I'm Curious

[Anonymous]

Go perigaud Go!!!!

[Deborah]

Perri,
While I was being somewhat facetious in my suggestion that parents set up their own BM torture chamber at home, I would seriously like to hear how it would have been for you if your parents had kept you home and done everything the program did.
Kept you in a locked, controlled environment away from the outside world, friends, family, social life. Set arbitary and excessive rules, some with no basis in reality. Punished every slight infraction. No tv, phone, computer. Same redundant, bland, limited quantity of food at every meal. Forbide you to look up unless spoken to, or look at yourself in a mirror, or look out the window, or cross a threshold without permission. If they threatened to restrain you as punishment or require you to sit/lay staring at the wall for hours on end and for days or months at a time. Required you to listen to self-help tapes day-in-day-out and gave little consideration to your education. And, yada, yada. You know the programs methods.

What would prevent your parents from setting up such an environment at home? Might you do this for your own children or would you too, choose to send them away? If so, why?

Were you really capable of 'putting a knife to' another kids throat prior to the program? If so, was placement in a W facility really appropriate? Are they equiped to deal with that level of anger/violence? Do they keep violent kids away from the generic population?

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-04 05:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thier answer will be i'll do anything, but send them away. You won;t get any real responses because they would not know what to do. This one parent took a very big chance, as you and me know. They however will not believe it.

Again don't let these people get you mad perri.

You are a shining example of what good can come from some of these schools. Be proud!

Be very proud!! The one that cares"

No, you're wrong. I haven't had time to catch up on this thread and make a good answer. But I have been in the same situation as the other parent. My daughter was completely out of (my) control. And we did try damned near everything to reel her in before she finally moved out of our house. At that time, her boyfriend was facing agrivated assault charges and she had been an eye wittness to the crime. He was trying to talk her into emancipating herself. We looked up the process, told her what she would have to do and agreed to do our part if she really wanted it. We also told her that we didn't want to do this because being a legal adult might make her a more attractive target for the prosecution. (the boyfriend was involved in a LOT of criminal activity)

Thankfully, she dropped it. Yes, I lost a LOT of sleep worrying about her wellbeing as well as the fall-out that might come back on the rest of the family. But the alternative was no safer for any of us. The primary difference between what she was doing to herself and what a program would do is that the minute she decided to get out of the situation, she could. Instead of changing the locks and withholding our support and affection, I paid for her dental care when she was so bold as to sneak out of the house (litterally!) to go to the dentist. Same thing when she wanted to get her GED. Psycho Boy did his usual song and dance. He promised her a ride then picked a fight the night before, kept her up all night crying, etc. So when she called for a ride, I was there for her.

And when she was finally ready to leave the whole crazy situation, she had a bus ticket waiting for her and a couple of uncles ready to go pick her up.

So now my daughter is 20 years old. She might have been in college by now, except that she has gotten ill. And here's a case where I can be pretty damned sure that, had she been in a program when she got sick, she'd be dead right now. Her only symptoms were a stomach ache that wouldn't go away and vomiting. No way in hell would you fuckers have believed that she was actually in need of emergency medical care had she been in a Program. No chance that she would have been evaluated and brought into surgery within the few hours she had left before her bowel would have exploded.  

Now, despite having been extremely ill and having had 5 major surgeries in the past year, she has retained her job so that she can go back to work as soon as her doctors approve and she's gotten a car and started the process of picking up her education where she left off. Not only is she not deadinsaneorinjail, she's actually quite an impressive young woman. I'm very proud.

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
-- Ben Franklin At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.

[Anonymous]

But Antigen, don't you understand??  You were just LUCKY!!  It had nothing to do with you taking responsibility as a parent or with your daughter taking responsibility for her life. :roll:  :lol: Glad she's doing better physically.  I know you guys went through quite a bit.

When my daughter read that statement about it being 'luck' that she's not dead or in jail, she really kind of took offense to that.  She's worked hard to pull herself out of the hole she dug herself into.  To chalk that all up to luck is really tantamount to saying she had nothing to do with it.  Responsibility folks...personal responsibility.  On the part of both parent and child.

[Anonymous]

HI Ginger.
So sorry to hear your daughter has been through to much lately. Glad to read she is on the mend.
You have every right to feel proud of her - and your right -
Had she been in the care of many programs, she would have died.

[Antigen]

Thanks, y'all.

Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[Perrigaud]

I am aware there are many different methods of parenting. Hence the reason I asked the question to everyone. So far so good. Thanks for all of your input. Life is a journey in which everyone goes through different stages and specifically; events. I never was looking for a specific answer.
**************************************************Yes I was that angry. However nowadays I wouldn't even dream of doing the things that I did when I was younger.
**************************************************

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 02:13:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"I'm curious as to what all those avid anti-program people would do if their kid was severly out of control? This means that grounding wouldn't work, they already had a record, drugs were used, physical abuse was administered by them, and you had raised them the best you could."

I'd play stupid, like I didn't think that what they were doing was harmful.  I'd pretend that I didn't have enough money to get them real help and tell people how bad I think programs are - I'd tell other parents about sites like this and have them read about other people that feel the way I do, that programs are for gullible, brainwashable idiots.  After all, I did the best I could because I'm perfect!   :tup:

[Perrigaud]

That's a shitty response. I edited my initial question so it's up to anyone really. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-07 23:07 ]

[miseducated]

On 2005-01-03 02:13:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"I'm curious as to what would anyone do if their kid was severly out of control? This means that grounding wouldn't work, they already had a record, drugs were used, physical abuse was administered by them, and you had raised them the best you could.[ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-07 23:06 ]"

Possible responses:
1. Take them to a medical professional. It sounds like they have a psychiatric issue. I would also get myself screened as it might be genetic and it would help if both me and my kid were treated.

2. If they were really hurting me with their physical abuse, I would fix the living situation so that they were not living with me.

3. I would sit down and let them talk about what it was that was making them so unhappy, and then help them to put some plans together for their future.

4. I almost forgot: I would ask them if anyone in their life was abusing them, and suggest that even if they could not tell me that they please tell someone. I think a lot of kids give up on the world out of disillusionment.

5. If grounding did not work I would not use it. Sometimes kids just want to be treated like adults. To that end, I might find them a boarding school that was more like college. They are probably ready to be away from me. This would be a school in the regular sense of the word.

Not possible responses:
1. I would not send them to a so-called treatment facility that in any way resembled a controlling cult.

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-07 23:05:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"That's a shitty response. I edited my initial question so it's up to anyone really.

You really are a good kid, Perrigaud. (and by "kid" I generally mean someone under 30 or so... I'm ooooolllllddd!)

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

--Thomas Jefferson, 1791, in a letter to Archibald Stuart

[Perrigaud]

Are you being facetious again? You're right as far as my age goes. I'm only 21. Got a lot of learning and experience headed my way. Age to me means little. It's all about experience and knowledge. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-08 16:47 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-04 04:59:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"I still haven't gotten any good responses to my original question. What would you do if you tried:

1. Grounding your kid and they just don't abide.

2. Taking their car away: they sneak out or walk

3. Therapy: they lie, refuse to talk, or such.

4. Giving the Chores: They flat out tell you to go to hell.

5. Letting them do whatever: They break the law and you're responsible because they're underage and your the guardian.



*let me know if there are other options other than just legally emancipating them. Oh, and could you really do that?*"

If I were to PERSONALLY respond to these misdeeds as the program did, my household would look a little bit like this:

1. I would have to install a special needs area, so if my child misbehaves continuously, I can lock them in there for 72 hours and only feed them a handful of food per day, and not allow any showers. I'll escort them to a portapotty I have installed out back when they have to go to the bathroom. No shoes, and only one layer of clothing!

2. When my child gets out of special needs, I need a secondary form of punishment. I know! I'll build a worksheets room! I'll use wood to build a box my child can sit in for 18 hours a day, writing the same damn sentence over and over. A few days of this, and they will never repeat that darn bad behavior again!

3. Now that they know I mean business, it's time to get his friends in on this. Let's pit them all against each other and watch the fireworks begin!

4. Better we homeschool him. A simple desk and book will do, it's not like we want to challenge his intellect! Let's make him feel smart, yeah, that will work good. 5 days a week of sitting at that desk reading and writing is much better than normal school!

5. We can't have any serious change to his psyche without some serious behavior modification training! Lets change our garage into a seminar room! We can hang posters all over the walls, and run around screaming for 3 days straight. If we deprive him of sleep it will be much easier to get him to break.

6. Of course I will have to install locks on all the doors, and remove his shoelaces to prevent him from running, that's just common sense!

Well, that should work. Granted, I would like to have total isolation from the outside world, so I should probably move to the forest so nobody bothers me and he doesn't think of running. Maybe I'll hire a couple of retarded locals, big fat ones, that can sit on him until he complies. Yeah... my teen will be so thankful in the future, I kept them from being deadinsaneorinjail! Hoorah for me, I'm a wonderful parent.

The reason parents send their kids away is because they can't legally do what the programs do to kids. They'd be put in jail, or possibly a psychiatric facility.

But sure, keep on defending the program...

[Perrigaud]

Don't worry I will.  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

That's the problem!  All these anti program people just want to complain.  They have no alternatives to offer parents that have done all they can, therapy, outpatient, couseling, groundings, restrictions, talking, on and on.  Maybe all these guys should start a program and run it the way they think that would really help the kids and their parents.  Obviously, there's good money in it!  If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.  Perri, you're the best.  Smart  "kid" !