Amanda is HOME

[Anonymous]

Craig?  You seem to be a few fries short of a happy meal, pal.

Your writing style is about as distinctive as a fingerprint.

You're definitely eccentric.  And your thoughts are disorganized and rambling.  And you're obsessive about a very small, very controlling minority set of religious opinions.  

I hope that someday you get the good mental health care you so obviously need, and I hope that when you get it that it's the best care possible for you.

You said, "The Lord must have some reason" but you've clearly never considered that the Lord's reason might be to do what's best for Amanda instead of what *you* think is best for her.

You never consider that you might be the one who is wrong, and in your refusal to seriously, soberly, sincerely accept that possibility, you substitute your judgement for God's.

You're playing God, Craig.

But I believe the highest power is merciful to the mentally infirm, and will have compassion for you.

You've decided that your interpretation *is* God's Word, instead of just your human, fallible interpretation.  You've set yourself up in the place of God.

Consider that God may have "allowed" Amanda to come home because that's the best place for her and because *your interpretation* of God's Will was just flat wrong.

Craig?  If God is talking back when you talk to God, the little voice or little voices aren't God.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Paige--I am so happy for you and Amanda, and I hope she takes to learning like a duck to water and is able to make up for lost time.

Good luck to her in school! :smile:

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

I decided to take a look at Abundant Life Academy's web page. This one thing that Craig puts forth - he didn't bother to say what Bible version he used, and I personally find that the Authorized KJV cuts down on confusion, but I'll show you what Craig has set forth and then the KJV wording - and the REST of the matter that Craig so conveniently failed to put forth.

Abundant Life Academy's web page says:

"Your teen does have a destiny in Christ, "...For I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for calamity, to give you a future, and a hope..." -Jeremiah 29:11

Authorized KJV says:

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11

Quite a LOT of difference isn't there? The Lord does NOT think evil of children or anybody - The Lord has thoughts of PEACE toward us ALL so that a child and everyone can have an expected end.

Does describing teens as TROUBLED in ANY WAY cause ANYBODY to have thoughts of PEACE toward a CHILD? (Abundant Life Academy and Craig Rogers on their definition page use the word TROUBLED no less than 16 times. It is clear that they are trying to get anybody who reads there "comfortable" with that AWFUL word! Not what God wants, I don't believe, but apparently what CRAIG ROGERS wants.)

It is through THOUGHTS of PEACE that The Lord DRAWS PEOPLE TO HIM and we are to emulate The Lord if we are to speak His TRUTH. Read on...

Further found in Jeremiah, Chapter 29, are these verses which Abundant Life Academy does not put forth in their advertisements - and you will see why they don't once you read - there is one that I believe speaks directly to AMANDA AND PAIGE -verse 14, below:

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13

FOR PAIGE AND AMANDA, THUS SAITH THE LORD:

And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. Jeremiah 29:14

THERE'S MORE THAT CRAIG DIDN'T REPORT - MAYBE BECAUSE GOD SENT A WARNING AGAINST THE LIKES OF CRAIG ROGERS AND ABUNDANT LIFE ACADEMY?

For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.

For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 29:8-9

The Lord has spoken! 'Nuf said CRAIG!

God IS with you AMANDA & PAIGE - NEVER doubt it! GO IN PEACE: Amanda, you are a WONDERFUL child. Paige: You are an AWESOME person with a TRUE heart for The Lord!!! (You go girls!!!)

[Anonymous]

And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. Jeremiah 29:14

You could apply this to Amanda. . .
However, I feel it should be pointed out it was actually said to the Israelites; it was a prophecy that Jeremiah gave that the people would one day be re-gathered to the land. A prophecy that has been fulfilled in recent history and was considered quite impossible by the scholars and theologians prior to God doing it.

Jeremiah was known as the weeping prophet; b/c God kept giving him prophecies he didn't want to deliver; About the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the dispensation of the people. However, God in His mercy also gave Jeremiah the prophecies about the return of the people; And that is what we have here.
Isaiah also had much to say about this subject.
And Ezekiel's famous chapter 37 - all about the rebirth of Israel.
Actually, the Prophets all spoke to this.
Like you, good sister/brother, when troubled, I will often open The Book and read, and apply what I find there to my life and situation; However, it's important to be clear what was actually being spoken to when expounding on the Prophets.

