graduate status

[Anonymous]

Call it what ever you like. I believe that the origins of the group were true and sound, if later it was perverted, than that is a different story and we can discuss this on another post..
 Being objective as possible

 Remember something: The primary function of the Seed, its basis and origins was to get people off drugs and alcohol (people that have an overwhelming problem) and the only way to accomplish this by one relinquishing control for a while of their life. For this to work one must be aware that one has a problem that is too big for them to handle on their own. Why not rely on people that have fought the same demon..
 I have met many people who tried thru therapy and other methods to stop their destructive behavior with no measurable results taking them only to greater depths of despair..

  I suspect judging by your post and others that programs like the Seed were used as cure alls for teenagers and people that really should not have been exposed to such things. (Kind of like killing a rat with an elephant gun).  You will also find that people who were exposed to the Seed in their teenage years will defend the Seed and it?s methods.

[Anonymous]

Anon,
We know who you are and we are watching you.

BIG BROTHER

[Anonymous]

Hey Gregg being that you asked and do like and respect you even though we don?t always see eye to eye and Taking into account these are things I?m still working on.

I will give you some examples of things I decided to discard.
1- I had to open my self to people outside the Seed take chances with them and begin to fit back into a normal life. I can understand what you said a previous post that it took you about 7 years. After all I did control my drug problem and now it was my time to move on.
2- I did see adoration toward Art as strange and cultic. (Even back then)
3-I did not want to rely on staff to make my decisions I wanted to make my own decisions and did.
4-I felt at this point I would grow more living a normal life than to stay at the Seed.
5-I never liked being so one-sided on or give the prescribed answers. So I found my own solutions and understandings based on what I was taught at the Seed.
6-Most importantly- I wanted to get laid and did but that?s another story

[cleveland]

I especially like point no. 6!

Seriously, I think clearing everything with staff, even if it was not meant to inhibit you, did just that. I mean, it was one thing when you were around for a month and might go off and buy a joint or something, but then this attitude just took on a life of it's own.

If you were a long-time graduate, sure, you could do 'whatever you wanted to' but there was a lot of subtle and not so subtle pressure to do and not do, certain things. For instance, quite aside from the dating thing, when I entered the Seed I had attended college for one year previous, and was a straight A student. I'd even had a paper published in a professional journal. But all that was part of 'being into my head' and 'getting my head out of whack' so instead, I worked as a ditch digger, carpenter's assistant, landscaper, printer's helper, medical tech. NOBODY ever asked me or encouraged me to grow - when I discussed going back to school, the staff member gave me a funny look (Bob W.) and later, Patty H. was called in to tell me, "all artists are weird and don't you think that's more of a girl thing?" (I wanted to study art). Hey, when I was taking advanced placement Art History in high school, I was one of the top five students in the country! But I didn't want to be thought of as being better than anyone else, and I was insecure, so I dropped it. I didn't go back to school until I left the Seed at age 26. As I write this I realize I'm bitter about it. I'm fine now but I spent 7 years of my life just doing Seed-approved things like playing football all day or sitting in a rap for hours. The things I really wanted to do had zero credibility with the staff. I didn't read a serious book (or any book), go to a dance or concert, date, travel (accept to visit family for limited periods), form friends outside of the Seed, study any subject of any kind, or anything else for that matter. 7 YEARS!

Phew, I feel better. And I got laid too. And that is a different story.

[cleveland]

You know what else? One of my favorite movies is about an old fashioned, close-knit but patriarchal family. Dad rules the roost. There are two brothers - one the serious, obedient older son, the other the younger playboy. Everything's cool until a long-lost uncle visits, bringing the old family secrets out of the closet and upsetting the balance. All hell breaks loose, the sons fight, the Dad suffers an illness. Peace is restored once the Uncle dies - but everyone is forever changed. The brothers, one that always did whatever dad said, and the other who always rebelled, have come to an understanding.

I loved this movie for years and I now realize that it's kind of a metaphor for the Seed - the benevolent but rigid dad, the good son who stays around, the rebel who leaves, and the uncle, in the form of temptation, who upsets everything but ultimately causes growth.

Sorry for the sophmore year college paper, but the movie's called "To Sleep with Anger" by Charles Burnett. [ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2004-10-26 17:29 ]

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-26 14:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

WOW!!! this shit sounds like BIG BROTHER at his finest, especially the part about "The Seed was always careful of how people were doing" not even the religious cult i was involved in was this scary. eeeechhh!!

Indeed, it was! Till I was around 13 years old, I had to attend open meetings with my mother. It wasn't much worse than church services or political activities when I was really young. But as I got older, it was pure torture.

One of the reasons why they were so careful about how everyone was doing was that, like any insular community, they feared outside influence more than anything. Everyone present had to be either 100%, cheefully, entheusiastically supportive of the doctrine and methods of the Program (Art, essentially) or be condemned or be banished.

So, they always had a sort of guard at the gate, usually a young man or two on their program, and another checkpoint at the door, usually upper staff.

Every Friday night, as we got closer to the building, my heart sunk further into the pit of my stomach. Every week, I dreded that Art or Shelly or Libby or some other staffer was going to decide that I didn't "look good" (happy to see them, well rested, God forbid my eyes were red, etc.) and I'd land up on front row before the evening was out. Every friend I tried to make, my mother suspected them of being a druggie and I didn't dare challenge her on it.

To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.

[Somejoker]

"Hey Gregg being that you asked and do like and respect you even though we don?t always see eye to eye and Taking into account these are things I?m still working on."



your welcome and I respect you too, but someone else asked that.

