Author Topic: CASA CLOSING  (Read 19503 times)

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Offline Honda Rider

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CASA CLOSING
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2004, 01:56:00 PM »
Aqua Fortis:

You?re such an ignorant, enabling pinhead.  You have no idea who I am or what my situation was before or after making an emotionally tough decision for my son.  Of course I knew what happened at SCLA.  Within hours of it happening to be precise.  Do you honestly think this godforsaken BBS has a corner on the happenings within the Teen Help Industry?  Oh, I forgot, omnipotence permeates within you fornits folks.  You guys can actually tell me what?s going to happen five years down the road.  Maybe you can use those mystical powers to give me the lotto numbers for next week.

Again, no intelligent points made by you.  Just vile hatred and conspiracy theories (is this just the facts: ?I bet his mail, if he ever sends any, goes to HQ in Utah before it comes to your house. If that isn't a cult behavior, what is??).  I was willing to have an intelligent debate on the pros and cons of the teen help industry.  In specific, WWASP?s approach as a suitable form of therapeutic remedy GIVEN there are recognized alternates.  Unfortunately, I?m at a point where I find it impossible since you and your pack of brown shirts lack the ability to write coherent fact-based positions.  You continually demonstrate that you don?t know what the heck you?re talking about.  It?s just an ISAC-style, scripted smear campaign: no dialog, just rants on abuse, cults, deprogramming, and misinformation.  Really, what are you guys afraid of?  Go ahead and feed on this swamp fever rhetoric because it suits you guys just fine.

This has become a grand waste of my precious time.  You can have your BBS back.  I have much better things to do.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2004, 02:27:00 PM »
http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html


excerpt:
Those children's concentration camps have a cult-like hierarchical power structure:

The leader becomes the unquestionable guru whose word is law, an arrogant Pharaoh surveying his kingdom.
The staff become the inner circle of followers, sycophants who toady up to the leader, and then turn around and act like insufferable little martinets towards the children over whom they have power.
Sometimes a third concentric ring of power develops, where some of the most senior of the children -- the "old-comers" -- become bullying slave-drivers for the staff, carrying out the orders of those above them, and abusing the smaller children below them. (That was the case at the Buffalo Soldiers' camp. When Anthony Haynes died, he was actually under the direct command of a 17-year-old boy whose name the sheriff did not release. See below.)
Then those camps usually teach some kind of fascist dogma or philosophy which is supposed to reform the kids. All of the dogma is unquestionably correct, of course, because the guru is never wrong. And all of the usual brainwashing and indoctrination techniques are used, of course. In 1974, the US Senate published a study which accused The Seed (the Straight precursor) of using methods which it likened to Communist brainwashing techniques.


Other forms of behavior modification techniques employ intensive "encounter sessions" in which individuals are required to participate in group therapy discussions where intensive pressure is often placed on the individuals to accept the attitudes of the group... Once the individual is submissive, his personality can begin to be reformed around attitudes determined by the program director to be acceptable. Similar to the highly refined "brainwashing" techniques employed by the North Koreans in the early nineteen fifties, the method is used in the treatment of drug abusers... "The Seed", a drug abuse treatment program in Florida that, until recently, received funding from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, is based on a similar philosophy.
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION by the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, UNITED STATES SENATE, Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights, November, 1974, pp. 15 - 16 describing The Seed.
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Offline Anonymous

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CASA CLOSING
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2004, 02:28:00 PM »
http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html


one more point:

Those children's concentration camps have a cult-like hierarchical power structure:

The leader becomes the unquestionable guru whose word is law, an arrogant Pharaoh surveying his kingdom.
The staff become the inner circle of followers, sycophants who toady up to the leader, and then turn around and act like insufferable little martinets towards the children over whom they have power.
Sometimes a third concentric ring of power develops, where some of the most senior of the children -- the "old-comers" -- become bullying slave-drivers for the staff, carrying out the orders of those above them, and abusing the smaller children below them. (That was the case at the Buffalo Soldiers' camp. When Anthony Haynes died, he was actually under the direct command of a 17-year-old boy whose name the sheriff did not release. See below.)
Then those camps usually teach some kind of fascist dogma or philosophy which is supposed to reform the kids. All of the dogma is unquestionably correct, of course, because the guru is never wrong. And all of the usual brainwashing and indoctrination techniques are used, of course. In 1974, the US Senate published a study which accused The Seed (the Straight precursor) of using methods which it likened to Communist brainwashing techniques.


