General Interest > Tacitus' Realm

The Truth about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin

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Froderik:
Stefan Molyneux, host of Freedomain Radio, discusses the background,
evidence and reality of the George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc

psy:
The guy makes valid points, but people are too emotional to think rationally about this. Here is a lawyer's analysis.  IMO, the verdict was the right one.


--- Quote ---First, let us agree that our personal opinions do not matter. Only the LETTER OF THE LAW matters, and the EVIDENCE matters.

1) The law states that on public property he had the legal right to follow Trayvon as he was on public property (plus the 9/11 operator asked which way he went).

2) According to the self defense laws in their state, the circumstances leading up to the attack are irrelevant- all that matters is 1) whether or not Zimmerman felt he was in danger of great bodily harm or death, and 2) whether Zimmerman had done anything illegal to provoke the assault. He had done nothing illegal.

3) The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove without a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman's life was NOT in danger when he shot Trayvon. Zimmerman is to be presumed innocent, unless it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt, that he killed Trayvon WITHOUT fear.

4) The forensic expert, the only eyewitness, Zimmerman's injuries, and the way Trayvon was shot all prove that Trayvon WAS in fact, beating Zimmerman, on top of him, MMA style ground and pound, and there was a witness saying Zimmerman was screaming for help, along with the fact that people who examined both bodies stated matter of factly that Trayvon (6'3, buff) was in much better shape than Zimmerman.

5) There is recordings that show that trayvon did not stop beating Zimmerman, even when Zimmerman screamed for his life (like a little girl, sadly enough) and Trayvon had clearly won the fight. This wasnt a case of "throw a couple punches". Zimmerman was nearing unconsciousness, his head was getting beat into the pavement, and he was worried for his life- or at least I would be. I know I would. I know any person would.

6) Trayvon threw the first punch, knocked Zimmerman down, and beat on him, and the only evidence has proven this. Zimmerman should NOT be in jail because legally, every single piece of evidence points to his acquittal as not guilty. It is impossible to prove that Zimmerman did not feel his life or great bodily harm was in danger, considering he was getting his faced bashed into the concrete by a racist kid who called him "creepy *** cracker".

It does not matter if Zimmerman was "prejudiced" or not (even though Trayvon was the one who made racial slurs and had the violent racial anger); it does NOT MATTER who stalked who, because it was on public property and was LEGAL according to the law; it does not matter how old Trayvon was, but also Trayvon was 17 and he was a buff 6'3 football player anyway, way taller bigger stronger and more muscular, with better cardio and fight skills, than zimmerman; it does not matter whether you personally think little Trayvon was cute in his picture; it does not matter if you seethe with self loathing anger at the sight of Zimmerman, an upstanding citizen, trying to protect his community.

The only thing that matters are the facts, and the facts prove him Not Guilty because there is clearly a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman may have been fearing for his life or great bodily harm. In fact, its almost PROVEN that zimmerman feared for his life/great bodily harm. Forget a reasonable doubt! This case is LITERALLY OPEN AND SHUT for anybody with a brain who looks at it honestly and objectively.
--- End quote ---

Zimmerman should never have been prosecuted for political purposes and it sickens me that people are attempting to play politics with Trayvon's death.  So far as I can tell, Zimmerman was not a racist, so that is not at issue.  Nor is the "stand your ground" statute, as it wasn't even used in this case.  It's not about gun control either.  Those trying to pretend it's about any of these things are either using others, or are being used.

Oscar:
Racism or not: I am just stating:

If you came to my neighborhood in Denmark and had a dark skin or just looked undanish your license plate would be written down by one of the pensioners walking their dogs, the police would get a tip and you would be 100 percent more likely to be checked by security guards, the local police which would "happens" to be there.

In the public eye most crime in Denmark is done by second or third generation immigrants and tourists from Eastern Europe. Of course there is a little chance that you will get shot because only the police are allowed to be armed. But the mentality is the same. Strangers are a threat!

I feel that it is a tragedy that he was shot but I don't buy that it is racism. It is community who just donít like guest. Zimmerman is just a representative for the community. They are all to blame.

RTP2003:

--- Quote from: "psy" ---The guy makes valid points, but people are too emotional to think rationally about this. Here is a lawyer's analysis.  IMO, the verdict was the right one.


--- Quote ---First, let us agree that our personal opinions do not matter. Only the LETTER OF THE LAW matters, and the EVIDENCE matters.

1) The law states that on public property he had the legal right to follow Trayvon as he was on public property (plus the 9/11 operator asked which way he went).

2) According to the self defense laws in their state, the circumstances leading up to the attack are irrelevant- all that matters is 1) whether or not Zimmerman felt he was in danger of great bodily harm or death, and 2) whether Zimmerman had done anything illegal to provoke the assault. He had done nothing illegal.

3) The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove without a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman's life was NOT in danger when he shot Trayvon. Zimmerman is to be presumed innocent, unless it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt, that he killed Trayvon WITHOUT fear.

4) The forensic expert, the only eyewitness, Zimmerman's injuries, and the way Trayvon was shot all prove that Trayvon WAS in fact, beating Zimmerman, on top of him, MMA style ground and pound, and there was a witness saying Zimmerman was screaming for help, along with the fact that people who examined both bodies stated matter of factly that Trayvon (6'3, buff) was in much better shape than Zimmerman.

5) There is recordings that show that trayvon did not stop beating Zimmerman, even when Zimmerman screamed for his life (like a little girl, sadly enough) and Trayvon had clearly won the fight. This wasnt a case of "throw a couple punches". Zimmerman was nearing unconsciousness, his head was getting beat into the pavement, and he was worried for his life- or at least I would be. I know I would. I know any person would.

6) Trayvon threw the first punch, knocked Zimmerman down, and beat on him, and the only evidence has proven this. Zimmerman should NOT be in jail because legally, every single piece of evidence points to his acquittal as not guilty. It is impossible to prove that Zimmerman did not feel his life or great bodily harm was in danger, considering he was getting his faced bashed into the concrete by a racist kid who called him "creepy *** cracker".

It does not matter if Zimmerman was "prejudiced" or not (even though Trayvon was the one who made racial slurs and had the violent racial anger); it does NOT MATTER who stalked who, because it was on public property and was LEGAL according to the law; it does not matter how old Trayvon was, but also Trayvon was 17 and he was a buff 6'3 football player anyway, way taller bigger stronger and more muscular, with better cardio and fight skills, than zimmerman; it does not matter whether you personally think little Trayvon was cute in his picture; it does not matter if you seethe with self loathing anger at the sight of Zimmerman, an upstanding citizen, trying to protect his community.

The only thing that matters are the facts, and the facts prove him Not Guilty because there is clearly a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman may have been fearing for his life or great bodily harm. In fact, its almost PROVEN that zimmerman feared for his life/great bodily harm. Forget a reasonable doubt! This case is LITERALLY OPEN AND SHUT for anybody with a brain who looks at it honestly and objectively.
--- End quote ---

Zimmerman should never have been prosecuted for political purposes and it sickens me that people are attempting to play politics with Trayvon's death.  So far as I can tell, Zimmerman was not a racist, so that is not at issue.  Nor is the "stand your ground" statute, as it wasn't even used in this case.  It's not about gun control either.  Those trying to pretend it's about any of these things are either using others, or are being used.
--- End quote ---

 :tup:

Troublemaker:
Zimmerman  is a scumbag and if this kid was white he would be alive today. Anyone who says this isn't about race is wrong or a liar

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