Author Topic: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER  (Read 89153 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #225 on: February 02, 2005, 05:35:00 PM »
another good reason for not mentioning names are the legal ramifications of such.  

But, i would like to say, I went up to visit the school here recently and I arrived way ahead of schedule.  rather than callign someone, i just walked in the front door and began looking around the building, i saw the kids working, i saw some of the staff, and it all appeared as it should be...and this was an unexpected visit...no one knew i was coming and no one knew i was watching.  not saying it doesnt happen, just saying on an unannounced visit and walk through the school, i saw nothing out of the ordinary other than what was supposed to be going on in the boot camp, they were working the cadets, i.e. situps, thrusts, etc.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #226 on: February 02, 2005, 05:50:00 PM »
Remember there's 4 levels to the program and the boot campers get maximum supervision.This is where most of the abuse goes on. By the time you're in junior staff stasis you have all sorts of freedom to do the things you want to do. After all you're an unpaid staff. If you think about it it's quite clever of the Bundys to use students for staff. It saves money on payroll.From what I understand it was junior staff who were keeping watch on the Reyes boy while he was in isolation being punished for non compliance-dying. These poor kids have to live with this for the rest of there lives and in reality they didn't do anything wrong. They're just innocent kids. Well it sickens me to think about this. Kids being forced to abuse other kids is almost the worst thing they do at this place.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #227 on: February 02, 2005, 06:14:00 PM »
Nobody is suggesting that kids are being abused every minute of everyday and of course they knew you were there. They have full surveylance they have a small surveylanve room and somebody sits in there with a hand held radio and can talk to anybody else who works there at any time. They probably saw you pull up on the monitor and I'm not even suggesting that they were abusing a kid  at that precise time but I am suggesting that they stopped doing anything that they were doing that might appear inappropriate and even probably pretended that they didn't know you were there as to appear caught off guard as any master of manipulation and deception would do. I also might add that there are many monitors in the surveylance room as there are cameras everywhere. I guess is that they saw you pull up in the driveway. Sorry but your story while I do believe you, does not reassure me in the least.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #228 on: February 03, 2005, 09:50:00 AM »
i am very aware of the security room.  i have seen it, and every time i have seen it, it was locked and no one was in there, so no....it is inaccurate to say they monitor the camaras all the time and talk to others "on the radio".  my goodness, you make it sound like it is a conspiracy people.  It is "bootcamp" and yes, bootcamp is not meant to be easy, that is why people choose to send their children to bootcamp.  I am sure you probably have drill instructors that are a bit more "gungho" than others, but it is that way in every day life, including your public schools, the jobs we work in, everywhere.  You simply CANNOT control everything every person does, unfortunately.  All you can do is remedy the situations when such situations are discovered.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #229 on: February 03, 2005, 10:16:00 AM »
No, it is not "boot camp."

Real boot camp is run by the armed services to train soldiers.

The armed services actively screen out people with mental illnesses from going to boot camp in the first place, and if they find out, as they do fairly regularly, that someone somehow got through the screening and does have a mental illness, they discharge that person "for the good of the service" with no black mark on that person's record and send them home.

Real boot camp run by the real professionals recognizes that the harsh methods and deliberate mental stresses used are totally inappropriate to someone who is mentally ill.

Real boot camp run by the real professionals tests new recruits coming in the door to see if they are in good enough physical condition to start bootcamp.  If they are *not*, they get diverted to a pre-boot-camp that gets them in shape for boot camp at a measured, healthy pace designed by some of the best sports medicine professionals in the world to get them in condition for boot camp without causing them permanent injury.  The whole drill instructor mind game is not played in the pre-boot-camp when they're getting the out of shape recruits ready for boot camp.

Real boot camp is run by trained professionals---not just any old retired soldier, or even any old retired NCO.  Real boot camp is *designed* by the best minds in a large national armed service with a lot more institutional experience and institutional history than any Program "boot camp" out there, and with a lot more ability to follow the new soldiers after they get *out* of boot camp so that if something starts to go wrong at boot camp, the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines know about it right away and can fix it.

