The humiliating seed!

[Bigfrank]

I was in the seed in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale.... The old comer that humiliated me by pulling my pants down and whipping me with the belt was 18 I think, he lived at home with his 2 step brothers and his parents... I will never forget the humiliation, the 2 step brothers were in the seed also and they had 2 new comers staying with them... He told me one day on the way to the seed that if I didn't get up and talk, as I said before I was very shy and I didn't really think this jerks step brothers or parents would really let him do that to me, well I was wrong there, the very next day after my old comer dropped me off, the freak started asking me what he had said the day before, I told him that I had tried but noone called on me, he said that was a cop out and he took off his belt and told me to pull my pants down, I told him that I wasn't going to do that then he grabbed me and told me that I was just making it harde on myself.... He was a lot bigger than me and before I knew it my pants were down right in front of his family and the 2 new comers... His father didn't say one word, he just let him humiliate me like that... I do remember after I was on the program for a few months, I saw the freak back on the front row and I wished he could have become my new comer.... I'm sure you can figure out what I would have done to this freak the second we got into my house......

[Somejoker]

Thanks, Frank. Welcome. Your post kind of pisses me off and reminds me of the inhumanity of the whole thing. In the real world, doing that to a 14 year old could get you thrown in jail for several charges. But in the protected world of Juvenile synanon's, anything goes. IyMakes my stomach turn.
There was a recent post on the straight alumni site that claimed a guy stood up in group and admitted having sex with his oldcomer's 11 year old daughter in front of one of the principals. Nothing was ever done.
My question; sex with an 11 year old is typically called rape. Why wasn't this reported. Why wasn't the person arrested?
The whole thing is sickening..

[MommaDebi]

Yes I agree, it is enough to make you sick.


 I would never place my son in such a threatening place.
 And they wonder "why" families became so fractured following our release from this program!
 I myself could not wait to move out of my father's home!I even went to a lawyer, he drew up a paper for my father to sign allowing me to be out of the house.
 It took a lot of courage for me at 15 to ask my father to sign this and let me go! Of course he refused and the next year was more hellish. But he finally did it when I was 16. I just did not want to be dragged back by cops believing I was a runaway!
 I calmly and happily walked out those doors and did not return for almost 10 years! I did survive!

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-22 08:56 ]

[MommaDebi]

Perhaps there was talk about me...I don't know.
 I had been working at Aunt Hatties restaurant (& later Uncle Ed's) and handing my paycheck to my father.
 He gave me back $10, for my spending money. The rest was room and board.Imagine asking your 14 yr old to pay for the priviledge of living at home: getting beat 3-4 time/week,being called a slut and a whore almost daily (Note,I was still a virgin), cleaning the house daily, and deeply on Sat, (siblings had no chores), setting up dinner between school and work, coming home at 11 pm, doing the dinner dishes, homework and crawling into bed about 1am so I could get up at 5 and do it all over again.
 

The Williams' family had offered to let me live with them, but my father refused. Oh, How I paid for that request!


Finally, he pulled me out of bed at 3:30 one morning screaming at me and beating me because "How dareI sneak out of the house", "stop pretending you were sleeping" ....I was grounded at the time for a B on my report card.Only allowed to go to school and work. which is truly what i had done! I never snuck out...not once.

 I guess the clean dishes, the finished homework, and the folded laundry did not count. I could not prove I had been home, since everybody had been sleeping when I got in and started on my nightly chores.He only broke 2 ribs that night, but I was able to get him to sign that damn paper! I felt so good~~did not know how good I could feel until then.

 I got a small apt downtown 3rd St & 6th Ave S. in an older home that had been made into apts. I was the only person under 65 there and I loved it! Cost $90/month including utilities! The electric wires were in metal tubing running along the whole place and I thought it was grand!

 My mother came over saw it hated it, but no offer to live w/her family!...soon Dad got me fired from Job, but I was taken in by the older people, they cooked me dinner and left groceries for me...how very kind they were! Then I found another job and moved closer to it as I had no car and relied on the bus system to go to work and school.


I was very lucky.I am very grateful that I survived!

My younger brother came to live with me within 6 months as Dad kicked him out.He lived w/me for 3 years, I never recieved any funds from dad or Mom for him, so I worked 2 jobs for a long time to support him while he went to school.

 PS Needless to say I did not let my son get a job until 11th grade, and even then PT only 2-6 pm at a law office in town. He has never had to pay for living with me! I bought his first car, pay his insurance and he has a gas card to use!



_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 06:57 ]

[GregFL]

Man, you have been thru it!. I am SO glad you are doing so well now. Is your father and mother still alive? If so, what is your relationship like. I understand what you are talking about with your kids. I am the same way with my son and daughter. Some day I will tell my whole story on this site, but I was also de facto without parents in my teen years, and it was awfull. I lost my dad to the cult, and my mom was a raging alchohlic.I felt like I was robbed of my entire teenage years.

My best buddie Rod was a dishwasher/cook at aunt hatties. I met him after he left St Pete and went to Lauderdale. He is the guy I spoke of in Marnie's post.
Remember him?
I talked to him about a month ago.
Greg.

[MommaDebi]

Gee greg. i don't know that it was so bad.i am still alive, I read about people that killed their kids all the time...they just tried to kill my spirit...

You know how people always say, If I could only go back in time....never have I said that! Life just gets better for me as I get older and wiser (lol)



My father died several years ago result of his alcoholism and diabetes dual diseases! I had not seen him for some time prior to that (I wrote about it in diff post, I'm sure you'll see it).

My mother and I had come a long way...until I recently found out (Jan) that she has been having a secret relationship,for the last 10 years, with the brother that raped me!!That is truly an unforgivable issue with me. At this time, I am attempting to figure out what type of (if any) relationship she and I will have in the future.

