The Truth about these Schools (New Parents Please Read)

[Brown]

I do respect your view.  I have said all along that I don't agree with all of what the program says.  I too, know that there is some things that could be changed for the better.  And for the life of me, I don't understand why they don't let investigators come in.  It really doesn't make sense to me.(And please don't tell me it is because of the abuse).  I admit that there might have been abuse years back.  I don't know, i had no association back then.  But unfortunatly for these places because of their past they now have a reputation.  I think that there does need to be some modifications made.  But I just don't know that they need to be made on a very wide scale.

[cherish wisdom]

Brown - Many of us are extremely qualified to make posts regarding the abuse of the teen-industry. It is well known and there are thousands of professional sourses indicating that abuse occurs.  The Assistant Attorney General of Missisippi gave a harrowing account of child abuse and maltreatment entitled "Missisippi Gulags" that can be found on http://www.teenliberty.org.  The Americal Association of Psychiatric Nurses has also condemned many of the teen-help practices as cruel and untherapeutic.  There are hundreds of other professional accounts and articles writted by journalists. My favorite is entitled, "Desparate Measures."  I'd like to add that the administrator of WWASP's Tranquituility Bay (I think it was Ken Kay) told a British reporter from the guardian that the longest a child had been in isolation "on their face" was 18 months.  I can't a more horrible "punishment" for non-compliance.  It is outrageous to treat any human being like that. Frankly, Brown, I don't believe you were a patient - I think you're either an employee or a program parent.  Your style of writing indicates that you are obviously in the over-30 crowd.  I think you folks at Spring Creek are just doing some damage control after driving a depressed child to suicide by isolation in the dank observation room.......Sorry - that's my opinion of you......

Don't hate the media. Become the media

--Jello Biafra

[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-10-15 14:46 ]

[Anonymous]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=7#64220

[BuzzKill]

Cherish, It was Pepper Spray Jay who bragged the record for OP/ "on her face" was 18 months.
It was Ken who said they had a bunch of untrained staff and that no one knew what harm they might be doing. Its in the Desperate Measures article.
Jay Kay is the owner and director of Tranquility Bay; and the son of Ken Kay, the current president of wwasp.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-10-12 09:03:00, Deborah wrote:

"

My dear,

You obviously have not read all the posts at Fornits, as you claim, or you'd know that I have direct experience and knowledge of the industry.

With two sons who were harmed- one resulted in a lawsuit that we won, a neighbor who died in a program, a friend who was abused, and numerous other aquaintences who had nothing but negative experiences; I feel more than qualified to warn other parents of the potential dangers inherent to the industry.



You would be wise to share your experience and lay off judging others. You will not silence the voice of those who have been harmed.

"

Deborah, this is from a graduate student of Spring Creek Lodge, not your child's program.  No one has ever proven abuse in a WWASPS program.  People are not stupid. People that do have an experience can agree with all, some, little or none of it.  Let each individual make and draw their own conclusions.   Finding it "dangerous" reflects your world view.  People all over the world that come from a wide variety of backgrounds, education and beliefs will disagree with you.

What IS judgmental and demeaning are your remarks about those who hold beliefs and world views that are different from yours.  Dangerous as you and others claim? It's dangerous to walk the path of "telling" people you have a superior view. Are you justifying your point by who you are talking to just to make them credible.  You take other people's points of view and expound on them just to make yourself RIGHT.
 
Do you  feel it is your duty to point out how your child's program did you wrong and now you MUST educate the world?
 
People who claim to be educated feel that it gives them license to make judgments about whether others are doing things RIGHT or WRONG....or abusive,  of course pertaining to their interests!

[Anonymous]

Anon,


My child was "student" at SCL. I can assure you SCL DOES mistreat children.I wont elaborate at thsi time due to the lawsuit we are involved in against them.

Get over your "grouppie" mentality and realize that the amighty SCL is incompetent in what they claim.  They do mistreat kids.They are as bad as the other facilities if not worse.They claim something they dont provide.

I personally am not surprised at all with the suicide recently at that facility.Their incompetence is blatant.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-10-21 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Anon,





My child was "student" at SCL. I can assure you SCL DOES mistreat children.I wont elaborate at thsi time due to the lawsuit we are involved in against them.



Get over your "grouppie" mentality and realize that the amighty SCL is incompetent in what they claim.  They do mistreat kids.They are as bad as the other facilities if not worse.They claim something they dont provide.



I personally am not surprised at all with the suicide recently at that facility.Their incompetence is blatant."

Get over yourself..........poor you.

[Anonymous]

Brown,

As a Program Grad who staffed parent MANDATED seminars,I hold you ACCOUNTABLE for perpetrating the lie.

In my opinion and experience it was the Seminar staff ,Grads included who made this whole farce continue as a positive healthy experience.I found out later it wasnt.

Instead of bragging you should be ashamed.In fact I understand it was the upper levels who were the hateful perpetrators of unkindness. Shame on you.

So you are "fully baked" I wouldnt tell anyone.

I dont believe you are who you say you are. I think you are a Marketing scammer doing her expert scamming.

[cherish wisdom]

I personally saw all of the bruising on my own child - covering both legs and arms, and an untreated rash (from an allergic reaction to a drug they forced on her) that extended from her knee to her groin.  I have a photo of it.  
She witnessed the abuse of other children who endured hours in a cold, concrete room (observation), human take downs (one where a 14 year old rape victim had her nose smashed into the ground and) and other similar abuses. She also experienced being stripped naked for all to see - this was also done to another 15 year old girl from the Las Vegas area.  These abuses are real - they happen every day in the state of Utah -where thousands of children are locked away in one of over 200 youth facilities, boarding schools, wilderness camps and residential facilities.

