Author Topic: A very young (11 years old Seedling)  (Read 3883 times)

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Offline Marnie

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« on: July 22, 2002, 06:33:00 PM »
I was a very very young seedling - My oldest brother Roger was put in the program  in the early 70's ...and because I was his sister - I was made to go in myself It was the opinion if one family member goes in....they all go in - I was just a baby  - I remember very little - but what I do know for sure! is that this partucular program saved my brothers life!!! - he was very close to death and needed desperate help - All he needed was someone to tell him there was a an alternative to the life of shooting drugs and crime - and the seed gavev him that -ONE FACT- he would have been dead - If you knew the horror stories of his past ( before the seed) you would not believe the horrible tales... he finished the program in record time and is an attorney today - he just needed someone to show hime a different lifestyle  - for that I am grateful - he also went to Lakewood High

 - now STRAIGHT IS A DIFFERENT STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a joke - but at the time I felt it was the only place I had where I felt I belonged with kids my age
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2002, 06:56:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-07-22 15:33:00, Marnie wrote:
I was a very very young seedling - My oldest brother Roger was put in the program  in the early 70's ...and because I was his sister - I was made to go in myself It was the opinion if one family member goes in....they all go in - I was just a baby  - I remember very little - but what I do know for sure! is that this partucular program saved my brothers life!!! - he was very close to death and needed desperate help - All he needed was someone to tell him there was a an alternative to the life of shooting drugs and crime - and the seed gavev him that -ONE FACT- he would have been dead - If you knew the horror stories of his past ( before the seed) you would not believe the horrible tales... he finished the program in record time and is an attorney today - he just needed someone to show hime a different lifestyle  - for that I am grateful - he also went to Lakewood High



 - now STRAIGHT IS A DIFFERENT STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a joke - but at the time I felt it was the only place I had where I felt I belonged with kids my age
Hello, and welcome to this forum. Please privately email me at [email protected]. I would like to know who you are because I think I know your brother, but don't want to mention last names on this site.
You were 11 years old and made to go into an experimental controversial drug treatment center, and you weren't on drugs. Shame on both your parents and the Seed for taking you.You called the Straight a joke? Indeed it was, but The Seed and straight were substantially the same thing, same people, same program, same everything.

You seem to have one memory, that your brother would be dead without the Seed. How do you know this?  This is standard Seed lingo told to every kid in the program, with maybe the exception of you, maybe even they couldn't lie that much.
I cant even imagine placing my 11 year old daughter in the Seed or Straight. Unbelievable, but then I remember those poor little kids, totally lost and out of place in the strenching warehouse behind tyrone mall,torn from their families, their beds, their dogs and dolls. Then I rememeber myself, barely 14, not having hit puberty yet, enduring abuse and torture and being told, and eventually saying myself, that I would be dead without the Seed.
Bunch of bullshit....and it is way past time to challenge that notion.
Tell your brother to post here also, and I welcome your participation in this forum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MommaDebi

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2002, 07:32:00 PM »
Marnie wrote- "I was made to go in myself It was the opinion if one family member goes in....they all go in - I was just a baby - I remember very little - but what I do know for sure! is that this partucular program saved my brothers life!!!" -


 I submit you feel this way because you were so young when you were indoctrinated with the Program's particular nonsense.
 What I want to say is, "Recovery from drugs could have happened for your brother in a different setting".

 It is also interesting to me that you were placed there at the tender age of 11, when my brother who was actively using more drugs than I was allowed to stay at home and not placed into the program.He was only 1 year younger than me. This was a big cause of resentment.
  Of course he was there every time I was able to be there and when I "earned" back my home priviledges.It was very frustrating and I certainly felt singled out and punished unfairly.
 I am truly glad your brother has been able to move on and have success in his life.Not all Exseedlings are able to do so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh...\" {Indigo Girls~~ \"The Watershed\"}

