G.T. Now

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-30 08:55:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-01-30 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Cayo,







 And ALL of these problems, are 100% stemmed from a year or two of a program??  

The point again flies over your head.



THESE PROGRAMS DO NOT WORK. People fail at roughly the same rate whether they go thru a tc program or not.



In addition, they harm people and break up families.





Why support a broken promise, a failed system that requires locking people up and breaking them down, when there is no evidence anything of value comes from it?









"

  It is my belief that the program "the steps" work IF you want them to and choose to apply them.  I choose to, and it's worked for me (like it or not).

  As for family , both my parents remaned married and well (45 years now), my sister's married 12 years (first marriage), and I for 7 years (first marriage).  

  It's NOT black and white!

[Helena Handbasket]

  It is my belief that the program "the steps" work IF you want them to and choose to apply them.  I choose to, and it's worked for me (like it or not).



  As for family , both my parents remaned married and well (45 years now), my sister's married 12 years (first marriage), and I for 7 years (first marriage).  



  It's NOT black and white!"

No, it's not.  I think that's what everyone's been trying to say.  Shit has happened, and shit is still allowed to happen.

I just hope you're not guaging "success" in how long a marriage lasts.   Some marriages last a long time simply because there will be hell to pay if one or the other wants out.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-30 10:12:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"

On 2005-01-30 09:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


""I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing"





what about this...why did it work for me and my family but not one other person that ever went through the program? am i the only one? hey that makes me a pretty special guy! :scared:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-30 11:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-01-30 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


""i do however see the problem in a parent not having the child tested for mental illness or a psych evaluation done before just putting there kid in a program...thats wrong!...my parents spent years testing me for everything just to see if i was ok mentally...when i was ok then they determined that something else had to be done."





I said that!


D."

See, now you read that as the way to do it right. I read it as classic quack medicine. Your parents went from expert to expert trying to find a problem and each one confirmed that you didn't have any significant problem. So they kept shopping till they found somebody to take their money and tell them what they wanted to hear.



That's how cancer patients wind up shooting up sharrk cartilage. And that's fine. If they believe it may help, everybody should be free to follow their own judgement. But we're all free to publicly scrutinize any service that's offered for sale.



That's how the free market works. After awhile, the bogus stuff shakes out. We no longer let blood as a cure for whatever ails you because we have a better understanding of health and medicine. I think the TC model will go the way of the leech doctors. Who knows, there may be some legitimage use for the TC model that will stand the test. They do still use leaches in medicine. Just not the way they used to. And probably very rarely w/o the fully informed consent of the patient.



I honestly don't think that the way GT is doing things can stand much scrutiny. But we'll see.

The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor

--Anatole France

"

actually..it goes deeper than that...speech impediment early on was investigated for neurological issues...but then we went to a minister for behavior...another psychologist for behavior...tough love was implemented and then i went for the gusto...just not coming home for extended periods...not bathing...not caring...alchohol....nonstop fighting...my life was a mess by the time i was a junior in high school. they did the homework...my parents dont make rash decisions and i think the program was a last resort.
bingo....i had a relationship with my folks...actually my whole family would come to open meetings...people who i never even talked to...it was great to see how many people cared...i felt supported. intake to 7th step was about a year and a half.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-30 10:59:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-01-30 09:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


""I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing"





what about this...why did it work for me and my family but not one other person that ever went through the program? am i the only one? hey that makes me a pretty special guy! :grin:  


D."

You are not the only one. i Believe that the program is ineffective, and that people like you just believe the lie, that the program saved you.



I think it was in you all the while..to succeed. It was in me too and I did...beyond my wildest imagination. However, the program threw a stumbling block in my path and gave me additional issues to deal with.



Drugs were bad for me. I did more after the program but had more issues piled on top.Many graduated get weighed under by the additional baggage of broken families and diagnosed "powerlessness" they learn in the program, combined with feelings of diminshed self worth and isolation.



  Is there anyway you understand or are open to this?  



I have no doubt the program point marks a turning point in your life. If that is the case, you probably would have done just fine"

i might have...but then i might not and that...to me...would have been worse than the program...i took what the program taught me and used what i needed...thats what helped...i didnt agree with everything that was said or done but i dont think i believe a lie...i think that the program was right for me  at that time in my life...maybe the timing was right. i am taking an open mind to how you all feel ...i just cant relate to the horrors/paying for the program for the rest of my life mentality...i have shown no ill effects....and i still use some of the tools.

[GregFL]

Good for you. We understand how you might feel that way.

Now, open up to what happened to your fellow Inductees. Many feel betrayed and harmed by the program. Many others felt that way then but have overcome it.

There is a reason..open your mind and heart to how some of those techniques could really damage a fragile teenage spirit and ego.

[Helena Handbasket]

i still use some of the tools."

What tools are those?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-30 13:25:00, Anonymous wrote:


  It is my belief that the program "the steps" work IF you want them to and choose to apply them.  I choose to, and it's worked for me (like it or not).

Nope.  No program dogma here.  Nope. Not at all.
 :lol:  :lol:

As for family , both my parents remaned married and well (45 years now), my sister's married 12 years (first marriage), and I for 7 years (first marriage).  

What does that have to do with the price of dope in Amsterdam???

 It's NOT black and white!"

That's the ONE statement you and I can agree on.

If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
 
--Thomas Jefferson

[DC]

I would like to thank all that responded to my origional post.  There were some very well thought out and knowledgeable posts.  I can respect all opinions.  I do not however have anything to say for the people who only wish to bad-mouth me and think that I do not understand what I have done with my daughter.  I have been in recovery for 16 years and have been in 2 treatment facilities in my life.  I have also taken courses in college to become a drug addiction counselor.  So, while I have some experience and knowledge regarding this subject, I'll admit I do not know all.  I have only reported on my own personal experience with Growing Together.  I know there are alot of people out there that have had some bad experiences in this program or like programs, and I am sorry for that.  Human beings are not cut out of 1 single mold.  What works for "Sally" does not neccesarilly work for "Susan".  What I am trying to say is that I am sorry for people who have had some bad experiences, but I want you to know that is not our experience.  I know my daughter extremly well, and know that she has not been either physically or mentally abused, end of story.  For those grasping to come up with an abuse scenerio, that is just ludicrous.
I know the comment I made about my wife and mind-control got alot of play....but it was a joke.  So for all the small minded and simple thinking people who had to comment on that 1 liner, well I just feel sorry for you.
In the end, it is unfortunate that there is not a 100% guaranteed method of dealing with addiction, but that is a fact.  While I believe there are many paths to recovery, I know that we made the right choice in making our path through GT.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, and GOD bless you all, even the stupid ones.

[Anonymous]

recovery for 16 years, eh?

Seems you have bitten on that "powerless" lie pretty hard yourself...

[Anonymous]

I know my daughter extremly well, and know that she has not been either physically or mentally abused.

I doubt it...

Again, thank you for your thoughts, and GOD bless you all, even the stupid ones.

And we appreciate idiots like you coming here as well.... :tup:

[DC]

I do have power friend, over my attitude and my actions.  GOD laughs when we make plans.

[DC]

I really feel sorry for a mindless, cynical, mean-spirited person like you.  I hope you get some help.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-31 12:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"recovery for 16 years, eh?



Seems you have bitten on that "powerless" lie pretty hard yourself...





"

Took the words right outta my mouth!! :nworthy:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-31 13:02:00, DC wrote:

"I do have power friend, over my attitude and my actions.  GOD laughs when we make plans."

and I laugh at your belief in an all-seeing, all-knowing invisible sky primate. :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: