Author Topic: Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous  (Read 13969 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2004, 12:47:00 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The solution to end DWI's is simple.
Stop driving.  [addsig]

                         :idea:
We could ship the offenders to San Salvador. Drunk drivers there are shot dead on the spot.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2004, 02:57:00 AM »
Rehab bad, bad bad bad, ALL bad, any rehab BAD!
If they say it worked for them it didn't its all bad. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: good god give it a rest already
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Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2004, 07:30:00 AM »
Regarding the Jail-vs-AA dilema:

What I have never understood is that individuals are required to get signatures from AA members validating thier attendance.

If it were me, and I didnt want to attend meetings...I would simply belly up to the bar and have people sign the sheets...Seems pretty simple, but thats just me.

Wonder why more people haven't thought of that? Perhaps they hadn't gone thru Straight and learned the finer skills of deception, deceit and dishonesty.

I attended meetings for almost a year in an effort to stop drinking before I was mandated to attended AA meetings. I needed 45 (or some arcane number) signatures. I had the signatures in about 48 hours.

It worked.

BTW, I haven't drank since my last binge 7 years ago...My attendance in AA has been minimal this time around. I was sober 5 years prior to that last binge, returning to the fold I quickly learned that some folks in AA avoided me like the plague. So much for the "fellowship" being based on inclusion rather than exclusion.

Just my experience.
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2004, 07:39:00 AM »
It is clear to me that many here have not actually been to a meeting, or at least not in awhile. Through your depictions, I am picturing a sort of leader guy teaching everyone that they will experience jails, institutions or death if they refuse to evangelize the unsuspecting innocent suffering.

This is just not how it is, but I am realizing as I type this that there is no way to prove this to you...and frankly no reason.

No, there's no hard data...AA has no opinion on that. There's nothing to prove. If it helps, come, if not...go. AA is not Borg, jeez.
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2004, 12:37:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-18 14:20:00, shady grove wrote:

"Who's "they"? I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next, but there really isin't an individual or group that is benefitting/profitting from all this groupthink shame-based brainwashing.
Bill Wilson's widow makes six-figures annually in royalties from the "The Big Book".  

Quote



There is no man behind the curtain folks.

(hey, another wizard of oz reference-I swear I didn't plan that)

There may not be a conscious conspiracy, but the powerful and lucrative Treatment Industry behaves as if there were.  Stepcraft is practiced and encouraged in nearly every public treatment facility in the United States, and in most of the private ones, too.  The Stepcult has become part and parcel of many "drug court" programs, with required attendence at Stepcult religious services (AA/NA meetings)being an integral part of many pre-trial programs and probation conditions.  This is a clear violation of Separation of Church and State.


Quote

I really think it's a shame that straight left such a bad taste in so many peoples' mouths about 12 step groups-they really have nothing in common with each other. Straight tried to ride on there coat tails, and b/c of the fact that there are no leaders in AA, no one could tell them not to. AA simply has no opinion."


"No leaders in AA?"  Then why the cult of personality around Bill Wilson and "Dr. Bob"? Or the elevated stature of the "oldcomers", I mean,  "Sponsors"? Not to mention the "old-timers" at meetings that are lurking, waiting to "13th Step" new recruits, particularly the young, attractive female ones?

Let's face it-- AA/NA/Stepcraft are CULTS, pure and simple.  Maybe not as immediately or acutely destructive to the individuals involved as was Straight, but cults nonetheless, and possibly more dangerous to society as a whole simply because they are more accepted and widespread.
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2004, 12:45:00 PM »
I've got more than a few problems with this cult that has endeared itself to so many people. Other people on this forum have elaborated on a few of the major ones, but I want to bring up a couple more: The fallacy that a person must "hit bottom" and the almost complete monopoly on treatment options that these cults enjoy. Like I said in another post, the book "12 Spells and 12 Superstitions" teaches the potential oldcomer, I mean sponsor, to encourage anyone who is having a hard time swallowing Stepcraft to continue drinking/drugging until they "hit bottom" and see the glorious light of the almighty Program. I believe this has caused much needless suffering. When you combine those kind of instructions with Stepcraft's insistence that they are the "only" way, and add a person's ignorance of other treatment possibilities (an ignorance reinforced by the Stepcult's infiltration of and virtual monopoly on the treatment industry), you have a recipe for suffering or death, in which case the deceased will serve as a grim reminder of what happens to those who don't "do it the NA way". You see, when people are at the point where they are seeking help for addiction, they are generally in a confused and vulnerable state. Mistakenly believing groupsters to be "experts" on "recovery", these people, although realizing the bullshit nature of Stepcraft, may still believe some of the other lies the Stepcult has to offer, and believe that their demise is inevitable because they can't or won't follow what they have been led to believe is the "only" alternative to "jails, institutions and death". The Stepcult is rigged with nifty little self-fulfilling prophecies and inherent contradictions--it cares only for it's own growth and nothing for it's individual members. It often harms those it claims to be designed to help.
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Offline PerfectStraightling