Offline GregFL

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2002, 08:47:00 PM »
The program is a cult, that is why they dragged that poor 11 year old girl in there. The Seed thrived on new bodies, and they would get em anyway they could. Court order, "druggie attitude", Judges sentencing non drug using shoplifters, to the seed, any freaken reason to lock you down in there, they would.
Art had a vision. He believed he was destined to save the country's kids, and he was gonna do it any damned way possible. Fortunately, his ego was bigger than his ability, and the gov't changed horses. Art went back and was allowed to just exist in Ft Lauderdale, but Dupont picked a new horse, one with more Blue blood roots, so to speak, Mel Sembler, and expanded the adolescent synanon experiment concept  almost unhindered thruout the US, until lawsuits, picketers, and bad press finally caught up to them.  The straight WAS JUST A CONTINUATING of the St Pete Seed, people, have no misconception. The only reason the Straight ever existed is because Art Barker started fighting with the people whom made him, started saying publiclly "fuck em, we can do it without them". Well, he couldn't. It took savy business minded folks, our parents, to accomplish that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Marnie

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2002, 10:30:00 AM »
I know my brother Roger was court ordered into the Seed because he was ready to die... No other reason - Yes in a perfect world he could have received help in another setting -but my family new we had no time and no options.  Before the Seed, I would walk in on Roger and his firends while he was shooting up whatever drug they could find or steal ( usually from a pharmacy). He could not help himself and I remember in my mother's desperation the Seed was the best alternative at the time.  When he entered the program....basically he never looked back.  He needed someone or anyone to show him the way out...the Seed was that place.  He did not stick around the program.  He got what he could use for himself out of the program - graduated and never looked back.  All he new was a dysfunctional life and this was his way out of the mess.  He was 19 at the time - so at least he was old enough to take what he could out of the program and move on.  I know that the steps and the prayers of the programs (Seed, Straight) were at first based on something good and productive(AA)...but unfortunately both programs took these same steps and prayers and twisted them in a way that hurt many people - My brother is a success story - is that not worth something?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2002, 12:58:00 PM »
Yes, it is great that your brother suceeded. This may sound harsh, tho, but I don't believe saving your brother was worth everyone else's torture and the suicides of many whom went into the Seed. I refer you to a prior post where the guy just blew his head off one day before he got picked up  to go to group.
A good friend of mine killed himself with an overdose after graduating the Seed. Would this have happened?  We don't know,anymore than we know whether or not your brother would have straightened out on his own.
I spent 20 years trying to forget about the Seed, my entire teenage years were ruined and my family is still impacted to this day. I would not have  had this experience to save your brother if given the choice.
During the last 29 years, I have met many people whom put needles in their arm during wild periods in their life. One of them was my best friend Rod. Rod got shot in a drug deal. Rod routinely shot up Cocaine, smuggled hash,involved himself in violent drug gang activity in Ft Lauderdale. you name it, he did it. Rod never went into any treatment center. Where is Rod today? he is a college graduate with a masters in construction, has two adopted Korean kids.  Dale Long was a friend of mine in 8th grade, went to lakewood. Never went to treatment. Today Dale is dead of a drug overdose.
Blaming these things on lack oftreatment or crediting treatment with saving your life is just not accurate. There is a study that compares "success rates" of people whom go into treatment, and there is not a discernable difference between those that do and those that don't. Most people just stop taking drugs, or robbing houses, or whatever. Some Die. Some end up in jail. This is life.But taking a whole class of kids (white, middle and upper, non drug addicted behavior problems) convincing them they are addicts, making publiclly confess to crimes, locking them up worse than adult criminals get treated, and forcing them into "treatment' which was nothing more than a glorified Korean style "reeducation camp" is wrong. In fact, things that went on there were criminal. I would also refer you to Fuelaw's posts. He is an attorney also, and he didn't for one minute appreciate his Seed experience and the abuse and torture.
Tell your brother I am glad he got off drugs and suceeded in life.Tell him also that we would appreciate his participation here.I am also sad that at age 11, they forced you into "treatment". What a crock of bullshit. They sacrificed your childhood to appease the great Seed cult in order to "save" your brother.
ps, was your other brother known as Scooter? Did you live in Porto Cadiz? Did you also have a sister?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline MommaDebi

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2002, 02:00:00 PM »
Greg wrote:" Most people just stop taking drugs, or robbing houses, or whatever. Some Die. Some end up in jail. This is life.But taking a whole class of kids... convincing them they are addicts, making publiclly confess to crimes, locking them up ..."reeducation camp" is wrong. In fact, things that went on there were criminal. "



I wholeheartedly agree.