[Anonymous]

Hey congrats on getting her out of the program.

What happened? How did you get her out if her mother wanted to keep her there? Are you a relative?  I am curious because you hear of split families where one side wants to incarcerate and the other doesn't and it turns into a big family mess.

(I went to a TBS and had to split; fortunately, my Dad did not send me back; my mother would have. I think he was starting to feel there was something fishy about the whole thing.)

[Anonymous]

Ben Avraham
posted August 17, 2004 07:48 PM                        
In the day of Jeremiah there was great wickedness in Israel. The people had turned from the Lord and his Commandments to them. Israel had allowed Baal to be worshipped in the sacred Temple along with Y-HW-H.

There also existed many false prophets and all preached the same message. That message was that G-d loved his chosen people. G-d would not harm his chosen people no matter how they lived or how much they disobeyed his Commandments. G-d would keep Israel safe, just because he loved them and had a covenant with them.

Then there came on the scene one man named Jeremiah. His message to the people was that if they did not repent and turn from their sins, the Lord G-d would divorce them as husband divorces an harlot. Those who heard Jeremiahs message of repentance, hated him for it. They beat him several times, and then cast him into prison.
When Jeremiah was released from prison, they made jokes at him saying, "Tell us another prophecy Jeremiah?" But the Word of the Lord burned in the bones of Jeremiah and he could not be silent.

Jeremiah said to Israel, you must repent of your sins, lest G-d will punish you and destroy Israel! He said that these many prophets are telling you what you want to hear. They say that G-d will not allow the destruction of Israel because they are his chosen people, no matter how much they turn from him. These false prophets speak for themselves, but I speak in the Name of the Lord!

Does all of this sound familiar in the present day in which we live? Are we not living in a day of Apostacy like was in the day of Jeremiah? Are there not countless false prophets which tell you to live anyway that you wish? And that G-d will not destroy you because he has a covenant with you?

At the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who are with out a marriage garment of white, will be thrown out of the supper, into outer darkness. So said Jesus Christ. This means that under the New Covenant, those who accept the Blood of Jesus over their sins, will be required to also keep the Commandments of G-d and thus have a white robe. They have lived a moral life and will enherit eternal life. Those who have believed on Jesus name and lived like the world, will receive everlasting damnation.

May this message reach the eyes of someone who needs to read it. Lord give me the courage in this dark day to preach the message as Jeremiah preached it. The true message of Salvation.

"He that hath my Commandments, and keepeth them, he it is, that loveth me."
"And he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and manifest myself in him"(Jesus Christ)
(John 14:21)

[Anonymous]

Please consider that the point of the Jeremiah story is that the message of redemption through simple "belief in Jesus" is simply an example of the false prophesy against which Jeremiah was warning the Israelites.  

Jeremiah was preaching that the traditional Torah based outlook --which stressed absolute accountability not only for "bad choices"  but also for any behavior contrary to biblical (i.e. Pentateuchal) law -- was not compatible with excessive tolerance of misbehavior.

In other words,  notwithstanding what some "prophets" would have folks believe,  you don't get any kind of back door absolution through confession of sin,  belief in a savior, repeating certain number of hail mary's etc.
God is only interested in your actions and is quite insistent that your actions be in accord with the delivered Word.

[Anonymous]

Please consider that the point of the Jeremiah story is that the message of redemption through simple "belief in Jesus" is simply an example of the false prophesy against which Jeremiah was warning the Israelites.

Redemption is through "simple" belief.  It is not by something I do "do" or "don't" do, but through that simple act of belief, faith, in Christ.  If I could get into heaven based on my works (something I do that is "good") or by altering my behavior, changing from bad to good (to stop doing something that is "bad") then JESUS DID NOT NEED TO DIE FOR ME.  You see brother, I am not saved by my good works, I am not saved because I not longer sin, I am saved by grace, through faith in JESUS. I thank GOD and JESUS that I don't have to depend on my self for salvation.  I thank JESUS everyday for paying the price for my soul.  