Other forms of behavior modification techniques employ intensive "encounter sessions" in which individuals are required to participate in group therapy discussions where intensive pressure is often placed on the individuals to accept the attitudes of the group... Once the individual is submissive, his personality can begin to be reformed around attitudes determined by the program director to be acceptable. Similar to the highly refined "brainwashing" techniques employed by the North Koreans in the early nineteen fifties, the method is used in the treatment of drug abusers... "The Seed", a drug abuse treatment program in Florida that, until recently, received funding from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, is based on a similar philosophy.
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION by the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, UNITED STATES SENATE, Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights, November, 1974, pp. 15 - 16 describing The Seed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2004, 02:33:00 PM »
Plus, many of the other standard cult characteristics show up, like:

Cult-Speak,
Group-Think,
mentally-disturbed leaders,
lies and deceit about the real nature of the camp -- especially deceiving the parents about what is being done to their children,
strict regimentation,
time and environmental control,
a system of rewards and punishments,
and sarcastic, sneering 'personal attacks on critics' -- that is, attacks on any child who dares to criticize or object to the treatment or the philosophy.
And "Dual Purposes": While all of that is going on, the boot camps and other children's gulags still advertise themselves as wonderful rehabilitation centers, saving the children from lives wasted by drugs, alcohol, and crime, and the gulags solicit funds from charities and government agencies alike, to continue their "good work."
It's funny how so many politicians and bureaucrats imagine that Buchenwald look-alikes will be good for getting children off of drugs. It does not seem to ever occur to them that child abuse and bad environments are often what drove the kids to drugs in the first place.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2004, 02:47:00 PM »
***You can have your BBS back.
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

As if you ever took it. Control freak.
Want to debate?
How bout visiting this thread and answering the many questions that were never responded to:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 65&forum=9

WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2004, 02:49:00 PM »
Quote

WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2004, 04:30:00 PM »
What is one of your "hard" questions?  Or what are your "many" hard questions?  Are you not hearing what you want to hear and want another answer, or what? In a nutshell, I don't want, nor have time, to go through 32 pages of dialogue.  

I know what Honda Rider meant by giving you back your BBS.  He's giving it back to the majority who will never accept the positive side, which is still the majority out here in the real world. Deborah, control freak?  Look in the mirror along with Buzzkill (Karen, does your pseudo mean WWASPS KILL??)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2004, 04:33:00 PM »
There have been thousands of kids and parents who have experienced a wwasp program, and it seems to me that out of all the sites trying to discredit thier programs maybe %1 are posting here and other places and %1 may be generous.
It is just hard to belive that thousands of people are involved in some conspiracy or cover up. I'm sorry i don't buy it.
     The one that cares
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2004, 04:36:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-10-17 11:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote


WWASP defenders have a reputation here. One of avoiding questions, lying and manipulating, and attempting to control or discredit other people who are telling their personal experiences. One thing you can always count on. When the hard questions come up, they suddenly have better things to do.




 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy: "


I don't see the WWASPS defenders avoiding, lying, manipulating or attempting to control - I do see the discrediting part - Discrediting the rants is the purpose in being here.  Now ask all the questions you want to, and see who is manipulating and controlling the truth.
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Offline 4peace

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« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2004, 04:41:00 PM »
Hey!  :???:    Does anyone remember that this thread is about CASA CLOSING.....
just a reminder for the WWASP "unofficial" representative/defender.

And, by the way, I'm with my son today, right now, he was one of the liberated kids when that hell hole was shut down. And, no, I wasn't the one who put him there.
Anita
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2004, 08:21:00 PM »
***What is one of your "hard" questions?

Would you find it acceptable if I deemed you to be an unfit parent, showed up at your home in the middle of the night and abducted you? Told you nothing about where you were going or how long you'd be there. Then kept you isolated from the world and your loved ones while subjecting you to ridiculous standards, my philosophy of the world and relationships, and austere and abusive consequences. Forcing you to lie face down for days on end. Telling you daily what a miserable human specimen you are, not to mention a pathetic role model for a teen; and encouraged your family members to write letters to that effect. And if I convinced your family that you were a habitual liar and manipulator who was always blaming someone else (teenagers) for your problems. If I screened your mail and refused phone calls.
If I made toilet paper and condiments available only when you showed signs of adopting my "no warehousing of teens" philosophy. If I had my goons drop you to the floor and twist your arm behind your back, just short of injury; every time you resisted a command or anytime you smiled, laughed, cried; looked out a window or moved from one room to another without permission. If I made you listen to tapes by my prefered parental gurus for hours on end everyday. If I refused to allow you to leave to attend your grandfather's funeral or any other important family event. If I allowed you no TV, radio, newpapers. If I allowed you 2 minute showers, cold more times than not.
I could go on, but you get the picture.

