We are not alone!

[Anonymous]

there are two anons greg

[Anonymous]

Gregg,

Actually, I?m in your camp in a way.  I have not seen first hand proof.  But I think it?s possible and almost probable.  Interestingly enough that is ?the
? Predominate governmental view, worldview aside from the United States. We will just have to wait and see, the jury?s still out.  I just enjoy looking and listening in on the topic. I hope it?s true to an extent. I?m hoping that maybe they can sort out our eve of destruction.  It?s a long shot but maybe lol!  Or then again they could be an alien biker gang>>>>

Regarding the ?Rapture?, I don?t believe in that, I believe it?s more of a metaphor than a literal story.  Maybe ascension to the Mother ship if there is one! LOL ahahha


Regarding the Hieroglyphics your wrong about that, the one I posted wasn?t Von Danikin, sp?  But I do have to prove it, so let me look in a few days, If I find it great, if I can?t then I?m wrong, The looking is the fun part.  

Anyway take care,

vsp

[Anonymous]

Here is a link to the Naska Lines in Peru.  what's you theroy on that?

http://www.crystalinks.com/nasca.html

vsp :question:

[Anonymous]

Cool. Would love to review the evidence here with you.

Just so you know, I would love to see evidence of Alien visitation to earth. I even suspect very strongly that life exists outside our little Space oasis, perhaps even very intelligent life (unlike us?). I even saw unexplained things in the sky growing up in St Pete, not realizing that one of the premier air force basis on the planet was just across the bay from my house.

The UFO community is a collection of crackpots that self feed on each other's erroneous information, wild explanations and fabrications. That doesn't mean that evidence cannot exist for Alien visitation. Where is it? People seem to assume that volumes of information denote legitimacy. It does not.

Didn't mean to be flip either to anon I was just in a whimsical mood.

Stones in Peru laid out in the shape of animals...very cool and unexplained. Still not evidence of Alien visitation.Unexplained or misunderstood doesn not automatically point to aliens. I will look a little into it because frankly I haven't formulated any opinion yet.

By the way, several times it has been mentioned about american astronauts and aliens on the moon. This is pure fabrication, and here are the unexciting links to the truth.


http://www.debunker.com/texts/apollo11.html

http://www.debunker.com/texts/astronaut_ufo.html
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-06-23 19:53 ]

[GregFL]

:wstupid:

me...forgot to log in...

[GregFL]

Okay, spent about 15 minutes researching the artifacts in Peru which makes me an armchair idiot of sorts on this topic. I really am not a expert in culture and/or archeology but when researching a topic I always exlude supernatural and conspiratoral websites and go to the people who are trained in the area in question. But even reviewing the "Crystallinks.com" paranormal site you linked me too which quotes the Fraud Erich von Daniken (chariots of the gods..a book that has been shamefully discredited within the archological community) indicates that much evidence exists for religious purposes for the drawings. More scientific sites are much clearer in their theory.. check this out....


"The purpose of the drawings is uncertain, but it is believed to be connected to their beliefs and economical systems. According to anthropologist Johan Reinhard, the Nazca people believed that mountain gods protected humans and controlled the weather. These gods also affected water sources and land fertilitysince they are associated with lakes, rivers and the sea. Each figure might have a different meaning for the Nazca people depending on their social class.

The straight lines, as sacred paths, from Nazca to Andean highlands are still used to bring water. Today, these lines are maintained for the religious merit of the people. The triangles and trapezoids are made for the flow of water and are placed near the river. People often have ceremonies beside the water flow. The figure of spirals depicts seashells and the ocean, and the figure of zigzags illustrates lightning and river. The bird figures, representing a heron, pelican or condor, are believed to be signs of faithfulness to the mountain gods. Other sea birds are associated with the ocean. Monkeys and lizards represent the hope for water. Shark or killer whale motifs show the success of fishing. Spiders, millipedes and plants are associated with the rain. Even though the Nazca River was located near this cultural area, river water was not enough to support their agricultural needs.

Some questions are still debated among specialists. Why were so many lines necessary? How and why did people draw such large figures on the ground without any aerial vision or aerial equipment? We may never understand the true meaning of the Nazca Lines, but we can decipher pieces of the traditional Andean people's belief system from these great geoglyphs."

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/ ... nazca.html

Now this subject demands a quick compare/contrast of the credulous mind versus the mind that craves real information. Some people would see these figures, not knowing crap about crap about Peruvian culture and just immediately assume something absolutely fantastical, supernatural or of alien origin was going on. In absense of any information whatsoever except like minded credulous people, they would even assume alien spacecrafts directed or assisted the Indians in making them. Remember that unexplained only means unexplained and humans have a less than credible  history of assigning supernatural answers to things we don't understand...lightning being bolts from heaven, etc.

the scientific, skeptical or rational person would seek information from sources that may prepose to have explanations that tend to make sense within the known body of information that exists, not create fantastical scenarios around an wonderous event or artifact.

Now, if one of those giant sculptures was a picture of ET on his bycycle phoning home, YOU WOULD THEN HAVE AN INTERESTING THEORY.

But alas, they all depict items common to their culture and religious worship is within the realm of believablility.

Why did they do it? It appears probably to appease their particular gods as they were looking down on them. How? I don't know but physically it is within the realm of possible and also the calculations aren't really that difficult to follow.

[GregFL]

more


"The Nasca lines became of interest to anthropologists after they were seen from the air in the 1930s. It is unlikely that a project of this magnitude was not religious in purpose. To involve the entire community for many centuries indicates the supreme significance of the site. Like pyramids, giant statues, and other monumental art, the Nasca art speaks of permanence. It says: we are here and we are not moving. These are not nomads, nor are they hunters and gatherers. This is an agricultural society. It is, of course, a pre-scientific agricultural society, who turned to magic and superstition (i.e., religion) to assist them with their crops. The Nacza had the knowledge to irrigate, plant, harvest, collect, distribute, etc. But the weather is fickle. Things might go smoothly for years, or even centuries, and then, in a single generation entire communities are forced to leave because of extended drought or because of floods or tidal waves, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, fires, or whatever else Mother Nature might hurl their way.

Was this a site for worship? Was this the Mecca of the Nasca? a place of pilgrimage? Were the images part of rituals aimed at appeasing the gods or asking for help with the fertility of the people and the crops, or with the weather or with a good supply of water? That the figures could not be seen as those in the heavens might see them would not be that important for religious or magical purposes. In any case, similar figures to the giants at Nasca decorate the pottery found in nearby burial sites and it is apparent from their cemeteries that the Nasca were preoccupied with death. Mummified remains litter the desert, discarded by grave robbers. Was this a place for rituals aimed at bringing immortality to the dead? We don't know, but if this mystery is ever to be cleared up it will be by serious scientists, not by alienated pseudoscientific speculators molding the data to fit their extraterrestrial musings."

http://nascaperu.com/

[GregFL]

Delving away from Peru to ancient Egypt...


http://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/vondaniken.html


Vondainiken started this bullshit. He is a fraud. People still believe that ancient depictions of astronauts exist. they do not.


vndaniken has even admitted to having artifacts made so people would believe his stories (after being caught of course).

Still, people still accept his fantasys at face value. The real question is why?

[GregFL]

VSP, you were referring to the "helicopter Glyph" I assume. It is a well researched glyph and has been discussed at length. This is from a pro UFO website that purports to actually investigate claims...

First thing of note is that the glyph exists but unfortunately the rendering you linked to has been altered and changed to appear more "helicopter like" and "submarine like" and "UFO like".  Check out this quote and then read the entire link and view both the altered picture and the acutal one. Feel cheated by the people who banter around the altered photo? You should... I think you will find the truth about this both enlightning and fascinating as I have after spending the last hour reading about it both by egyptian scholars and by UFO nuts.

":..., I am afraid that you have been subjected to the famous "Abydos helicopter" mania, here. There is a simple explanation to what you are seeing, at least, as we see it in Egyptology. There is no mystery here; it's just a _palimpsest_ (though without the use of that term, and which is defined as "... A manuscript, typically of papyrus or parchment, that has been written on more than once, with the earlier writing incompletely erased and often legible" AHED). It was decided in antiquity to replace the five-fold royal titulary of Seti I with that of his son and successor, Ramesses II. In the photos, we clearly see "Who repulses the Nine Bows," which figures in some of the Two-Ladies names of Seti I, replaced by "Who protects Egypt and overthrows the foreign countries," a Two-Ladies name of Ramesses II. With some of the plaster that once covered Seti I's titulary now fallen away, certain of the superimposed signs do indeed look like a submarine, etc., but it's just a coincidence.
What is happening in the photographs is quite clear; just consult Juergen von Beckerath, Handbuch der aegyptischen Koenigsnamen, Muenchner aegyptologische Studien 20, pages 235 and 237.
This issue comes up from time to time on such academic e-mail lists as the Ancient Near East (ANE) List and so on, so we're all pretty familiar with it. Regards. Katherine Griffis-Greenberg"
Member, American Research Center in Egypt
International Association of Egyptologists
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Special Studies


http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_us/m_arch ... bydos.html









[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-06-23 21:36 ]

[Anonymous]

That doesn't make sense.  How long ago was this billboard rewritten in the Egypt Temple? Was it last year with cement from Home Depot?  Nice try.  And by the way I don't necessarily support the sites, I'm just displaying links to pictures. Please attack the pictures, not the link.  Nasca Lines is a mystery; all your links are opinion and speculation.  No one knows for sure. It?s just damn odd, and some of these are miles long, no simple feat.  It was important and not for water flow like your link suggest. Most of these images are very shallow in rock depth.  

