Author Topic: successfull seed graduates  (Read 11636 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« on: December 08, 2004, 04:52:00 PM »
The Seed Indeed is all you need to stay off the JUNK and the PILLS and the WEED.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates ... =917111900


"evidence was also introduced which revealed that Walton had abused drugs as an adolescent and teenager, and had been enrolled in a radical therapy program which likely left him severly emotionally scarred, but which had not halted his continued abuse of illegal drugs."


"... KIMBERLY WALTON, WHO WAS IN THE SAME SEED PROGRAM WITH MR  MR. WALTON. IT WAS HER TESTIMONY THAT WAS PRESENTED AT THE EVIDENTIARY HEARING IN 1991 THAT EXPLAINED THE NATURE OF THIS EXPERIMENTAL PROGRAM AND HOW DAMAGING IT WAS TO PEOPLE WHO WENT THROUGH THE PROGRAM.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2004, 04:53:00 PM »
oops sorry, that was me. Forgot to log in.

GregFL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Stripe

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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
I take it the jury or sentencing judge did not put much weight on the tesitmony quoted here.  Having assisted in the defense of more than one first degree murder case I can say that it's a terrible thing for everyone.  Tragic for the victim and family, tragic for the defendant and family.  Tragic for the persons who have to prosecute and defend.  Even more tragic when persons who have been victims themselves become the perpetrators.  Even more tragic still when things that are suposed to help people only end up making the situation so much worse.

My heart hurts for these folks.  But logic tells me that most of them actually did what they are accused of doing. What hurts is that so many of them have been so stripped of personal value and so morally degraded that they attach no value at all to their life or the lives of other people.  when that is the case, it just appears to us who are on the outside, that it was easy for them to kill.  Or, in some cases, they fight back with such overwhleming ferocity (sp?) that they lose control and kill by accident - or even worse, they over-kill on purpose. Odd concept, but it happens.  

Maybe some of you reading this might remember going to some place in your mind, escaping to a place where that wasn't filled with the negative Seed.  I gues we who were able to do that kind og escaping/traveling are the  lucky ones.  I've said it here before: No one is inherenetly bad and I really belive that - even guys like this.  something happened.  

I've had to "shut down" to make it through some expericences - especially later in my life when I was the victim in a physically, ect. abusive marriage.  It was only then, at that moment when I choose to walk away because some small inner voice told me that I had no ability to eract in-kind that I became afraid of what I could do.  nd - onlells you you can't react in kind - That's when I realized how close I'd been to crossing that line - how just one more little push could have made the difference.    

My professional work has helped move me away from that, but reading just this one excerpt brings it all back. Very chilling.  

Maybe based on my experiences I could be claimed as a Seed success, but I don't believe I'll allow them to take credit.  Afterall, if it wasn't for all of the stripping away expereiced in the program, I might have had enough of a sense of self to have made other choices in my life.  Any way, thanks be to the good powers in the world for sparing me and my baby from all that could have been.
Thanks, too Greg, for the oppotunity to tell my "success" story.  I didn't kill someone.      

T
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2004, 06:34:00 PM »
Actually, you being a lawyer will appreciate this case even more than most.  The testimony about the seed only came up in a hearing trying to communicate his sentence to life.  That is how I found it, and what really interests me is I have a vaque memory of him. He was in the St Pete seed.

I also read the case report and he looks guilty as hell.

The heading is a sarcastic (sorry but it is my nature) jab at Art's claimed 90% success ratio. By the Seed's standards, we are almost all failures, having drank and done drugs since graduating. Even some of the most rabid supporters here fess up to "struggling" with alcoholism and drugs after graduating which we all know takes you right out of the "successfull graduate" status. Yet Art AS EARLY AS LAST YEAR was saying the seed had a 90% success ratio.

