the threats of violence against Leah and Erica and anyone else who might come along.

What do you think, Anon? (the one who started this thread) Should Leah be concerned about a Whitmore supporter who threatens to look her up and find a way to stuff a rag in her mouth? Should her grandma be concerned? Normally, I'd write that sort of stuff off as just vitriole, keyboard bravado. But several different people have now stated in these forums that they've received similarly threatening phone calls at home.

As to why I care, let's just say I have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who has been or is in danger of being held by an abusive cult in the guise of 'therapy'. It happened to me. When I got out, no one really believed me. That made my life so much harder. Maybe if people had a better understanding of how these groups work then you kids won't have such a rough time.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being of His Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Antigen for the clarification.  Very well put.  I for one appreciate the forum you have made available for parents to read, learn and share.  If it weren't for this forum my relationship with my child may have taken a whole different turn after his return home.

I now understand his "quirky" behavior and try to react very differently.  This is a very valuable sorce of information and contact for those who need answers.  It is very easy to weed through the "crap" as some put it.  I do believe it is making a difference in those who are home and those still there.

I continue to be perplexed by the involvement on this sight by those at The Whitmore.  It can not be healthy and productive for the children there to heal and grow.  If they are only allowed a 10 minute call on Sunday with their parents who might engage in negative talk, why in the world would they be allowed to read and participate on this site?  Wouldn't this create more doubt and confusion than any 10 minute call to a parent who loves and supports them.  Help me here?

The kids home are trying to move on and do the right thing. They are healing through conversations with each other.  I have witnessed conversations of apologies for the physical and emotional pain done to each other.  They are carrying a tremendous amount of guilt and need to release it.

However, it is difficult to do this when they recieve emails and threating phone calls from The Whitmore-some from cheryl herself.  Again I have to ask, why are the kids there allowed and encouraged to be involved in this negative activity.  I know Cheryl was present at the time, my son was asked to speak with her...he declined.

I keep asking myself,if all these are untrue and unfounded attacks on The Whitmore, why the threats to so many people.  My son has not posted on this sight since he has been home.  He has not done anything to warrant a threat. He has NOT spoken to any other parents to "spread lies."

I am the one who posted.  If Cheryl or The Whitmore feels there is a terrible misunderstanding and "we" should talk it out, why not contact me?  Curiously, how did they figure out who my son was if his name was never mentioned nor mine??  There has to be some validity to the story or they could not have matched someone to it?!?  Make sense?

Thank you again Antigen for the service you provide here.  Please know you are making a difference.  You have affected many lives, more than you will probably ever know.  The information and contacts here are invaluable.  Keep up the good work!  For those of you who disagree, it is kind of like the TV... if you don't like it, change the channel!

[Antigen]

Thanks, Anon. That's good to hear.

Curiously, how did they figure out who my son was if his name was never mentioned nor mine?? There has to be some validity to the story or they could not have matched someone to it?!? Make sense?

A farmer slaughtered and hung a couple of pigs one spring day and then went about the rest of his day. When he returned to take them down a couple of hours later, one of them had been cut down. He never said a word about it to anyone, but just continued about his business asif nothing had happened.

Several weeks later while chatting w/ a neighbor over the fencepost, the neighbor asks him "So, did you ever figure out who stole that pig?"

"Yup. Just now."

 :rofl:

Vain are the thousand creeds that move men's hearts, unutterably vain, worthless as wither'd weeds.
--Emily Bronte

[Joyce Harris]

Regarding any threatening phone calls, emails etc to ex-students or parents from anyone connected to Whitmore:

I would take the threatening phone calls very seriously, and would report them to the Nephi Police and my local Police Departments immediately.

When we returned home with our 12 year old daughter, we began receiving phone calls from students at the Whitmore, and email an email from Cheryl Sudweeks,. which we immediately turned over to our local police and to the Nephi Police.

We also received a scary telephone call from a Ben McQuivey which we turned over to our local police and the Nephi police departments.  The only way the McQuiveys could have our personal telephone information was through the Whitmore Academy.

The Nephi Police Department informed us that they went to the Whitmore Academy with our complaint, and the phone, email harrassment did stop.

We are no longer being harrassed, but do we feel totally safe? Not really.

[Anonymous]

To the parent: I wrote the post suggesting that "perhaps an ADULT was posting using kids names." I did mean an Adult at the WHITMORE.   I never ever meant PARENTS of any kids.

I read Antigen's remarks about this, so it probably is the kids writing themselves.

I just think that we parents just have a difficult time accepting that kids can really think this way....talk this way...and write this way.

But then: we parents who placed our children at the Whitmore have difficulty coming to terms with the idea that our children were so controlled, and became so filled with ideas that are so foreign to our concepts of "family" and "love."

I am accepting that these postings so full of rage, name-calling, and threats are actually being written by teen-agers. That is very scary to me.

We parents sent our kids to Whitmore, however misguided we were, for help.  Not to have them become so full of rage that they turn on each other like this.