GREG, I do believe that we were in fact  robbed of our youth, our innocence, our trust, our ability to bond with and be emotionally intimate with another person...!I also think the 12 Steps are good things to live by, I do work them, but in a much different manner and much safer place than where we were so brutally betrayed.

I think I do remember Rod,ask him if he remembers me, I worked in the salad area in kitchen under Johnny Whipple. I became good friends with many people there, Ron Hilliard,Franklin, Steven,...

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:27 ]

[Bigfrank]

After all this time, I don't want everybody to think that I dwell on the past or the seed, but I have been reading some of these posts, and there has been a lot of talk about getting beaten.. I don't remember anyone except for me getting a beaten... I think in one post Greg said that the staff at the seed would send for a seedlings father to come and do the beating if the seedling was getting to out of hand, but I don't remember anything like that... Did anybody on this forum ever go threw that? I am sure nobody ever went threw the humiliating thing that I went threw, I remember when he was whipping my ass with his belt, I was crying and begging him to stop and at one point I said that he wasn't my father and he said, I know I'm not, that if my father had done this a few times then maybe he wouldn't have had to do it... All I could think of was where does this freak get off, first treating me like a 5 year old by yanking down my pants before taking his belt to me, then making comments on how my father should have whipped my ass like this.... I don't think I would recognize him today because it was so long ago, but since I couldn't get him arressted or didn't know how to do it, I sure would love to turn the tables on him, now that I am bigger and see how he liked being treated like a little kid... I notice  a lot of people started in the seed at 14 just like I did, well you can only imagine how I felt being that age and to get "spanked" by a complete stranger.....

[FueLaw]

Frank, that is because when they beat someone they would take you in the back offices , away from the group, to beat you. I got my ass whipped by staff on at least three occasions, twice at the old Tropical Park facility, and once after they moved to State Road 84. Once was by a staff member named Mike , who was kind of tall and had light brown hair. The next was by Robert Chun, now mayor of Dania Beach, and a few other guys who whipped my ass, held me down, and let a female staff member cut my hair.



I was 14-15 at the time. Also because I was a little guy they would assign me to bathroom sign in, near the offices, and from time to time shit would happen back there.

[ This Message was edited by: FueLaw on 2002-08-20 15:13 ]

[Anonymous]

This is correct. It is not as if everyday someone would get physically restrained or hit or whatever. What happened, at least at St Pete, is that violence was used as a ever present inducemnt to keep you in line.
Thinking about running for the door? Just remember what happened to the last kid; Thrown hard to the floor and 5 door guards piled on and put in a headlock. I remember bloody elbows and screams of pain. Hows that for a deterrent?
Or, feel like acting up in group and telling people to fuck off? A trip to the back "offices" would be in order with a nice compliant misbehavior returning later sheepishly taking his place on second or third row without a peep. What happened to abrubtly change his attitude? Shit-don't know and don't wanna find out..
In St Pete, I believe they had been either decided on their own or willingly had stopped from actually hitting kids (exception-- I witnessed and shamefully participated in roughing up escape attempts) so they would bring the father in to slap around the misbehaviors. This was terrifying to a child. Now maybe the older kids weren't afraid and it was all a big game to them, but when you are 14 (13, 12,11 15,16) this shit is way scary and acutally served its deterrent purpose. It also served to burn a healthy distrust of authority in me.
Not only was violence used, but the Seed handily had the judges and police in their pocket in St Pete, and they were overjoyed to remind you of this constantly. "so you wanna run you punk, GO AHEAD! your stupid ass will be back here before you hit the end of the road, and then we will OWN you for six months"   remember this routine?
The seed sure preached love but spewed hate and violence.

[blue morphine]

>>>Not only was violence used, but the Seed handily had the judges and police in their pocket in St Pete, and they were overjoyed to remind you of this constantly. <<<

   absolutely correct! they also had many a judge in miami too.. alphonso sepe for one judge in particular. this judge would send people left and right to the seed..
 weird memories thats for sure..

  blue

[Bigfrank]

You are so right Blue, I mean about having the judges and police on their side... It's funny, but after I read your post I also remembered Judge Sepe... I knew a few people that were sent to the seed from Judge Sepe, he REALLY believed in the seed and all a parent would have to do with him is ask him to send their child to the seed, and he would do it, even if the charge was going to be dropped, he would keep the child in the court system so that he could make them continue with the seed..... Boy, BAD memories from the seed........

[GregFL]

In honor of Frank, I am posting this to bring his initial post back to the top. I think it is important for us all to read. Frank, Go in peace my friend....


GregFL.

A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa

[FueLaw]

Thanks for reposting this thread Greg.

Rest in peace "Big Frank"

[ehm]

I'm bumping this again for the same reason as Greg. Reading all of Bigfrank's posts, knowing he and I suffered the same  humiliations and horrors, and knowing how this, to this day effects the quality of my life. I still suffer to this day, 17 years later, because of this  nightmare of a program.

Although I have a 12 year old daughter of my own, whom I would never imprison/send away/take freedom away from, I still grieve for the loss of self I suffered from this place. I'm still trying to shake the aftermath. Still, fighting the humiliation and self loathing induced by The Seed, Straight, Inc. and their spawn.  

BTW - I have yet to ever hear of a 13 year old "drug addict." Thousands??? NO f-ing WAY.

 ::heart:: R.I.P Bigfrank, and all the others.

:nworthy: POWER TO US, THE SURVIVORS. :nworthy:

If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit  people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good?  Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?

--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850

[FueLaw]

This was bumped to the top for obvious reasons. Look at the date of the original post. Unfortunately Big Frank is no longer with us. I got racked up a little by some old comers to.

Do you still believe physical abuse never took place ?