Real boot camp may not be perfect, but it is a much more professional and finely tuned process than the half-assed imitations running out there with real live kids, many of them known to be mentally ill, thrown in as human guinea pigs in what is the modern equivalent of the old Patent Medicine Show con.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #230 on: February 03, 2005, 10:59:00 AM »
are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.

I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #231 on: February 03, 2005, 04:20:00 PM »
Except for getting into shape and learning how to withstand a barrage of verbal and emotional attack, just WHAT exactly is a bootcamp going to do, short of scaring them into not wanting to go back?

Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline BB

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« Reply #232 on: February 03, 2005, 07:50:00 PM »
Everyone especially including former studens whether boys or girls need to speak to your parents and tell them the truth about what you have witnessed at TLC.  The truth needs to come out and it will if we all come together and join and make the Bundy's accountable for their actions. The entire staff seems to be related to each other and they all cover up for each other. Isn't that what families are about. One thing I would like to know is the so called "inspirational tapes" were Joseph Smith which is Morman in origin.  Why wasn't this not told or our consent given to have them listen to this.  What research to the Bundy's have that their strict abuse helps our teenagers.  I regret sending my child their and will always live with the hurt and pain that the Bundy's and their Parent Help staff caused my family.  What research has the Bundy's done to prove that their method helps our teenagers.  I have research several other schools and schools like TLC are required by law to be licensed and they have to follow strict guidelines.  Why do you think that the Bundy's went to Missouri, because they knew that the State didn't require this and that is how they get away with what they are doing.  Why did the kids have to "close their eyes and put their heads down" when other kids were being hurt or "taken down". Why wasn't their a doctor on staff or on call for our kids. Why didn't they take the Reyes boy to see a doctor?  Why did he have to die to bring this place to light?  My heart goes out the them and I thank God that I picked up my son before this happened to him. We need all of you out their to come together and find a Hotline to report the Bundy's.  The reason why is all the stories are consistent and the truth has to come out.  The entire town of Hamilton, and surrounding little town, including law enforcements are supporting the Bundy's, Why because the Bundy's fund the town with our money. Like dirty cops. If you are an employee of the Bundy's who was let go becuase you didn't beleive in what they were doing then you need to speak up. The law enforcement in Hamilton make me sick because they are suppose to serve and protect everyone not just the ones who give them money.
I love my child and wanted help and was a very upset and confused parent and they took advantage of that and used that to their advantage and took my money.
I regret what I have done and my child has nightmares and beleive me your child needs to get this out in the open and maybe if we come together and make them accountable for what they have done and are still continuing to do we can rest with peace of mind.
Sincerely submitted
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #233 on: February 03, 2005, 08:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-03 07:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.



I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!"


Children aren't property.

NIMH has released a statement saying boot camps do not help mentally ill teens and in many cases harm them.

I'm not willing to let you send mentally ill children to one, either.  I want the laws changed so that if you do, not only will Child Protective Services go get the child and place him or her in foster care getting the mental health care he or she needs, I *also* want them to prosecute you and send you to jail.

This isn't just about your personal behavior or my personal behavior.  This is about wantonly and willfully putting mentally ill children in reckless and needless danger of further damage and harm.

*You* go to a boot camp if *you* want to go to one.  They make them as fantasy camp experiences for adults--kindof like dude ranches give a cowboy experience.

*I* will go or not, as *I* choose.

But if you try to send your children to one, knowing one or more kids you're sending is mentally ill, I want you put in jail.

You get freedom over your personal behavior, even if you might harm yourself by bungee jumping or scuba diving or motorcycling or eating twinkies or whatever.

You *don't* get freedom over harmful or recklessly negligent stuff you do to another person.

Having a child means you're *responsible* for caring for that child and providing for his basic needs until he's grown.

It doesn't mean you're his owner and privileged to do whatever *to* him against his will that you damned well please, no matter how damaging or injurious it is to him.

Knowingly put a mentally ill kid in a boot camp, or knowingly keep one there, go to jail.

That's what I want.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #234 on: February 03, 2005, 08:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-03 07:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.



I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!"


It sounds like you don't know jack shit about the military.

Frequently, if a proven combat veteran *becomes* mentally ill in the military, they'll treat it and keep the soldier on.

The military doesn't want mentally ill people subjected to the stresses of boot camp or the stresses of combat because they can go apeshit with no damned warning and kill themselves or other people.

And because the stresses further damage them and make them *more* disabled and more of a drain on the military's resources to care for them.

As we'd say where I grew up, you're skinning your ignorance.

Timoclea
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Offline Mrs. Doubtfire

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« Reply #235 on: February 03, 2005, 09:14:00 PM »
I am so sorry you are suffering, but know that you and your son are on a better road now that he is out of TLC; and any thing and any place is better than where he was. Thank all the dieties, if you believe in them, that you came to your senses and listened to your gut sooner than later.  I too have asked why there is so much rhetoric on these sites and not more substantial action taken when everyone seems to be aware of the horrific abuses inflicted on our children at this and other dungeons.  Perhaps those who were the true victims and recipients of the violence don't know where to go; don't want to remember; are in fear from the abusers threats and their "long arm of abuses", or feel like "I got out and everyone else is on their own".  Until we walk in their shoes we cannot comment on their actions or inaction. It is just that after so much abuse, in so many different faciities, in so many states and countries you would think that the oppressed would join forces and defeat the wretched people. There are organizations, assocations, fraternities around the country that hold annual meetings, trade shows. Can you imagine if the abused gathered together and had a "million person march on St. George, Utah world headquarters of WWASP, with a couple ancillary marches on CEDU, Thayer and Aspen? What a delicious thought. After all, David did kill Goliath, so we can still hope.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #236 on: February 03, 2005, 10:25:00 PM »
I was hoping Ivan would demolish Tranquility Bay. I have NEVER before (and hopefuly never again) cheered on a hurricane... unless one happens to be staring down the sights at a BM facility.

Yeah, a survivor/activist/parent march would be divine, but they'd just pull in their political and police connections to stop it.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #237 on: February 04, 2005, 01:42:00 AM »
Hi this is Cadet Ramirez again or should I call myself Julia? I guess I do have a name afterall.It's just that everyday I remember more things that happened at Thayer. One evening we were cleaning our bins and a cadet whos name I won't mention started having an attack where she couldn't breathe. A sergeant told her to go lay down and left her there for about 2 hours. Drill sergeant Pikula came in and got really upset.She seemed scared for the cadet. I think it was Ms. Dorthy who took her to the dr. and she was diagnosed with asthma. When the cadet got back she told me that she thought she was going to die laying there.I wish I could remember the sergeants name who left her laying there but I just can't. They rotate so frequently. The weird thing is that this happened 2 days before Roberto Reyes died. Seems like it should have been a sign to take better care of us and not let us die. I'm sure this happening can be confirmed because she went to the hospital or somewhere for medical treatment. I'm not going to tell the name of the girl because she is still there and it's not her fault that I'm writing this and she shouldn't get into trouble because of me. It just really scared a bunch of us. We were crying because we were so scared for her. I'll write more if I remember anything. You can e-mail me at bootcampprincess14@yahoo.com I was at Thayer from 9-27-04 to 1-16-05 when my wonderful mother came to her senses and rescued me. She came and took me out of The Bundy Burning Boiller. If you want my whole story go back to 17 or 18 and I wrote most of my experience on there. I do remember more all the time though. I have nightmares sometimes that my mommy is dragging me back to Thayer by my hair and I'm naked. It's one of those dreams where i'm already back at Thayer but she's trying to get me there. In my dream I can see all the people there but I can't recognize most of them. When I wake up it disturbes me for a minute and then I realize that I'm not at thayer but I'm in my bed at home and I go back to sleep. I think it helps that my sisters sleep with me and I leave my door open. I don't think I could go to sleep without my little sisters. I'm sure that I would have more nightmares if they weren't there.I feel like I need a counselor to help. I don't think the same way I thought before I wen't to Thayer and that's not a good thing. At first my thoughts scared me but i've become used to them. I'm not going to share them because people might think I'm crazy. I will say that I never thought about these types of things before I went to Thayer. It actually makes me feel better to write this stuff down. I wish they would have let us use the journals they were suppose to let us have at Thayer. Having a diary has always helped me deal with life and at Thayer yuo're never allowed to write or talk about your feelings. It would be considered manipulation and you would be told to suck up your drama. I can hear it right now,"SUCK UP YOUR DRAMA CADET RAMIREZ" "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PROBLEMS" I hate these people. What would I be like if I'd been left there for a year? Maybe I would be beyond repair mentally. A model child. A yes mam no mam type but angry and hateful on the inside. I won't be surprised if someday a kid from thayer becomes some sort of a serial killer or something crazy because I feel a lot of rage that needs to come out from that place and that was in 4 months. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I'm a pisces birth sign and some say I'm just to sensitive others say I'm a big manipulator (Thayer} Well maybe my mommy will get me some counseling and I can start dealing with it better. Iknow i'm big to call her mommy but it's a habit I can't seem to break. Well I feel better after sharing more of my story. I have a really great home school program and my teacherhas me write about my experiences. I think he might think it helps. The home school program wants me to get counseling so I can recover they said. Well i'm tired so see you later,Julia. I use my name by the way just to let the Bundys know that I'm not a bit affraid of them. Come after me Bundy Bitch and see what you get on my turf.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #238 on: February 04, 2005, 07:39:00 PM »
hahhahaha i love it
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Offline Mrs. Doubtfire