Beam me up!


Take Care,

vsp

[GregFL]

But VSP, it is egyptian WRITING that is easily translated by Scholars. Laymen like you and I cannot understand Heiroghlyphics (or even spell it). So my question to you is, do you think the egyptologists are participating in a conspiracy to cover up the helicopter? Second question...can't you see the blantant differences between the photo on the website you linked and the actual picture? Why is it necessary for the UFO nuts to embellish the picture? Why is this so common in the UFO community and so accepted?

As far as the Peruvian lines, it makes more sense to me that they were trying to appease the gods than to appease aliens. From our known body of knowledge we know that ancient civilizations worshipped multiple gods. We have no evidence of aliens. There is no certainty to the reason of the Images, but one must examine the evidence and opinions and decide Which explanation makes more sense. To me the one with history and probablity behind it not the one that requires imagination and faith in  unknown phenomena. Absense of knowledge should lead one to the most rational explanation

I find this subject fun but I gotta go to bed.

CyA!

[Anonymous]

I agree with you Greg that the Reason for the 'lines' was of a devotional nature. Or maybe just art.
For me the interest lies in this question:
"How and why did people draw such large figures on the ground without any aerial vision or aerial equipment?"
I am not trying to support the notion of alleins with referance to the lines. But *Something* not normally experainced by people in general was going on.
I like to consider and debate What that something was.

[GregFL]

Well, it is hard to debate something of which the answer is uncertain. We can speculate and we can surmise.  Keeping in mind that when more than one answer is available, it is much more likely that the simpler answer is correct.

The experts in Peruvian archeology have speculated as well.  Here is what some of them believe...


"The Nasca plain is virtually unique for its ability to preserve the markings upon it, due to the combination of the climate (one of the driest on Earth, with only twenty minutes of rainfall per year) and the flat, stony ground which minimises the effect of the wind at ground level. With no dust or sand to cover the plain, and little rain or wind to erode it, lines drawn here tend to stay drawn. These factors, combined with the existence of a lighter-coloured subsoil beneath the desert crust, provide a vast writing pad that is ideally suited to the artist who wants to leave his mark for eternity.

The pebbles which cover the surface of the desert contain ferrous oxide. The exposure of centuries has given them a dark patina. When the gravel is removed, they contrast with the color underneath. In this way the lines were drawn as furrows of a lighter color, even though in some cases they became prints. In other cases, the stones defining the lines and drawings form small lateral humps of different sizes. Some drawings, especially the early ones, were made by removing the stones and gravel from their contours and in this way the figures stood out in high relief.

The concentration and juxtaposition of the lines and drawings leave no doubt that they required intensive long-term labor as is demonstrated by the stylistic continuity of the designs, which clearly correspond to the different stages of cultural changes."


http://nascaperu.com/nasca_and_nazca.htm



So my answer is.....I don't know. I am willing to accept that I can't know everything. I see no evidence of supernatural or superwonderous here, tho.  Much like the pyramids in this region and in other areas of the world, Man of the last 5000 or so years thousand  ago was capable of much more than we tend to give them credit for now. Keep in mind that slave labor was virtually free back then and time was of no essence. It possibly took hundreds of years to finish all these designs. But math existed. Artistry existed. complicated building structures and techniques existed. It is not out of the realm of the ordinary that this could be accomplished, it is just really cool that it was.

[GregFL]

As far as "How", they pretty much know as evidenced by the writing above.

As to "why" one can only speculate. I tend to lean toward giving the gods something pleasing to look down upon so to bless them with rainfall and/or good crops. This seems about as reasonable an explanation as available.

[Anonymous]

The erosion theory regarding the Helicopter and plane doesn't make sense to me.  I do see that the two pictures don't match up, however in the older original version the plane and chopper are visible. Erosion from water or wind doesn't happen with straight sharp lines, they would be rounded and irregular.  And if this were a layer flaking off the same would hold true.  It wouldn't be perfect straight lines.  It just doesn't look right; I'll look into it more when I have a chance, but liked reading the articles you posted. Regarding the Egyptian officials, they have been notorious about no granting rights for serious investigations on a number of sensitive sites for many years.  There is supposed to be a big room under the foot of the Sphinx.  They believe it to be the hall of records, which has been mentioned in many Egyptian texts.  Who knows, but it is very interesting to read and learn, maybe someday after this damn war we are in, I'll go and look for my self.  

Take Care,

vsp