Why did we do this? First of all - we had no idea these abuses occured and knew absolutely nothing about residential therapy for youth. Three therapists encouraged this for our child who was suffering from severe depression as a result of an assault. We trusted them and our government - thinking that the laws and regulations in our great country would protect our child from harm.

WE soon learned this was not the case.  The laws are there all right - but they are not obeyed and they are not enforced by the authorities.  In Utah they turned a blind eye to the abuse our child experienced and witnessed. Thankfully we became aware of this and rescued her after a few weeks. Others were not as fortunate. The 14 year old rape victim remained - even after her parents were made aware of what happened. The 15 year old girl who was stripped naked is also still there as are all of the others who had their bones broken in rough human take downs and unessary isolation.  All we can do is pray for them - because those who have been entrusted and ELECTED to enforse the laws and protect these children (including Child Protective Services) do NOTHING....They are bought off by the owners of these abusive programs.  

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher

[Nihilanthic]

Isn't it so *WONDERFUL* that these elected leaders want to focus on the FAMILY, save the FAMILY, protect the FAMILY and our VALUES?

Isn't it a damn shame they don't really do a god damn thing after they get elected?

All who doubted or denied would be lost. To live a moral and honest life -- to keep your contracts, to take care of wife and child -- to make a happy home -- to be a good citizen, a patriot, a just and thoughtful man, was simply a respectable way of going to hell.
--

[Anonymous]

Cherish Wisdom - I thought this thread was started by a Spring Creek Lodge grad - your child wasn't even in a WWASPS school.  Is this some sort of cross over attempt and categorizing all programs because your child had bruises, and who knows if they were self-inflicted?  Those bruises sure do the trick when a kid wants to get away from the rules and structure, huh?  If three therapists recommended your childs program, there must have been something that needed tending to.  

Blaming politicians seems to be the blame of the day.  It's not even a good excuse.

[Anonymous]

So, someone is bruised, or complains about a program, or injursed, its automatically manipulation and self injury?

Please. In a place where its impossible for the programs to do wrong and any complaint is a lie and manipulation and you have to totally dominate your child, its almost surely IS an abusive program.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to infer that humans don't make mistakes, they do, in the workplace, at school, in programs.  Self injury is more prominent as a manipulation technique than what I'm reading here.  Kids go on starvation and lose weight but get medical help before it goes too far.  If a kid wants to hurt themselves, they'll find a way to blame the staff.  To be honest, I can't imagine how these loving and caring people do it everyday when the kids are always looking for a way to bring them down.  They got away with controlling their parents to a point with the behavior prior to going, what makes them think it would change miraculously in a program.  It gets worse before it gets better.

Cherish Wisdom seems to think she needsto tell the parents of the kids that are still there that the supposed abuse their child alleged is reason to bring them home.  She must know more than their own parents?  

With all the negative energy you expend on blaming someone else, just think what a difference you could make with that energy by doing something to support those that are caring for the little angels. Maybe it's a life long thing to tell other people what to think to make yourself right?

[Nihilanthic]

Wow, anon. That post sure was something!

First you are amazed that these people running the programs can 'help' them every day when every single kid is a little monster trying to bring them down, despite all the accuastions of abuse and stories of kids who weren't bad (or needed actual emotional help and were not hurting others but were hurt THEMSELVES) and that even if the kid was bad, they don't deserve abuse.

Second you attack Cherish Wisdom for telling parents is a good reason to bring a kid home if there are accuastions of abuse...? Hello? If a kid could be abused in some place, and there are accusations of it, and its secretive, and you're cut off from the kid, and the kid has no way to call out for help, THATS A VERY GOOD REASON TO REMOVE THE KID FROM IT.

Finally you say if we stopped our criticism and just went along and helped those people 'caring' for the 'little angels' you blame for everything except bad weather we'd make a difference. And then chip in about its a life long thing to tell other people what to think to make yourself right...

What the *HELL* have these programs been doing since day one? Huh? Telling the kids and the parents what to think... to make themselves right! Getting people to blindly follow them. Recruit more people. Make more MONEY.



Why is it soooo illogical to you that not all of them are bad kids, and all of them equally deserve protection from abuse, a way to call for help, a lack of secrecy (transparency, and sunshine - the best disinfectant?) and regulation? Why is it so impossible that if a kid is hurt, sick, bruised, or psychologically messed up it could be the programs fault instead of the child self-injuring for manipulation?

I bet you think suicidal people were just 'manipulating'.

We all care for the little angels in those facilities. We just want them to see the light of day and the same scrutiny of the programs the programs subject their captives to. We want to help out without prior destruction, emotionally damaging seminars, and physically abusive facilities and restraint. We want them to be fed and have a good place to sleep and not be stared at when showering sleeping or on the toilet. We don't think its necessary for 24/7 vigilance to prevent them from talking to eachother, or in the case of some facilities masturbation or homosexual behavior.

But well, its up to you to evaulate yourself in light of what we have said and whether or not you just decide we're ALL liars despite what http://nospank.net, http://www.thestraights.com, and http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens has found out.

And I guess everyone I've heard involved in these programs is lying too. Same for the two girls in a private school that went to a similar seminar experience and went through the same emotional breakdown methods that the programs are accused of.

Yes, thats right, its everyone but you.

The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries