Here is my take on the subject.

[Anonymous]

What WWASP tortures children?  When?  No quoting newspaper articles or heresay...just the facts, please.

[Froderik]

I don't know where you heard such a thing. WWASP torturing children? Places like Tranquility Bay and Dundee Ranch are highly reputable. Just visit their websites and see for yourself.  :rofl:

I am joking BTW. (How DARE I do a thing like that on an "adult" forum)  :lol:

Ok seriously, would someone fill them in please?
(There is plenty of evidence of abuse in these facilities)

[Antigen]

cayohueso
I wouldn't have taken the money knowing where it came from

That's where I've always had a big problem with any civil suites against these programs. Think about the outcome of Phil's work in winning settlements for Lulu and Rebecca. Total settlements added up to $11.5mil and Virgil is now in bankrupsy. That's good. Rebecca and Lulu will never have to worry about money ever again. That's good. Phil enhanced his career by doing good work for a good cause. I generally don't like lawyers, but Phil is a singular hero of mine; an exception that proves the rule.

But where did the money come from? Not from Virgil. He just divested himself of all his assetts into the Christ at the Beach Foundation. And, since he lives in Florida, bankrupsy doesn't really mean much. He gets to keep up to a 5 bdrm house, some number of acres, a car (even if it were a Jag) for ever member of the household who's old enough to drive and then some.

The money came from the insurance companies, who then passed their loss onto their policy holders.

Now we're set to sue I don't know who over Straight, Inc. The Semblers? Where'd they get that money? The taxpayors of Florida?

If you think this coming suit won't hurt some innocent people, think again. The bad guys at the center of it have a history of culling their flock and throwing selected lambs to the wolves whenever they start feeling a little heat.

I'll join a class action, though, if one is filed. I think it'll bring some publicity to our cause, make people think a little bit about it. And I might even get back some portion of my inheritance that my mother handed over to the Semblers all those years ago. It's not all good. But I've given it s good deal of thought and decided that, on balance, it's mostly good.

Anonymous
You're trying to simplfy the truth by creating false insinuations wont stand up in court.

Who here is not trying to oversimplify the situation?

When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco.  Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.

1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop

[Anonymous]

not tainted money Carey?  Tell that to Judas and Christ.

[Anonymous]

How about those three kids that testified at the Farmer trial?  Is that proof enough.  A Judge found them credible.  That alone is good enough for me.

[Anonymous]

Cayo is right. Carey is PIG SLOP, so let's just move on.  I think I got the answer to yesterday's thread too.  Is it hosebeast?

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-16 11:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What WWASP tortures children?  When? "

Thank you for posing this question, Anon. It well illustrates a point I'm trying hard to make here.

In their view, WWASP is not torturing anybody. They're helping everybody and taking all kinds of flack for it. That is not just a cover story for them. They believe it. Jim Jones' followers, for the most part, believed in everything they were involved in too and so did most Germans throughout WWII.

I view it very differently. WWASP is, as I understand it, a corporation set up to facilitate recruiting for these schools and programs. The people who make up this corporation have a long history of direct involvement in these types of programs, but they're not involved at the moment, at least not on paper.

To say that WWASP does not torture children is like saying if you hire a hit man, then it's not murder. You'd have to believe either that what goes on in these schools and programs is not torture (and some people do believe that) or you'd have to believe that they have nothing to do with getting kids into these programs, which doesn't make any sense at all. Even they don't deny that.

On 2003-12-16 11:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
No quoting newspaper articles or heresay...just the facts, please.  

This is the good part. I can't even find a definition from the Nizkor list to cover this. But it's just so damned familiar, it really needs a name. Maybe someone can help.

It has to do with defining the rules of engagement in an illogical way. You want proof that WWASP tortures children. But you won't accept any of the evidence as valid. In order to hold WWASP harmless, you have to ignore it all. Newspapers, court testimoney, eye witness accounts, financial interest.

What, exactly, would you accept as proof? Would someone have to come up with a video tape showing a kid in OP, starting some time before the event to proove he didn't bring it on himself? That will never happen, or at least it's extremely unlikely. That's one reason, imo, for the full body cavity search. As long as you rule out evidence you can't control, you can always be right.

