invitation to speak on national radio about programs

[wdtony]

I didn't get to hear the entire show due to a computer glitch so I had hoped that Anti- had gotten a chance to speak. I think she always does very well with "summing up" these issues.

Che, you worked in programs, I am trying to attack the point of no 3rd party complaints. If Law Enforcement/CPS could legally investigate allegations from 3rd parties about programs (like they do in in a private citizen's homes) that would be cheap and at least somewhat effective, right?   You know, like a wedge to get things started.

but I know there must be huge legal issues to contend with etc.   So when people have tried this avenue before what problems did they run into?

[none-ya]

Tell me how you interview and compliment a filmaker when you havn't seen his work. Mark needs to do more research.
Again,not one mention of fornits.

[Che Gookin]

Che, you worked in programs, I am trying to attack the point of no 3rd party complaints. If Law Enforcement/CPS could legally investigate allegations from 3rd parties about programs (like they do in in a private citizen's homes) that would be cheap and at least somewhat effective, right?   You know, like a wedge to get things started.

but I know there must be huge legal issues to contend with etc.   So when people have tried this avenue before what problems did they run into?

I've seen the police come a couple times. They rarely stayed long or seemed to care all that much. I do think 3rd party complaints can work though.

Remember the Boonseville incident with the WWASP program? A bunch of rabble rousers, if I recall were stirred up by a certain web forum called Fornits, ended up at a Boonesville City council meeting and got the license for a WWASP program denied.

So 3rd party complaints can work... it probably just is a matter of what your approach is and how swiftly you strike your targets of opportunity. I think with the police though.. They want to see a 1st hand witness, because most of the police and CPS do work fairly hard at whatever it is they do... eat donuts.. beat people up.. stuff kids into abusive foster homes etc.. and I don't think they are going to want to spend alot of time on a 3rd party complaint that isn't an actual witness to an abusive witness.

This is what I'd do if I had the time, money, and was in the same city as the program.

I'd find out where they all tend to drink. I'd sit quietly in a corner and wait for them to get half liquored up, and then I'd wait for the war stories to start before pushing play on my audio recorder.

You haven't heard fucked gossip like program staff flapping their jaws about who did what and so forth. It's a veritable cornucopia of human degeneracy being spewed out of drunken lips just begging to be posted on youtube and having the audio file emailed to every single member of the program and the city they live in.

[wdtony]

Well Che, I see what you're sayin. I knew you'd have some insight into this kind of thing.

I guess I just don't have a lot of faith in expensive, no teeth legislation. And states haven't been takin care of business here. And let's face it, even if we did things the way you and I know we want to do them, the outcome wouldn't be that effective overall....probably just make a lot of noise and make things worse for the cause.

I am trying to think of a solution that is cheap and effective with some simple changes in law.

It seems like lately something is forming...media is more involved, way more people are coming together.... I don't know, it just seems like there are so many webpages against programs now compared to 4 years ago. So there's hope.

There was a time after I left KHK that if I would have had the information that is presented online today.....I mean, I was a crazy kid..... I am not sure I would have remained inactive. and with all the kids on psyche drugs shooting up schools and the like..... some very bad things could happen to those who abuse these kids.

I just hope something can be done by law before the street justice begins. Because nobody really wins when pushed to that point. And kids won't see that.

You got a good idea, which is basically sneaky evidence gathering. Now to find that watering hole.......

[Che Gookin]

Well Che, I see what you're sayin. I knew you'd have some insight into this kind of thing.

You could always try.. I might be completely talking out of my ass. It only costs you a phone call or two.

I guess I just don't have a lot of faith in expensive, no teeth legislation. And states haven't been takin care of business here. And let's face it, even if we did things the way you and I know we want to do them, the outcome wouldn't be that effective overall....probably just make a lot of noise and make things worse for the cause.

Yeah.. both dumps I worked at were licensed.. Ginger will tell the story about the state of florida notices on the wall for Straight.. Elan was licensed in its weird ol' way by Maine.. so on and so forth..

Hell.. Not even the state of New Yawk or wherever it is the Rothenberg shock em till they drop Center is will shut down shock therapy right now let alone years ago when they should have.

Licensing is more bullshit, new wrapper, no way to put the boots to the places.

I am trying to think of a solution that is cheap and effective with some simple changes in law.

Qui Tam suits.. government will give you money for blowing the whistle on fraud. Several programs would be ripped a new one if staff started squealing about what really goes on there and what really the government is paying for.

It seems like lately something is forming...media is more involved, way more people are coming together.... I don't know, it just seems like there are so many webpages against programs now compared to 4 years ago. So there's hope.

Let's just hope this new wave of interest doesn't pass it over like the interest after the GAO hearings did.

There was a time after I left KHK that if I would have had the information that is presented online today.....I mean, I was a crazy kid..... I am not sure I would have remained inactive. and with all the kids on psyche drugs shooting up schools and the like..... some very bad things could happen to those who abuse these kids.

Punisher time...  

I just hope something can be done by law before the street justice begins. Because nobody really wins when pushed to that point. And kids won't see that.

On the otherside though.. street justice would force people to examine the issues in a new light. It doesn't take too much to ask, "Well wtf.. why are they going after these poor ol' programmie kool-aid swillers.. maybe these kids don't like getting the fuck beat out of them??"

Could easily go the other way as well.. hard to say.

You got a good idea, which is basically sneaky evidence gathering. Now to find that watering hole.......