I also think sometimes we, in this safe place,have to agree to disagree.
otherwise, we are just as cruel and judgemental as they taught us to be in the program.

I personally believe that Marnie's feelings of gratitude towards the Seed and it's ability to "save" her brother's life, is simply an indication of the ability of the Seed to "program" its inmates.

She was a very impressionable 11 years old when indoctrinated with the programs' hype. So I think it is to be expected that the basic tenants of belief are still with her.
 
That does not take away from my ability to state my feelings about the irrevocable harm that the Seed did to me and my family.
I have a brother I have not seen in 25 years, following his violent rape of me.A father, a stepmother and stepsister I have not seen in almost 13 years, because they were too unhealthy for me to be around with my young son. In fact my father died, 6 years ago, following his taking me to court to sue for visitation of my son  and yes I did win that particular battle).I took my responsibility seriously as a parent to ensure that he was in emotionally healthy environments,& treated with love,respect and courtesy. I did not want him to have to have the same type of baggage that I have.
 I have much younger bro and sis that I am just now learning to value and love because I was not living in their home as they grew up.

 
So Marnie, while I accept your belief that the Seed healed your brother I would appreciate your understanding of the damage it did to me.

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:09 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh...\" {Indigo Girls~~ \"The Watershed\"}

Offline Marnie

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2002, 04:30:00 PM »
WOW..... When you said Scooter it brought tears to my eyes - yes "Scooter" WAS my middle brother - Scooter died in an automobile accident in November 1987 - Acohol related.  I think some people that have read my thoughts misunderstand me - I was not just in the Seed - I was also put in Straight in 1977.  The Seed helped me go from a very young gullible child to a MESSED up teen. Of course... my mother seeing the success of my older brother Roger..... thought the best thing for myself, my sister Jennie and my brother Ken (Scooter) was Straight, Inc. I spent many years at Straight as a participant... working my way from newcomer all the up to Sr. Staff - I blame Straight for my brother and the pain I go thru everyday - I blame Straignt for the terrible feeling of insecurity and the unmistakable thoughts of feeling and being inferior to every human being.  

I know the horror - but as far as the Seed and my Brother Roger are concerned...I am just relating facts as I know and see them I feel as if I will never be normal - I just survive everyday - thanks for listening

Marnie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2002, 05:03:00 PM »
OH my god, it is you.
I used to know your family well, and your older brother was really messed up. Him and some guy used to lay on the couch at your apartment and be all fucked up from shooting drugs. This is when I was thirteen. Scooter was my buddy, and I had a crush on your sister. Marnie, you mom had no business placing you in the Seed.
Your brother may remeber me, but perhaps not. I really thought Scooter was cool. I just vaguely remember you, but remember the situation was bad there. My name was Greg B. I hung around Scooter quite a bit. I am sorry he didn't make it.
I am so happy Roger did, he was truly messed up, like you say. His friend he hung aroung was a major asshole. They both just did nothing all day in your mom's apartment.
Tell you sister I said hello and ask her if she remembers me, and your brother as well.
Marnie, Email me tonite [email protected]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2002, 05:16:00 PM »
One more point, Marnie. There was absolutely no parenting going on at your house. YOur mom certaintly needed to take responsibility for the situation there. We used to go there after school and smoke dope and raise hell. No one was ever home. Even at night, for some reason it was okay to go there and party. I am remembering you more and more. You were about 10 years old when I knew you, I was thirteen. (i am 43 now, is that right) and everyone smoked pot and stuff right in front of you. Your sister was real cool and had a boyfriend, but I kinda liked her. we were so young and that was so long ago. I think you guys moved out of porto cadiz and now I have a vague memory of Scooter in the seed, but I think he left or ran? Is this memory right?
BTW, your brothers older friend was like a pysco or something. we would come in and say hi, and he would flip us off and say fuck you punk and shit like that. Your brother was nice in spite of his problems. Do you remember the all night parties at the clubhouse with scary movies? Ask you sister.
What is her name again, and how is she doing?
Again, I am glad he made it. I did too, in spite of the seed.
Greg.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline I'll kick your arse

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Re: A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 11:17:04 PM »
:soapbox:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »