Ken Kay on BBC World Service

[Kiwi]

... with a program parent and three kids:

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/outlook_peo.shtml#thu

At least two of the kids were trying to put a positive spin on TB, "it saved my life", but Kay dismissed them as liars because they told the truth about 'restraint'.  The one who had her jaw broken and was on her third operation to repair it would have had a hard time putting a positive spin on her experience.

[Anonymous]

it will be her who brings them to their knees as well.  i understand she just filed a case in her home state.

[Anonymous]

Ken Kay has promised to show up in person at the San Jose WWASPS Parents' Support Group Saturday night, October 2, 2004.  It is pot luck, and the organizers have moved to a church in Los Altos, expecting a bigger crowd (why, for God's sake).  The organizers have also put out a plea for any teens to attend, as they seem to be heavy on parents and light on survivors, er, graduates.

One can imagine that the wealth and population of Silicon Valley makes a personal intervention visit by Kay worth his while.  These folks do read the Internet a lot, after all, and there's some bad press going around.

If you'd like to drop in for a visit, directions are available.

[Deborah]

When restraints are performed in psych hospitals and other licensed facilities, the staff must document the events that caused the restraint to be necessary and how the restraint was done, and often requires the approval from the resident psych professional. Is W required to document each restraint?

As the journalist stated, it sounds like they are using restraint inappropriately- as a method of coercion rather than an emergency intervention to prevent harm. I wish the interviewer had asked about this, particularly how often they are used, if they're used for minor infractions, etc. Not that an honest answer would be provided- after all Kay is not there on a daily basis- how could he accurately report on anything about the facility?

The interviewer should have asked the PsychoMom if she was raking in bucks by supporting and referring to the program. She states that her daughter was abandoned by her father at 3, yet tells later that her daughter had been violent with him at 15- threw a plate at him. Abandoned? Or was there a divorce. Five therapists at 3 years old?
Did this parent exaggerate intentionally? Was she manipulating?

The other interesting observation was how she spoke about her daugher- third person/object. Psych professional or not, there are some truths that just can't be covered up.

My advice to the mom would be, keep those knives in a locked cabinet.

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-01 16:32:00, Deborah wrote:

Did this parent exaggerate intentionally? Was she manipulating?

She probably believes every word of and vocal nuance to what she said. Probably never thought of it just that way till she saw the light one late night about 12 hours into an EST seminar. But she believes it just the same. She's manipulating herself.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

--Thomas Jefferson, 1791, in a letter to Archibald Stuart

[suspended heart]

Hi Kiwi,

I checked out the site you listed for the bbc. I assume you mean the radio show will be aired on Thursday Oct. 7th? not yesterday.
For that time slot I see weekday magazine, ordinary people, extraordinary events. No specifics on TB.

Thanks for the info.

[Antigen]

No, I listened to it

Under Thursday:
"Life in a boot camp Three reform schools for unruly youngsters run by an American organisation in Mexico have just been closed down. We learn about the way they're run and speak to their founder to ask whether the Mexican authorities were justified in their action."

Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
                                                              Orange Country, California
                                                                  Los Angeles Times
                                                                    29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray

[Anonymous]

She did not throw a plate at her father, he had abandoned her at age 3. The mother referred to him as her ex. what the mother said was "she threw a plate at my husband."  I would therefore assume that would be the girls step father.

[Antigen]

Conspicuously missing is any mention at all of what the girl was so pissed off about. It's asif these people take it as a given than children and teenagers never have, can't possibly have, any legitimate reason to by angry with their parents.

If I ran my house that way, there would be a revolt.

Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary' target='_new'>Webster's

[Deborah]

Thanks for the clarification. She did refered to him as 'her husband', not the girl's 'step-dad'. Hmmm

Any word on W's documentation of restraints?

[Kiwi]

On 2004-10-01 16:52:00, suspended heart wrote:

"Hi Kiwi,



I checked out the site you listed for the bbc. I assume you mean the radio show will be aired on Thursday Oct. 7th? not yesterday.

For that time slot I see weekday magazine, ordinary people, extraordinary events. No specifics on TB.



Thanks for the info."

No, it was broadcast last Thursday.  As Ginger said, you can listen to it online.  Just click "Listen to Thursday's Edition".  If you do not already have it you will need to download a free player from http://www.real.com.

[Nihilanthic]

Ken Kay's child hating nature really came out when asked about restraint... her likened it to a spoiled kid saying its restraint if he can't have fast food. *groan* god I hate that man and now I hate the way he talks.

Then he just flatly denies any kind of abuse happening and says we should tell someone or their parents, and they are required to "write a letter home". Puh-leeze.

Then that stupid mom saying the girls would sit around making up horror stories to get out. Like they're even allowed to talk to eachother? Come on! She just bought into the whole kids are always liars bullshit pretty damn well I think. Takes the blame off her, so why wouldn't he?

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson

[BuzzKill]

//Then that stupid mom saying the girls would sit around making up horror stories to get out. //

Well, this is what her group think pals have told her. They all agree. I fell for it myself for a brief time - then realized kids from many schools were making the same claim (I'm Hungry, they don't feed us)as parents from all over admitted getting letters like this.
Keep in mind - I did not realize at this point the kids aren't allowed to converse.
But I did know, no way a kid at Dundee could conspire with a kid at TB or Casa and so on.

This is how the programming works on the parents.
This is why they want the parents in support groups and on the BBS. The group think re-enforces the programming that takes place in the seminars.
This is why parents are encouraged to cut ties with anyone non supporting. They might 'get threw' the conditioning and wake them up.
In my most humbel opinion, anyway.

[BuzzKill]

Well now, I expect you know full well they can't be expected to document each restraint that takes place. I mean, there are FAR to many! And how would you suggest they describe the method used? Is there a name for it other than torture?
You can't expect them to be as upfrnt and honest as that!
Parents might object.
The group think glue might get soft and people might pull away.
That would cut into the 90 million + a year profit margin.
Thats asking to much, don't you think?

[Deborah]

Of course, it's asking too much- unfortunately.
It would be interesting to see how they would 'control' the kids if they couldn't use force and abuse.

When a kid hears, day in- day out, that they would be 'deadorinjail' without the program, they are inclined to accept the abuse as necessary to preserve their life. With limited life experience, they can't imagine there are other ways. They adopt a skewed sense of right and wrong, in terms of how to treat other human beings.

When my son was recounting events that happened in his case, it was obvious that he could no longer distinguish between what was abuse and what wasn't. Abuse was carried out on a daily basis and so common that he had come to accept it as normal/necessary- even though everything in his being knew it was wrong. This degree of confusion was created in only 6 months time.

The fact that people sit by and allow this also sends a message to the kids- It must be okay because otherwise, someone would stop it. They not only conclude that their parents approve but that their country approves too.

It would also be interesting to see how graduates will behave with their own children. Will they twist their kid's arm behind their back; lock them in dog crates; require them to lie face down on the floor for hours on end; run them round a track while wearing black sweats; deny food, etc; in order to gain compliance? Believing of course, that these are acceptable parenting techniques. They could experience a rude awakening when they discover that this is commonly considered abuse, which could result in the loss of parental rights and/or jail time.