I do agree that GOD is interested in our actions, but like I already said, I thank him that I don't have to depend on them to get me into heaven. The price my Savior paid, he paid in full.

[Anonymous]

JESUS DID NOT NEED TO DIE FOR ME...

Precisely.

God announces his abhorrence of child sacrifice on numerous occasions in the Bible,  starting with the incident at Mount Moriah (Abraham and Isaac) and admonishment "not to deliver up your children to Molech" (a pagan god who was thought to desire burning of children as a sacrifice.)

How then could anyone suppose that our God would --for reasons which have never been clear to me-- be  so limited in formulating a plan for redemption of mankind which had to employ  sacrifice of his own child as a necessary element?

God is infinite.  God created the entire world in 6 days.  God created Adam and Eve from mere dust.
God could, if he chose, create one more son,  or a billion more sons --with or without the assistance of a human virgin.

To say,  as in John 3:16, that God so loved the world that he gave his "only" son for man's sin is little more than a cruel joke.  An infinite being giving up one human son is roughly comparable to a human giving up a few flakes of dandruff.  He might as well have given us a handful of magic beans and simply decreed that mankind should sin no more -- and no extra charge for all man's sinning up to that point.  

Either way -- whether He chose the only begotten son approach or the magic bean approach -- there has been no noticable shortage of sin since the time of Christ and the victims of sinful behavior prior to Christ weren't around to know how  much better off they were.

Obviously, even if one accepts the premise that God would going through this cruxifition exercise to redeem mankind for its sins,  then one must also accept that God's ultimate motive is to influence man to refrain from sin AND to encourage the performance of good deeds and kindness here on earth.  The concept that belief in Christ trumps a lifetime of bad deeds is an after the fact invention of the scribes who wrote the New Testament some 50  to 70 years after Christs death.

[Anonymous]

I disagree, it is very simple, faith in Christ is all I need.

[Anonymous]

Faith and not works is what saves. I agree with this completely. Anything that deviates from this central truth is false teaching from the Great Liar and its propose is to lead the masses down the wide road to damnation.
An yet, we know the demons in hell believe and tremble - so just believing is not enough - there must be the surrendering to Christ as Lord, as well; and as a result good works naturally follow. I think, possibly, the degree of our good works may determine the degree of reward.

As for the crucifixion/redemption issue - Look to Isaiah. He explains it very well as dose David in the Psalms. Other Prophets speak to it as well, but when it comes to explaining the how and why, I don't think God gave us a better Prophet than Isaiah. I also like Daniel; but one needs to understand what the Rock and who the Bolder  and Corner Stone are/is to understand what he is saying. Isaiah also uses this prophetic symbolism - Behold, I lay in Zion a Stone for a foundation. A Tried Stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation. . .Your covenant with death will be annulled; and your agreement with Sheol will not stand. . .

As for God's abhorrence to child sacrifice - Might that not have something to do with the fact it was to false gods - even to demons for evil?

The crucifixion, by contrast, was God Himself, paying the debt of humanity so that our convenient with death might be annulled and our agreement with Sheol broken.

[Anonymous]

All this posturing aside, have we gotten a "wee bit" off topic here?

[Anonymous]

Jeremiah is a bullfrog.

[Anonymous]

Sure it's off Topic. That happens a lot.
And Jeremiah Was a bullfrog - he was a good friend of mine.
Jeremiah was also a Prophet of the Holy God of Israel; who was quoted in this thread; b/c ALA quotes him on the web site; and someone wanted to debate the meaning of the quote; and so it goes.
I feel we can trust Paige to get us back on topic soon as she gets a chance.
Meanwhile, I am enjoying the turn this took.

[Anonymous]

All this posturing aside, have we gotten a "wee bit" off topic here?

Not really.  Craig thinks he can save the souls of teens.  Just trying to help him see that he can't.  


Jeramiah is a bullfrog...NO...Jeremiah was a bullfrog.  :grin: