The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?

[Anonymous]

"all ya need is love ya, da da dada da ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::

[Stripe]

I read these on the web, doing some searching on other subject matter related to my expereinces.

After The Seed I was lonely and confused, having dismissed all my longtime school friends  as "druggies," etc. You guys know the rap.  Anyway, I can see I was vulnerable and ripe for indoctrination into something.

I don't know which was worse, The Seed of 1973
or the Chrisitan church cult of 1975.

But both had these CULT recognized qualities:

1. Absolute authoritanrianism without meaningful accountability.  

2. No tolerace for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial diclosure regarging budget or expenses - like a balance sheet. Where did all the money go?

4.  Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe evil conspiracies and persecutions.  

5.  There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6.  Former Members often relate the same  stories of abuse and reflect a simialr pattern of grievances.

7.  There are records, books, new articles or tv programs that documentthe abuses of/by the group/leaders.

8. Followers feel they can never be good enough.

9. The group/leader is always right.

10.   The group/leader is the exlcusive means of knowing the truth or receiving validation; no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

I got this list from another website that deals with religious and spritiual-based cults so some of you may recognize its origin.

I know The Seed was not a religious orgainizaiton, but the similarities between the general criteria of a "BAD" religious cult and The Seed are just too close to be ignored.

Really, regardless of whether it helped the drug addicted or not, how could any of us who were there NOT be able to see these similarities?

It's been a lot of years since most of us were there,so the look back might not be as painful as some of you may fear.

What do y'all think?

And to answer the question - Did Art Barker succeed?  No.  His cult imploded.  But he still makes a nice living off the proceeds.
 

For those Seedlings who say The Seed was not a cult, you have to

[marshall]

Hi stripe. You might also like this link:

Click Here

Excerpts from the link:
"The apparently loving unanimity of the group masks strict rules against private as well as public dissent. Questions are deflected; critical comments are met with smiling pleas of "no negativity," or some other "thought-terminating cliche," to use one of Lifton's terms.
Prospects and new members slide down a spiral of increasing dependence on the group. They are often encouraged or ordered to live with other group members. In many cases, they even work with other members. People outside the group are viewed as spiritually, psychologically, or socially inferior, or as impediments to the members' development. In order to "advance" at a satisfactory pace, members must spend long hours involved in various exercises deemed necessary by the group. In short, members spend more and more time with and under the direction of the group.
Although cult recruits may be vulnerable in various ways, cults are, nevertheless, strikingly successful in bringing about and maintaining substantial behavioral and psychological changes in members
Because dissent, doubt, and negativity are forbidden, members must project a facade of "happiness" and agreement while struggling to achieve the impossible. Those who fail to project the requisite facade (because, for example, they admit, usually with much guilt, to harboring doubts about the group) are attacked and punished, sometimes viciously. Those who persist in "failing through honesty" are, by one means or another, driven out of or ejected from the group.
Dr. Tim told clients that he was "more enlightened than Jesus...and had created the ultimate therapy, combining Freud, Zen, Kundalini yoga, and LSD." The latter, he said, was to "override their egos."  No criticism or complaints were tolerated by Tim, as such indicated "being in your head," rather than "in your feelings."
Some, but not all, of the leaders widely promulgated the "getting out of your head" notion and, consequently, had followers drop technical or professional careers."----quotes from the link

[Admin note: I just edited for formatting]

[Thom]

On 2005-02-21 21:36:00, Stripe wrote:

I don't know which was worse, The Seed of 1973
or the Chrisitan church cult of 1975
"

Did you mean "Christian" church cult, as in a bad experience you might have had with a particular organization, or do you consider Christianity itself to be cultic?

[Stripe]

The first. I know that all religious organizations are not cults. In this western society though, I see the "chrisitan" and "evangelical outreach" churches sometimes have these sub-programs that are very cultish in nature.  Sure you can go to church on sumday AM, but for a person who really wants spiritual growth there's also adult bible study, couples and singles bible study, sunday night church, wednesday nights, mid-week counseling, amway sales clubs, retreats, etc. etc., etc.

For persons who were never drug addicts, I think the whole Seed experience makes them (me) so much more suseptible to cults and cult -like mind control.

[Stripe]

Hey Marshall,

I see that "inside the group/outside the group" mentality in lots and lots of churches these days.  
It is sad, but I hesitate to attend any formal religous services for this very reason.   There's just no place for individual thought unless you attend anonymously, never give your real name, or go to a different town.

[Thom]

For years I had a general dis-trust for anything 'churchy' I had formed my impression of God based on the behavior of a few people. Today I understand that God is God, and people are people. People will eventually not live up to my expectations. My spiritual life now is centered on God, and when possible, enjoyed and shared with other people. I do belong to a 'church' where I enjoy good fellowship w/people, and I'm grateful for it, but I can worship God all by my lonesome too.

I have visited churches where I either just didn't sense God's presence (I know...He's everywhere) and others where I strongly sensed the presence of His adversary at work. (i left in a hurry!) These days, My God comes in many different denominations, but not 10's and 20's. I shy away from the big 'palace' type church buildings. I can't justify putting out that kind of cash on decorations when there are millions of people scratching around for food. When Jesus walked the Earth, he was into building people. Seems like that's a good example for us. So...where am I headed with this?.. I don't know, just thought I'd throw out some stuff to consider.

[marshall]

Thom, are you the guy that art used to bring up before the group to play guitar? (this was 76-77) or am I confusing you with someone else?

[Thom]

No, Marshall, I'm the other Thom who used to sing with him. I was saddened to learn the other day, in a different topic that he died some years ago. He was a very talented musician, and fun to be around. I'm grieving a bit. I remember one time we took a road trip to the Cleveland Seed. Art wanted us to sing a few songs for the group. That was an adventure. I learned about 'bridges ice before roads' on that trip. Learning to drive in S. Fla, I had little experience on ice. Somewhere in Ohio, in my little Toyota Corolla wagon, I hit a slick spot and made at least 2 complete 360's, crossing into a bunch of other lanes and stuff. There was quite a bit of traffic on the road, yet we didn't hit anything. I credit the grace of God, and the skill of the local drivers for that one. Are you one of the guys from All-benny? Art used to get such a kick out of the accent thing. He had us saying 'grits and eggs' whenever a GA guy was at bat when we played softball.

[marshall]

I'm sorry to hear of his death. Thanks for clearing that up. Yes, I'm from close to all-benny. Grits & eggs...that's what I just had for breakfast.  :smile:

[Antigen]

I left my heart
In East Albany
At the Piggly Wiggly
On Slappy Boulevard...

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

[Thom]

That sounds familiar, was that from a talent show or something?

[SteveHHMD]

I spent about a year with Art, Libby, John, Suzy.  ('75-76 Ft Lauderdale) When I look back on it, I cringe at the degree of control those people had over me.  But the truth was, I was dying and would not have survived.  I went thru the program, then I grew up.  At the time, I needed a crutch, the control to keep me from self-distructing.  I don't believe in black and white anymore, see most things in shades of grey.  But I must say I would be in the earth right now were it not for the Seed.  I consider it, in retrospect, temporary mind control for a mind that was totally out of control.  I love life now.  I wouldn't say I'm proud of having needed the Seed.  But I must also say there's nothing wrong with honesty, love of self, and love of others.  As a doctor I care for many wayward souls.  Many  of these don't make it.  Sometimes drastic measures are needed for drastic problems.
Steve

[GregFL]

welcome Steve. We look forward to your participation here.

Tell me, why are you so sure you would be dead? what causes you to draw that conclusion?

thanks, and tell us something you remember from the seed circa 76/77

[Thom]

Hi Dr. Steve,

   We were there about the same time. I kind of drifted away sometime around '76. Back then I had a problem with the concept of alcohol being a drug. After all, you could walk into 7-11 and buy it. That's exactly what I did on the way home from a 'rap' one night.
 
   I still remember the internal struggle as I popped open that 16 ounce Bud in the parking lot of the 7-11 on US-1, just south of the tunnel. "I'm different! I?m different!, maybe for them it's a drug, but I can handle it."
   
It was my little secret. They wouldn't understand, so I just won't mention it to any one. Well, I got real different over the next 15 or so years. Lots of drugs, lots of booze, a couple of failed marriages, etc.
We all know the story.

   I remember Art coming out to talk to the group one day, and saying something like, 'If we only save one kid, it will all have been worth it.' At the time, I didn't get it. I thought he was being negative. That statement makes perfect sense to me today.

   I had many nights where I hadn't a clue how I managed to drive home. Sometimes I would go out in the morning and check the car for damage and blood. I thank God I never found the later.
 
   I came up for air in a recovery meeting in '91. They were talking about the 12 steps. "Hey, I've heard that before! What the hell happened?" I recall thinking. Facing the horrifying reality that I had essentially wasted all those years, after having had the answer spoon fed to me back then, I latched onto recovery with both hands, and hung on for dear life. Quite a ride, actually.

   Well, it came back fairly quickly for me. The Seed had been planted deep, and I had heaped plenty of 'fertilizer' on top, but when the time was right, it sprouted.

   For quite a while before my return to sanity, I had considered suicide. I even had a plan. Sadly, I would have died without ever having lived. Just for the record, I didn't do it.

   God had different plans for me, and as I learn to give him room to work, I get to see amazing things! Better than acid. :smile: (Seems like the name would have clued us in on that stuff)I spend a lot of time 'brain washing' (sharing life) with people these days. I have had the privilege to see MANY lives turned around, and I plan on continuing telling the willing listener what has worked for me. I guess you could call me 'The AntiGing'  :roll: (Sorry Sis'..it was just too tempting. Love ya, mean it!)

   Anyway, welcome to the minority! Most posters here have bad memories of The Seed. If you choose to respond to the question "Tell me, why are you so sure you would be dead? What causes you to draw that conclusion?" In spite of the fact that you likely see that scenario played out over and over in your line of work, some here will not understand. I do. Thanks for the post!

Thom M.