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« Reply #239 on: February 04, 2005, 10:58:00 PM »
Nihl.... Perhaps, but the politico's and police didn't stop Martin Luther King or Women's Movement to get the right to vote, or the general public's demand in repealing prohibition.  When you get enough people behind something that is good and right, it can even bring down a President (remember Nixon?)

Most of us think our one voice in the darkness won't be heard, but put my voice together with yours and others, and you have one helluva choir!  Places like Thayer, CEDU,Tranquility Bay et. al are allowed to thrive because they have no opposition.

We have this forum and ISAC and a few other smaller, less organized venues; perhaps sending a donation to these organizations - who do amazing work in keeping these issues in front of the media - would be a way to start. If everyone who came to these boards just sent $1.00, it would help. There are fan clubs for entertainers and others that are better organized and raise more money than our advocates appear to have achieved. Can't we help them?

I would just like to read that after a few more of these places close down, the rest of them are so fearful of retaliation and retribution, they implode.  

It has to be a concerted effort because they have deep pockets. For a few of us to stand outside the St. George, Utah headquarters of WWASP is like trying to stop the "johns" from soliciting prostitutes in the seedy side of town with a flashlight and a sign saying "shame on you". It won't make much of an impact. But get a couple hundred of us together and you've got national news coverage.

Do you realize that at Thayer alone, they have approximatly 100 "inmates", @ $4000/per month, per student that is $400,000 a month or $5.4 million dollar a year. That's just one dungeon!!!!! Multiply that by the number of dungeons out there and you can see how they have the dollars to contribute to the power brokers.

They steal the new recruits clothing, bedding, personal hygiene products, so all they have to do is feed them that swill they call food. No medical attention, no nurse/doctor, no teachers salary, no books, no school supplies, no psychologist, no drug counselling, no soap or water for bathing or laundry. They hired a bunch of society rejects,never do a back ground check on these employees, are they pedophiles? sadist? do they have police records? educated, have expertise or experience in child behavorial issues? Then pay them $8 an hour and turn them loose on our children to admonish them, belittle them, beat the spirit out of them, prevent them from furthering their education, deny them medical attention and if they get lucky, kill one of them and not have to go to jail for it.

They do have the additional cost of paying off the local constables and town folks. Not a bad return on their investment for the slave labor of their own recruits.  

I suppose I am just a pollyanna and believe that good should always overcome evil, and children shouldn't die in filthy, dark holes lying not on a warm blanket, but in their own excrement, a thousand miles away from their families.

I have great difficulty with that imagine; it haunts me and my heart breaks for his family. Their pain must be excruciating and their sorrow inconsolable.
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