However, you said "teenager who went to the seed will defend it"

Yep, SOME of them, and the ones that do all sound exactly the same...lets see..They would be dead without the seed..before the seed they were worthless and now they are great.  blah blah. Same old same old.

At least with the critics we all have unique stories to tell.

Another thing, many many kids went to the seed, got out, the seed left town and they really never had a lot of issues to deal with and NEVER REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE PROCESSES TO WHICH THEY WERE SUBJECTED TO. They only parrot what they were told so many years ago, that they were worthless and dying before the seed and now that is not true.  Balderdash I say!

Further, I think that you can justify all day long why at age 30  8 years after graduating a drug rehab you need permission to date, to marry and to go to a concert, why people are dressing like the leader and claiming he can read minds, and asking permission to get a job or go to school,but to the rest of the world it sounds creepy and cultic...because it is.


But I still respect those that support it even if sometimes it is hard for me to understand. I do try very hard to put myself in your place when some long termer or supporter posts tho.


[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-10-26 19:14 ]

[Somejoker]

And ANON, you are asking a lot of questions of us.  I think it is time you tell us a little about the religious cult you were in....tit for tat.

[Somejoker]

On 2004-10-26 15:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

  You will also find that people who were exposed to the Seed in their teenage years will defend the Seed and it?s methods.

"

I was, and I don't..and neither do many that were there, including many that were "long termers".  I guess that is a term we are gonna adopt on this board to describe those there for years and years in the 80s and 90s.

[marshall]

Reading minds? Yeah, I had forgotten about that. Does anyone remember art and staff talking about being able to see colored auras around people? I often saw auras BEFORE I went to the seed. Acid tends to do that. :silly:  

A couple of years after I graduated my program, a friend wanted to put her son into the seed. She was in her late fifties and a single working mother. Her 14 year old son was having lots of attitude problems, minor trouble with the law, drinking and smoking some pot. She knew about the seed from my experience and asked me to call them about putting her son on the program. The only problem was money. She was a factory worker with very limited means. I assured her that money woudn't be an issue. (I had yet to sort out my own feelings about the seed and still had a rosey view of the program in many ways) Surely the seed wouldn't disqualify anyone for lack of funds.

 I called and spoke with Libby. I explained my friends situation fully and suggested that she would be able to make a down payment and then make payments for her son to enter the program. I was shocked by Libby's response. Libby flatly refused to take her son without full payment up front. I think it was $5,000 at that time. There was no way this lady could get that kind of money.

Looking back, I consider this fortunate for her son. He grew up, married, had kids, quit drugs and rarely even drinks a beer. But this really caused me to further question the seed. It seems that money was a primary motivation.

[Robin Martin]

Actually, I remember quite well seeing "auras" around people after staying clean for an amount of time.  I also experienced a kind of "Clairvoyancey" which I had no control over and freaked out my friends at the time.  I credit this extrodinary sensitivity to having a clean body and mind and rising to another plateau of spirituality.  I remember being at a "Seed party" totally clean, and being able to 'hear' all conversations in the room. Of course, it was telepathically relayed to me and was very strange.  I didn't know how to handled it so I just shared the experience w/ my very good friends.  I was able to quote extraneous conversations verbatim.  This was not always a pleasant experience when I heard someone speaking of me in a negative sense but there wasn't much I could do about it because I had no control and never learned HOW to control it.  But, the gift (?) lasted about 3 mos. and seemed to disapate as quickly as it manifested.

[Robin Martin]

Incidentally, forgot to reply re: the suggested program donation to the Seed...  My mom DID NOT have the money required and the Seed took me on a "Sliding Scale" basis based on my Mom's income. They (the Seed) NEVER asked for more than my Mom could provide.  So, once again, I guess, as a totally f****d up teenager, I considered this my LAST saving grace and give thanks to those at the Seed that allowed me to continue (regardless of my financial situation)

[Anonymous]

On 2004-10-30 00:00:00, Robin Martin wrote:

"Actually, I remember quite well seeing "auras" around people after staying clean for an amount of time.  I also experienced a kind of "Clairvoyancey" which I had no control over and freaked out my friends at the time.  I credit this extrodinary sensitivity to having a clean body and mind and rising to another plateau of spirituality.  I remember being at a "Seed party" totally clean, and being able to 'hear' all conversations in the room. Of course, it was telepathically relayed to me and was very strange.  I didn't know how to handled it so I just shared the experience w/ my very good friends.  I was able to quote extraneous conversations verbatim.  This was not always a pleasant experience when I heard someone speaking of me in a negative sense but there wasn't much I could do about it because I had no control and never learned HOW to control it.  But, the gift (?) lasted about 3 mos. and seemed to disapate as quickly as it manifested. "

Holy shit Robin you bought the crap hook line and sinker.

See a pyscologist.

[godspeed!]

But, the gift (?) lasted about 3 mos. and seemed to disapate as quickly as it manifested.


was this a gift THEY gave you or do you now know that it is a gift from within? a gift which you can cultivate for yourself through various spiritual practices... all of which are seeds for the masses.

[Tony Stark]

To me I thought it meant I just didn't have to come back. I didn't. The Dunedin click still fucked with my head good. Glad to be rid of the whole bunch. :smokin:

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

Yeah well you know sometimes these damned wars never seem to end either. That doesn't keep me up at night..Shit I'll g down with all of ya if I have to. I'm not a traitor
_________________
"It's a Secular Crime to Mankind, something they've been speculating too long" :smokin: