AA Abundant Life Academy

[Anonymous]

Deborah - you are so quick to throw stones....wasn't your son in a program? Are you saying you were an ineffective parent, or are you "blaming" your husband (ex)?  Either way, I disagree that the parents are 100% to blame for the choices their kids make.  Some parents are asked what they would do differently, and some say they did everything in their power and knowledge to keep their child out of harms way and it failed until they chose a Program to not only help their child, but to help them too.  It's the hard way doing it all yourself.  I have no experience of ALA, and don't agree with the GOD heals model.  Every person can heal with the right kind of help.  It's all in how you interpret where that help comes from...God, higher power, will power, or from the outside in.  Lots of other ways.

[Deborah]

***Deborah - you are so quick to throw stones***

No, I actually agree with Roger's take on what the primary issue is for many kids these days, "Entitlement".

Another way to say that is that parents gave and taught nothing. Didn't teach their children anything about reality, how to function in a family/group setting, how to negotiate/cooperate. Never expected them to participate in the care/maintainence of the home they share. I've known many. Children aren't born with a sense of entitlement. It is learned, they are conditioned... and by someone... usually parents. It sometimes works well provided the parent has the financial means to continue paying the bribe money to keep their kid 'on track'.

I depart with the methods of 'fixin the problem'. I think the parents need help as much or more than the teens. They haven't a clue what the 'real' needs of a human being are, apparently. I believe the teen is being scapegoated for the parents ignorance, neglect, whatever the case may be.

It's as absurd to me, as stripping the parent of their rights, incarcerating them until they 'get it'- how to be better parents. Wouldn't that be hoot? Especially for the run of the mill parent (like the run of the mill kids at ALA) who isn't beating or molesting their kids. I'm talking about the one's who 'spoil' their kids and then punish them for acting 'spoiled'. Do you see any connection there?
Labeling teens as "troubled" and warehousing them is equally absurd to me.

The teen gets shipped out because it's mom and dad who pay the program fees. They carry on with their merry life, usually more merry after the teen is gone, while the kid is incarcerated and treated like a prisoner.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-23 21:25:00, Deborah wrote:

"***Deborah - you are so quick to throw stones***



No, I actually agree with Roger's take on what the primary issue is for many kids these days, "Entitlement".



Another way to say that is that parents gave and taught nothing. Didn't teach their children anything about reality, how to function in a family/group setting, how to negotiate/cooperate. Never expected them to participate in the care/maintainence of the home they share. I've known many. Children aren't born with a sense of entitlement. It is learned, they are conditioned... and by someone... usually parents. It sometimes works well provided the parent has the financial means to continue paying the bribe money to keep their kid 'on track'.



I depart with the methods of 'fixin the problem'. I think the parents need help as much or more than the teens. They haven't a clue what the 'real' needs of a human being are, apparently. I believe the teen is being scapegoated for the parents ignorance, neglect, whatever the case may be.



It's as absurd to me, as stripping the parent of their rights, incarcerating them until they 'get it'- how to be better parents. Wouldn't that be hoot? Especially for the run of the mill parent (like the run of the mill kids at ALA) who isn't beating or molesting their kids. I'm talking about the one's who 'spoil' their kids and then punish them for acting 'spoiled'. Do you see any connection there?

Labeling teens as "troubled" and warehousing them is equally absurd to me.



The teen gets shipped out because it's mom and dad who pay the program fees. They carry on with their merry life, usually more merry after the teen is gone, while the kid is incarcerated and treated like a prisoner.





"

 :nworthy:

Parents who ship their kids off to these teen warehouses have a million excuses but the bottom line is they lost control of their kids and are desperate to get it back.  At any price.  Spend the kid's college fund, take a 2nd mortgage out on the family home, recruit other teens to pay the tuition, the list goes on.  It isn't about saving kids, it's about control.

[Anonymous]

[The teen gets shipped out because it's mom and dad who pay the program fees. They carry on with their merry life, usually more merry after the teen is gone, while the kid is incarcerated and treated like a prisoner.]

Unless they are part of the WWASPS program...the parents are doing a lot of inner work through seminars and support group meetings, not to mention all the time in between.  There's a lot of practices between seminars, parent/teen workshops, therapy visits and phone calls.  It's not a time for 100% play, though play is important too.  It takes the whole family to create a healthy family.

[Deborah]

Craig,
You said:
His business has never employed professional staff, never had a student, NOR ANY FORMAL AGREEMENT OR CONTRACT with Abundant Life Academy of Utah.
And:
May it be known that Abundant Life Academy of Utah paid ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? $52,000.00 US Dollars over from May through September 2003. The payments were made in good faith with the expectation that ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? would deliever on their promises to provide room and board, along with food services to the students of Abundant Life Academy. ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? failed miserably to perform their verbal agreement to deliver stated promises.
***

To clarify- You entrusted other people's children to a person in another country who you had no real knowledge of or formal business agreement or contract with, much less background checks on. You only had a VERBAL agreement for the 24/7 care of teens in your charge?

Your discourse leaves many questions. One being how your defense will hold up in court without a legal business agreement/contract and proof that Aparicio didn't uphold his end of the bargain.

If Aparicio was shuffling the funds intended for the teen's care to Bettencort, what exactly were the conditions under which the teens were living? Did they have inadequate food, housing? Were they hungry and sleeping on the street or in lean-tos?

Based on what you've shared, I get the impression that you made some serious mistakes, demonstrated poor judgement, and possibly put some teens at risk of abuse or neglect.

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-23 19:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Speaking of transporters ...



http://strugglingteens.com/archives/200 ... gmyth.html



Well, some of these outfits may be more kind, more gentle, more respectful but kids are still being awakened in the middle of the night and forced into institutionalized-style programs so Mom and Dad don't have to do the dirty deed, themselves.  



