Author Topic: earning the right to walk by yourself  (Read 6787 times)

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Offline GregFL

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« on: January 29, 2005, 03:15:00 PM »
When I was in the seed, you were escorted around as a newcomer by an oldcomer that was physically larger than you. If you were a boy, another boy put his arm around your shoulder and squeezed you in. The more compliant you were, the less hard the squeeze. If you were a misbehavior, the other kid would be real large and the grip real tight. Girls held the hands of newcomer girls.

In later years, the newer seed rippoff programs like Straight started Holding kids by the back of the belt, obstensably to get around the sexual ennuendo of girls holding hands and boys with arms around each other.  This became known as "beltlooping" the newcomer. The method was different but the intention and result was the same.

My question...When did the seed stop this practice, if ever?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline 90's Guy

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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2005, 05:40:00 PM »
The practice did not exist in the 90's. The newcomer simply went back to the bathrrom by temselves. Remember we were back on Andrew's inside the building, which was a lot smaller space for people to move around by themselves. AS I  have stated before, there were were aspects of the program that were more relaxed. . .staff was getting older. . .people were more chilled out...they seemed to have given up on the intensity of the program, the yelling and such, although the authoritarian figures were still present. . .it was for the most part run part time and after the newcomer was there for about 3 weeeks, from 9-4, the group including staff would only stay from about 9-12:00, and the newby got a job, lived in a home with the guys or girls. . .but no no arms around each other, except the ritual of singing jingle bells.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Jimmy Cusick

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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2005, 05:59:00 PM »
I cant believe the hours were 9-4. That is mucho different from when I was in 10-10 seven days a week. I dont really know about the arm around the shoulder thing, when I left Cleveland in 77 that was still going on. I remember John *** lived in the upstairs of a house and when he brought newcomers over he would walk them with his arm around them. The downstairs neighbors thought he was gay but he was too big to for them to say anything
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline 90's Guy

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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2005, 06:15:00 PM »
After about 1990, the hours were 9 -4. IT was fairly realxed in the group. I mean, every once in a while if someone needed to hear the "truth," it woulg get a little "in your face," but certainly nothing like twhat the 70's generation describes. Also, after a few weeks of the newcomer being on the front row, the hours were 9-12 since the staff had other businesses that they ran after their part-time seed job. I believe that the stagg also did not collect a salary for several of the last years, but then at the end were compensated for what theywere owed towards the end. It was pretty much of a part-time semi-volunteer situation the final years. We would, I remember, play tennis with the newcomer after 12:oo, graduates would take turn picking them up if they could get the afternnon off from work.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2005, 08:41:00 PM »
My god,playing tennis with the newcomer at noon?


Who woulda thought? When I was in, at noon you had spent two hours and were now going to get a wet peanut butter sandwich and a small dixie cup of cool-aide. Then right back at it for 10 more hours with only a few breaks.

The seed really did change into something totally different.
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Offline echothis

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2005, 11:25:00 PM »
In 70 when I was there I don't remember the practice of being taken to the bathroom.  I don't believe that was practiced at that time.  Although you were watched.  We had Jiffy Johns lined up back behind the house.     :em:
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Offline GregFL

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2005, 12:08:00 AM »
The house? Are you saying 1970?

Sorry, but you need to be more clear. In 73, we had bathroom monitors ( I know, I was one) and NO NEWCOMER could walk ANYWHERE without the arm around them. It was a "priviledge" that had to be "earned" by obtaining "going home" status.
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Offline Ican'tTalktoYou

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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2005, 12:31:00 AM »
Ditto on that one.

In '73 when I was there, I had my hand held every time I went to the bathroom.  Fortunately, I didn't get enough to eat or drink so I didn't have to go much.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2005, 01:38:00 AM »
Don't forget exhausted from no sleep and disoriented from lack of contract with the outside world and fear of confrontation.

It really was an unpleasant shock to a 14 year old. I cannot even imagine the horror of putting my 15 year old precious daughter  thru anything remotely resembling what I went thru.
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Offline Fran

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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2005, 01:53:00 AM »
You know I have no memory what so ever of going to the bathroom...why???
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2005, 02:00:00 AM »
I don't know fran. But I can tell you this, in 1973 my bladder was almost full. I remember going days without bowel movements, as does my sister. You had to ask junior staff to go and they always said no the first couple times you asked, then after being walked over you had to disclose what you were going to do, it was written down and then you were watched by an oldcomer while you went.

The whole thing was highly suspect in my best estimation.
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Offline Antigen

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2005, 02:03:00 AM »
In Straight, 1980, they were beltlooping girls too.

Fran, don't worry about holes in your memory of things. It's true that accute trauma can make you ecclipse whole episodes. But, after a short while, you get used to the bathroom routine. That wouldn't explain it. It's more likely that you don't remember a bunch of things because you were not allowed to talk about it or even reference the responses of the people around you for social proof.

If you don't get affirmation, then it's like it never happened. That's how we're designed to operate. That's why all the rigid rules about communication, outside contact, cliquing (not CLICKING, damn it!) and "getting into your head" (thinking).

No unauthorized interpretation! They could have shortened rules rap and given us much needed sleep by condensing a half dozen or so rules into that brief statement. But it only "works" if you don't understand the process.



I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

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Offline echothis

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2005, 09:47:00 AM »
Clear how's this for Clear,  In 1970 I don't believe most kids there were escorted to the Jiffy Johns. I wasn't ever!!!!

I don't ever remember anyone ever touching me for any reason.  

Ya know,  I don't believe Art and Co. had a book they went by.  If a situation warrented a change in policy that's the direction they went in. Then if there was pressure to change it they would. There was no master plan.   Art found a niche in the Seed programme and he milked it I think for some of his own good.  Didn't he obtain a Limo at some point?  I don't think he had a junker car when I went there..   Love Love....
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2005, 11:11:00 AM »
It is also suspect that the seed started out one way, then wammo, got a cool million from Dupont, a rabid synanon supporter, became like the synanon for a couple years, then slowly went back to its original roots ( a goofy creepy cult).

I really would like to solve this puzzle....
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Offline echothis

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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2005, 12:30:00 PM »
That's what I'm saying Greg.  There was no Master Plan.  I don't know what the synanon  belief has to do with anything Art implemented except maybe he took parts of it he learned somewhere and used it in the Seed programme.  As he took parts from AA, and then one day he used the pink toilet and bam it was an intense impact. Then from what I understand later-on they used the toilet seat around the neck because maybe sitting a young person on a pink toilet with their pants down around their ankles was looked  at as inappropriate. Like Ten till Ten, that was   important to the Attitude Adjustments that needed to occur.  Sitting on the wooden benches.  Some of those things were still implemented till the end because they weren't inappropriate.   :grin:
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