Incidentally or not, this is just exactly how the DFAF and their philisophical bretheren went about killing Anonymity Anonymous

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ginger -

Your forum, as well as others, say that all programs for teens are torture.  I guess it all depends on your definition of torture.  Juvenile prison is torture, not just mentally, but physically.  Suicide, cutting (self torture) bulemia, anorexia...symptoms of ADD (anger, self medication, stomped on self esteem by teachers, etc.) are torture as well.  

Finding a program where the underlying reasons for teens self abusing can also be torture - for the parents that have tried so much and still nothing is bringing their child to be what could be considered normal.  They torture themselves for not being able to handle it themselves.  Torture for the kids that can no longer manipulate their parents into whatever they are manipulating them into.  

Rules to following can be torture, sitting in an isolation room can be torture.  Parents getting letters from their kid saying they are being abused can be torture.  Separation can be torture.

Choices can be painful.

Watching your child destroy their life can be torture, even more torture, in the worst case, would be a lifetime of torture if the child dies and you didn't do anything.  

So wwasp torture children...I guess all of these types of schools also torture children. These programs are "private pay" and that makes it a bad thing?  What about the state run facilities that hire unqualified staff?  Does it make it better because we are all paying for them?  Problem with those types of programs/whatever you call them, is that are so short term, they rarely have positive results. Children in the private pay schools not only learn to make better choices, they actually have the time to apply what they've learned.  

Do they come home perfect little robots?  I wouldn't think so.  They are better prepared for life's challenges, though...assuming they complete the entire program.  Do they fall?  I'm sure they do, we all do in life. We fall, we get up, we fall, we get up again...or not.  

Your analogy of Jim Jones is digging pretty low, Ginger. Go to any bookstore and you'll find racks and racks of self-help books. The same things that these schools are actually having the students apply (Bradshaw, Covey, Thom Hartmann...just to name a couple).. not to just read.

Is it torture...could be, just depends on your perception. Kinda like newspaper articles and he said/she said allegations.

[Froderik]

Don't worry, someone will come along any minute with alot more to say about this. I will offer you this advice on the fly though - do some more reading before you jump to that conclusion. Do a google search on Tranquility Bay, etc. and see what you find...
Ok, next -

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2003-12-16 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Cayo is right. Carey is PIG SLOP, so let's just move on.  I think I got the answer to yesterday's thread too.  Is it hosebeast?"

DO NOT include me in the name calling :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim: I never said ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

--Thomas Jefferson, 1791, in a letter to Archibald Stuart

[Carey]

Amberly gave her statement to Pani when the Costa Rican Gov came into the situation. It was then safe for her to do so. Sue had nothing to do with it.

Anon, that is a bold face lie. Who ever you are Anon,  if you are a trekker you know that.

She did give a statement to the PANI, but it has changed three times.  As a matter of fact it has changed since then.  The one I saw at my depo was totally different.  Why is it changeing? Is it because Sue is helping her to remember what happened?  Yes!  Sue had everything to do with it.  Sue needed Amberly and Randal for her court case, not the Huron case, but her court case.   She told me that herself, Sue that is.  

What was Amberly afraid of back then, that she should not be afraid of now?  Why is it safe for her to now speak out?  Why has her story changed?  Oh is it because of the protection of Sue's attorneys. Or could it be the Mafia, the Litchfields are in the Mafia, according to Sue. Is that what she is afraid of?

Wake up people.

 

not tainted money Carey? Tell that to Judas and Christ

Sorry, in my opinon Sue is not the saviour of our youth.   She is an individual who exploits families.  

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-12-16 13:33 ]

[Anonymous]

Carey,

Everyone has woken up to you.  You've cost this board more aggrevation than anyone ever.  Take your $12,500 and your pack of lies and go do what you do best, pedal it!

[Antigen]

Folks, I copied this whole post over to a new thread:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3865&forum=9

This is a new idea. If it goes badly, I probably won't try it ever again.

I locked the other topic just for now. I don't plan on locking any topics in futre based on whether or not I like what people are saying.

I'm requesting that we limit discussion in the other topic to serious debate of the issues.

I'll unlock the other topic in... say... an hour or so.

Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog

[Carey]

Oh Anon, I am going to do just what you say.  Get real.

[Anonymous]

Sue is a mess too for taking that rediculous amount of money from you, but at least she helped you get your children out of the situation they were in, and babysat your sorry ass.