 :roll: "

Some teens are willing to get help, others will go under false pretense, and then there is the need for escorting.

Can anyone attribute that bit of marketing bullshit?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin

[Antigen]

The term "Bible Thumper" derives from the days of the old Holy Roman Catholic crusades. They were the recruiters who'd stand at the village squares, thumping the Bible (which few, if any, of their audience were able to read) and promising great wealth, glory and adventure to those young men who would don the holy cross and march off to liberate the holy land from the heathen Moores.

Not much has changed.

You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job

[Anonymous]

Deb -
No I didn't change my mind. I don't see the two statements as being inconsistent. Maybe knowing what?s in my own head keeps me from being able to see clearly how it sounds to others.

As for the questions you ask Craig; I?m not up on details; but I do know the kids didn't go without food or housing - because while all that was going on, my son was there. The boys weren't affected in any noticeable way.  The food was plentiful; and good, I?m told, tho sometimes a bit spicy. My son came home knowing how to cook a good meal,and with a taste for hot sauce. He even puts it on his popcorn now. He likes to go to the grocery now, b/c he wants to buy the food he ate and learned how to fix in MX.  
As for the consequences to ALA, I am under the impression the result was to make finances tight for a while; but it was the staff who sacrificed so the situation could be salvaged.

Ginger - Why slap the derogatory epitaph of Bible Thumper on here? This is a thread about a Christian Program. Doesn?t it follow that some expressing of Christian thought might be proper?
Besides, as you point out; back then, the common folk were illiterate and had to take the 'thumpers' word for what was in The Book. Today, we most all of us can read and so can find out for ourselves what The Book has to say. And so, "Thumping" is no longer necessary.

[Deborah]

***As for the questions you ask Craig; I?m not up on details; but I do know the kids didn't go without food or housing - because while all that was going on, my son was there. The boys weren't affected in any noticeable way. The food was plentiful; and good, I?m told, tho sometimes a bit spicy. My son came home knowing how to cook a good meal,and with a taste for hot sauce. He even puts it on his popcorn now. He likes to go to the grocery now, b/c he wants to buy the food he ate and learned how to fix in MX.***

That sounds to me like Aparicio upheld his end of the VERBAL agreement, which was as Craig stated, "to provide room, board, and food services for the students of ALA."
and
"The payments (52K) were made in good faith with the expectation that ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? would deliever on their promises to provide room and board, along with food services to the students of ALA. ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? failed miserably to perform their verbal agreement to deliver stated promises.

According to you the teens had shelter and more than adequate food AND apparently learned some valuable life skills while there.

Which one of you is confused about what was or was not provided to ALA students.

And a question that has really been bugging me, like a knat that won't go away....
If Aparicio had no formal contract with Rogers and basically provided 'services for a fee'- how would he have access to ALA coffers to embezel funds?

Craig said, "It was also discovered that Josue Aparicio was embezzling funds from Abundant Life Academy of Utah, which was the reason ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? failed to deliever and perform their verbal agreement to provide room, board, and food services. Basically, we believe that he was taking the money meant for the students of Abundant Life Academy and giving it to Patricia Bettencort."

Does Craig have a hard-on for Bettencort or something? What was the agreement between Aparicio and Bettencort? What business is it of Craig's if Aparicio gave all the 'profit' to her?

He apparently was not giving money meant for the students to Bettencort, if what you claim is true. Roger's explanation is incoherent and reeks of dishonesty... in my opinion of course.

[Anonymous]

Deb you are talking to Karen Z.  Her son was at ALA.

[Anonymous]

Let me add, in Mexico.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think Karen Burnett has a good heart but should stick to rescuing abused animals instead of wayward teens.  I mean this is a lady who not so long ago had her son transported to a program in Costa Rica, instead of taking him, herself.  If anybody should know what the ed con, independent referral and transport racket is all about it, it's Karen, but apparently, she has yet to take the rose-colored glasses off long enough to see the truth.  Wake up Karen, ministering to parents who lock their kids up in some money-making program is NOT a calling from God.  It's the Devil's work.

[Deborah]

Anonymous wrote:
"Deb you are talking to Karen Z.  Her son was at ALA."

I assumed as much.

[Anonymous]

More discussion on the ALA Saga can be found on Amazing Forums. Personally, it's hard to know what to think or who to believe but I do think Deborah raises some valid points.

http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/184.html

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-24 10:00:00, Anonymous wrote:


Ginger - Why slap the derogatory epitaph of Bible Thumper on here? This is a thread about a Christian Program. Doesn?t it follow that some expressing of Christian thought might be proper?

Besides, as you point out; back then, the common folk were illiterate and had to take the 'thumpers' word for what was in The Book. Today, we most all of us can read and so can find out for ourselves what The Book has to say. And so, "Thumping" is no longer necessary.

Good point! Since you can read for yourself, why on Earth would you buy into some obvious ruse about what God is calling you to do? What? Does Craig Rogers have some kind of special access to God so that he knows better than anybody else what God wants us all to do?

This is what the Bible thumpers did. They went around recruiting for war and blaming it all on God. "God wants you to go liberate Jeruselem!" Yeah, right. And I suppose God wants me to take out a second mortgage so you can do his work on my kid, right?

Here's some folk wisdom you might find useful. If someone's telling you it's raining, look down and make sure they're not just wizzing on your leg.

Do you actually believe this rot? And how do you reconcile the Craig Rogers who's wisdom and devine enlightenment saved your kid w/ the Craig Rogers who is now, apparently, at odds w/ the kid's boss?

God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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