So the questions are:
How would that make you feel?
Would you feel good about yourself or just do what you had to to get the hell out as soon as possible?
What effect might this have on your attitude and personality over a two to three year period?
Do you think you might try to escape or contact a friend to take legal action on your behalf?
Do you really believe that this is 'therapy' in any sense of the word?
Can you provide links to research that shows this austere and abusive modality to be a viable treatment venue for ANYONE, much less impressionable teens?


***I know what Honda Rider meant by giving you back your BBS.

Of course you do, your both of the control freak ilk who fear teens and haven't a clue how to be in relationship with other human beings. A bunch of pathetic parents who feel victimized by their kids, all the while professing to be in charge of the choices they make- ie. not victims. A pathetic lot you are.

***He's giving it back to the majority who will never accept the positive side, which is still the majority out here in the real world.

Sweetie, get this- he's not giving shit 'back', cause it was never his to give back. There is no positive side to see. Only in your deranged mind that needs to make teens the problem.

Perhaps one day you barbarians will wake up and realize that abuse is not the way to create positive, long-term changes in unhappy people.
In fact these warehouses are the antithesis of what is called for. Peak Intellegence has arrived.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #101 on: October 17, 2004, 09:38:00 PM »
Deborah - Yes, I get the picture. I am confident that no one answered your questions because there's no reason to.  The only thing true in your "metaphors" is there isn't t.v. except weekend movies, radios are an earned priviledge for the upper levels.  Important news is shared by staff or parents.  The rest should be used as puppy training paper.    

We only hear or read the first part of your delusion from kids who convinced their parents they were being abused and twisted their stories to what you wrote, or from the parents themselves who are enabling their child to pull the wool over their eyes and bring them home from the big bad program. Oh, yea, forgot about the noncustodial parents or the parents that still want to tell the staff how to do their jobs.  

No, I don't have links to research.  I prefer to go by what I personally know.  It works for the majority of families I personally know because they wanted it to many years down the road.   That's good enough for me.  

Who said we blame the teens?  Go to the first seminar called Discovery - that's sometimes the first clue the parents accept they are a part of the breakdown.  

I wouldn't call you pathetic.  You have your view, I have my facts.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #102 on: October 17, 2004, 10:29:00 PM »
The typical response.
Most of the metaphoric scenerio I used was not from disgruntled parents and participants. Those are things that the program and parents admit are part of the 'treatment'.

So, remove the abuse that you can't consider, and answer the question. Is this a respectful way to treat another human being?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #103 on: October 17, 2004, 11:43:00 PM »
Speaking of cold hard facts... If you placed your child in a WWASP program, Honda Rider, you as the parent or other legal guardian of the child were required to have signed a "form" which included either a similar or identical statement to the following:

The Sponsors understand that *insert WWASP facility name* does not own, control, direct or manage Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company. Therefore, *insert WWASP facility name* does not assume any liability nor responsibility, implied or otherwise, for Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company. This would include the care of your child while at these Schools or during transportation. The parents/sponsors hereby agree to release and forever hold harmless *insert wwasp facility name* any liability connected with Tranquility Bay or the independent transport company.

Independent transport company? That is a synonomous term for escort service. You really signed that?  ::bangin:: I doubt that Aqua Fortis is the ignorant one here.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2004, 04:54:00 AM »
What about the kids, and there are some, who in no way deserve to be sent away to these programs?  What if the parent or parents really are deranged?  What if the parent is abusive?  There exist many vindictive ex-spouses and self-centered step-parents who simply can't be bothered with raising a teenager.  It doesn't matter if the child is doing well in school and not into drugs, they can be "Escorted" in the middle of the night and not be heard from again.
Where are the checks and balances in these facilities?  Should custodial parents be able to banish their children simply because they have the power and the money to do so? Shouldn't there be an unbaised third party, a doctor, or therapist or judge who would help determine if a "Behavior Modification" facility is the right placement for a child?
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