Hell, I know almost no one that didn't do drugs or drink after the seed, or kill themselves or go to jail or screw up majorly somehow.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 10:26:00 AM »
Greg,
I'm with you on this subject.  That was the point of my spilling my guts - because that kind of emotional abuse and control makes for some very "edgy" people.  I don't have to fight every day to not do drugs.  Instead, I fight to overcome seed programming. I have accomplished so much in my life and yet I still feel empty - like somehow I'm faking my way through all this.      

The fact that I did not retaliate - BUT THAT I ACTUALLY CONTEMPLATED IT (and for what seemed like an eternity) that's what makes me know how diminished the seed programming made me. I'll bet there's many more marginal people out there who have thought there is something wrong with them because of Seed, Striaght - etc.    Truth is folks, there's nothing really wrong with any of us. These are learned patterns that were imposed from the outside in - completely external.

I'm hoping that with time I can overcome this programming as well.  Go through those grief statges for the loss of my inner self to some evil fucking people. I think now, after 32 years of denial, I've moved on to anger and it's okay. Those fucking people have destroyed lives and families.  They tried to destroy me and my brother.  We have worked so hard our entire lives to overcome that shit. We have experienced so much needless pain and turmoil because of that programming.  

Art Barker and his staff have emotionally crippled every person who ever came in contact with that fucking place.  Creating need where none existed before by  destroying confidence, self-respect and self-determination.  

Art Barker and those others - what fucking cruel people.  I hope his life, and all the lives of all others who supported that place, are very painful lives -  very long and very, very painful lives.

By the way, I guessing Art never visited/visits that fellow on death row...
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Offline Stripe

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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 11:59:00 AM »
I forgot to log in as well. That's me just above.
Thanks,
 Stripe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Robin Martin

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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 12:20:00 AM »
Quote
Art Barker and those others - what fucking cruel people.  I hope his life, and all the lives of all others who supported that place, are very painful lives -  very long and very, very painful lives.


If you look at it another way, you are still letting your past experiences control you and you've fought that war far too long.
Anon, get help - find peace.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bid you peace!

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 09:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-09 21:20:00, Robin Martin wrote
If you look at it another way, you are still letting your past experiences control you and you've fought that war far too long.

Anon, get help - find peace. "


And if you look at it in yet another way, this shit is STILL going on and we're trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else.

http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/curre ... ature.html

I'm not the anon you were speaking to but sorry, I can't 'find peace' knowing that kids are still being, ahem...."treated" this way.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2004, 09:19:00 AM »
Robin, if you knew more about who you were talking to, you wouldn't say that. Instead, you would find she is just now confronting what happened to her and working thru it. She is seeking help and peace...from within herself.

Your post was a little condensending I think.
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Offline Stripe

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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2004, 09:38:00 AM »
Well, actually, I expected a response like that from pro-seed people. I knew what I was laying myself open for when I wrote that.

I think I'm wise enough to spot the long term effects of programming in me and in others . It's a good thing I only look at this website during daylight hours otherwise it might have ruined what was otherwise a really peacful night.  If I wasn't further away from the programming and able to look at my life more objectively - even those very emotional and raw parts of my life, statements like that of Robin Martin would definitely hurt, cause me to withdraw, and doubt myself...but not any more.
Deprogramming is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

Love and peace to all of the angels out there who are looking out for each other.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2004, 10:45:00 AM »
On the other side, Stripe, I don't wish Art or any of them anything but the same peace I seek myself. In fact I would love to talk to any of them

Now that wasn't always true. I think once upon a time I would have danced on Art's  grave. Not now, I don't begrudge anyone anything anymore.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2004, 10:51:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-10 06:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-09 21:20:00, Robin Martin wrote
If you look at it another way, you are still letting your past experiences control you and you've fought that war far too long.


Anon, get help - find peace. "




And if you look at it in yet another way, this shit is STILL going on and we're trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else.



http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/curre ... ature.html



I'm not the anon you were speaking to but sorry, I can't 'find peace' knowing that kids are still being, ahem...."treated" this way."


That article fails to investigate properly where growing together of Lake Worth got its "techniques" and improperly credits George Ross and Miller Newton. Neither of these guys did anything but observe the Seedlings running the Straight group in St Petersburg and wrote down what they saw.

In other words, they plagarized Art's program and then added a little fluff to make it appear to be their own. Then they ran off and started their own little personality cults.

The modality that was the Seed and is in modern day "growing together", "kids helping Kids", "SAFE", "AARC" and others still in existence is a self perpetuating model.

This begs the question, who did Art Plagarize it from originally? I have a very hard time believing he started out in a house where people came and went freely, kind of hippy lovey dovey rehab, and rapidly within two years resulted in the facist program with strict and very effective mind control techniques that I was in in 1973 St Pete.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2004, 11:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-12-10 07:51:00, GregFL wrote:


This begs the question, who did Art Plagarize it from originally? I have a very hard time believing he started out in a house where people came and went freely, kind of hippy lovey dovey rehab, and rapidly within two years resulted in the facist program with strict and very effective mind control techniques that I was in in 1973 St Pete.  

"


It came from a combination of AA's 12 Steps and Chuck Dederich's Synanon.

http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2004, 11:03:00 AM »
A portion of that page:

Many people tried to emulate Synanon. Places like Daytop Lodge and Phoenix House in NYC. The most successful for kids-only Synanon follow-on was The Seed founded in June 1970 in Fort Lauderdale by the charismatic Art Barker. (Art had come from NYC). The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) was so impressed with The Seed that it gave Barker a $1 million grant. Drug Czar Robert DuPont led NIDA while Barker was being funded his grant money. Barker had visions of making Seeds all over the state of Florida and then all over the country. But in 1974 the US Senate published a study which accused The Seed of using methods which it likened to Communist brainwashing techniques. Besides this unwanted bad-press, The Seed was having other difficulties. The Senate was cracking down on NIDA in its consideration of a request from Barker for another cool million to expand his services throughout Florida. The Senate had told NIDA that Barker was doing human experimentations and that NIDA's own regulations required the people being experimented upon to sign statements of consent. And then there was the new host home regulations. The state of Florida's HRS had adopted a set of standards of how to regulate the host home element of The Seed and Barker said he had problems with those new regulations. Under the weight of all these problems Art Barker gave up on his expansion plans.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 11:11:00 AM »
Ah, but Anon, that website took their information from Wes Fagers Website. Wes Fager has long claimed a connection to Synanon but has been unable to make it.

To reiterate, to date NO CONNECTION has been made to the synanon.  NONE. The only thing we know is there is some commonality of technique and cultic language. Some of this commonality exists because the synanon was an offshoot of AA that went cult and Art Barker was a rabid AA guy.  This I know... Art Barker never attended the synanon. I know this almost to a certainty.  There is cirumstancial evidence that others brought the more rigid techniques and synanon style with them, but as of right now, as we write here, this is the biggest mystery in the whole history of the program...the biggest gaping hole so to speak.


So it still begs the question...how did it rapidly go from 1971...an open house hippy love fest rehab to what it was in 1973, a rigid mind control cult and the precursor to Straight, Inc.?

Also notable is that in 1974, after the NIDA grant was cancelled, the press started reporting on the techniques and giving press to the abuse charges, Art started slowly changing the program back and letting up on the techniques a bit, eventually turning away from treating minors.

 Was Bobbie Dupont resonsible for Art changing the program? Was it a deal where Dupont gave him the grant under the condition he start using the synanon techniques? Did Dupont also put a person in such as Cliff or Underwood that was familar with the synanon techniques? Cliff and John  were much older and different than almost anyone else there and I remember John talking about another place and saying something to the effect that "all this started at ...." but I can't remember the name and it is a very old memory which makes it rather muddy.

 Above is one theory I have, but honestly it is only a theory right now.

This is a very compelling question...one that I wish someone who really knew would answer.

John Underwood would be one I would think may have the answers. I sure wish he would show up here and let us know what he knows.
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