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« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »
My experience (and I went for over 2 years) WAS that they thought they were the only way, even if they did say "AA is not for everyone." Because I think they would follow this up with something like, it's only for people who want to live "in the sunshine of the spirit" or for those who want to be "happy joyous and free," or for those who have hit rock bottom---implying you needed to go out and drink some more before you would be ready to come back. People would always talk about how they thought people they worked with needed to go to 12-step meetings just because they obviously had "issues" and that they felt sorry for "normal" people who didn't have a 12-step group. I really wished I had been in a group that wasn't like this, that was more open-minded, it would have saved me a LOT of anguish. I realize now that I am much happier not going and that I can think more clearly and be more accepting of my emotions.
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Offline Sophie

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« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2004, 08:40:00 PM »
RTP- please cite your source on the "Bill Wilson's Widow" thing.

Thanks.
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Offline Cleopatra2U

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2004, 12:03:00 AM »
I
Quote
Think AA is good for people who like it and not for people who don't


My opinion is shaped by all of my life experiences, including Straight.  

Based on my life experiences, I think that recovery is similar to alcohol and drugs in that if you are using it, then it's fine, but if it is using you, then you are in a world of sh!t.  Just like alcoholics and drug addicts aren't likely to tell you to quit using even if it's hurting you, steppers aren't likely to tell you quit going to meetings even if it's hurting you.  In the end, YOU are the one who must make decisions for and by YOURSELF.  If you're uncomfortable doing something, then don't do it.
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he trouble with trouble is it starts out as fun.

Offline mental torture made me li

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« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2004, 12:57:00 PM »
it just was, when I went. I went for five years after Straight. Towards the end I started understanding the cultish aspects of it and then I could not not see it.

I finally drank again, and smoked some marijuana. That was a good decision. I'm not "addicted", and I don't need to waste my time at those meetings. I am glad to have my mental space back.[ This Message was edited by: Pietra on 2004-12-12 02:26 ]
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Offline Cleopatra2U

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2004, 02:04:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-21 09:57:00, Pietra wrote:

"I finally drank again, and smoked some marijuana. That was a good decision. I'm not "addicted", and I don't need to waste my time at those meetings. I am glad to have my mental space back."


Hear, hear!    :tup:
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he trouble with trouble is it starts out as fun.

Offline Tony Stark

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2004, 12:13:00 AM »
It's just some form of catholisim.quite human in it's invention and creates false awareness. I can drink if I choose. I don't have to even try to be moderate. I'm not addicted to alcohol. I just like being sober-minded, not because of AA.

What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult.
-- Sigmund Freud

[ This Message was edited by: Admiral Nelson on 2004-11-21 21:21 ]
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Offline Antigen

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Poll about Alcoholics Anonymous
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2004, 05:20:00 PM »
Art, the cultic thing about many AA groups is how they go about making people think they need and want it.

And I've got decades on ya', friend. My grandfather was one of the original professional alcoholics, starting just after the great Stock Market crash. AA has been an unwelcome part of my life since before I was born.

Besides, every court that has ever examined the question has ruled that AA is a religion for purposes of the protection clause. I hope that, eventually, that becomes common knowledge so that bone headed judges will quit ordering people to attend and that vulnerable people will know that they have some legal recourse if they do.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2004, 09:48:00 PM »
Do you know the origins of AA and where it came from? Why do the secular churches refer to it as "the grapevine"? If you've ony been in AA for 3 years your foolish laughter would tell me a false awareness.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2004, 09:51:00 PM »
Do you know the origins of AA and where it came from? Why do the secular churches refer to it as "the grapevine"? If you've ony been in AA for 3 years your foolish laughter would tell me a false awareness. And not a very sober mind.
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