One thing I'm pretty sure will work is you claim you work for another program and are in the area visiting or something. Use some of your own war stories from KHK for your basis of reality and soon you'll be trading yarn for yarn.

Cell-phones have voice recorders.

[Antigen]

Holy shit! I wanna roll with youuuuuu! LOL

Didn't get a chance to hear last night's show. Silly phone wouldn't play any of the streams that I tried and my internet access is limited as hell since some jack ass stole my computer. Hope it went well. I like your idea, Che. Wouldn't have thought of it cause Seed/Straight staff wouldn't be caught dead in a bar. Nother nifty idea I've tossed around. Call up the *other* kind of escort services, ask them to do to your 16yo daughter what teen escorts do. Play THAT on youtube.

And yes, no, I have just about 0 faith in regulation to do anything meaningful or useful. When they hung signs on the walls in Straigt saying "Call 1-800-xxx-xxxx to report abuse" it was demoralizing. The well intended bastards forgot to include regulations preventing us being slammed to the floor for reaching for a phone.

But the folks behind the legislation are going to go full bore with it anyway so we may as well take what we can get. The legislative process generates lots of documentation, statements, evidene.... publicity. Any publicity is good publicity, right? And at least it might actually cause *some* better access by CYS types to these programs. You dance right close to the nut of the prblem, Che. The real issue is not a lack of laws and regulations against torture. It's a broad conspiracy among cops et all to unsee it even when we shove it right in their faces. THAT has got to change if our society is to go down in history as anything other than monsters.

[dragonfly]

[Froderik]

media attention is great, but it can distract from the source of the abuse

. . . brainwashing is the issue

:tup:

[none-ya]

Brainwashing may be the issue, but the programs themselves are the source of the issue.
HENCE;
NO PROGRAMS = NO BRAINWASHING!

duh..........

[Froderik]

No chicken, no egg.

[wdtony]

No chicken, no egg.

Lizards lay eggs   (:

[Che Gookin]

Turtles lay eggs also.

Now if you are gonna try to roll like a paid goon/staff you have to have your shit organized. Do some research.. social engineering is the game we are trying to play.

Mind you.. take all this as you will.. I've never actually tried this.. but.. the foundation for it is well laid in the life and times of one Kevin Mitnick.

Seriously, download his book.

The little shit scammed everyone for years. He wasn't some genius level hacker.. he was an excellent bullshit artist.

If you are going to imitate a program you need the basics of it first. Call them up.. find out a few of the buzzwords.

3 springs.. restraints are called SAMA Satori Alternative to Managing aggression.. what staffer wouldn't know the full name of their restraint system?

Believe me they would.

Find out the key details.. like director names.. etc.

You don't need everything.. just enough to make your story sound believable.

This is what I'd do... I'd call as a parent first.. Act all scared.. ask some questions..

Get the program director's name. Ask for information on their restraint system.. tell them you heard about some kid dying in a restraint and you want to google their system's name to see how safe it is. Get every specific fact you can out of them.

And then go prowling for a bar...

In smaller towns it'll be easier... but larger towns.. dunno what to tell you.. maybe more social engineering? Pretend you are part of the all valley karaoke competition or something and invite their staff to it? Fook if I know..

Get creative.

What we are trying to do is to put them into the proper light that they really ought to be viewed. Booze loosens up their inhibitions. It gets them talking about all the dirty shit. We want them babbling away about that sort of thing. We want them bragging about their slammings and what not.

We want to put it on youtube, because we want people to see these staff/goons for the animals they are.

The more popularized we make this.. the more we hack away at the veneer of civility that surrounds them through their so called work..

The more we completely paint them in the worst possible light.

Now yall might wonder why I'd suggest such a thing. Because at some point you gotta give them an out. Their out is making the call. Their out is calling up the media. Either staff is willing to call in the media and police or the aren't.

There is no middle ground. There is no exceptions to be made for sick donkeys needing vet treatment.. no exceptions made because they have family.. It's a war.. it's us against them. Either they do the right thing or we go all out on them.

There is nothing other than either they make the fucking call or they get slammed over and over again.

Once they've come clean.. they are on the side of angels... well as close as you can get to that with the occasional survivor freakout, but you know what I mean. But hey, even I've come to accept that the occasional survivor meltdown is just part of the package, shit happens.

 :deal:  HEAL...  :seg:

Now, I'm former staff.. and I'm saying that's what I'd do to me and my colleagues. Don't play nice coz I can assure you all that the people I used to work with would stop at nothing to defend their livelihoods. I was slandered on this forum several times by programmies.

Smeared all over Facebook and so on and so forth.

All because I wouldn't shut up about what happened at 3 turds.

So my friends.. GO FORTH and put foot to balls. I implore you to put these animals in the worst possible light possible. MAKE THEM out for the shitbirds they are.

/ends rant.

[none-ya]

I think any number of us could done a more knowledgeable and infmormative interview on this subject. Hopefully he will stay on this.He seemed like he wasn't even hip the Anderson Cooper report on the christian girls school. And that was recent and on mainstream media to boot.

[wdtony]

now we just need a button camera and a good audio device..... then target a program's peer staff.

[none-ya]

Turtles lay eggs also.

Now if you are gonna try to roll like a paid goon/staff you have to have your shit organized. Do some research.. social engineering is the game we are trying to play.

Mind you.. take all this as you will.. I've never actually tried this.. but.. the foundation for it is well laid in the life and times of one Kevin Mitnick.

Seriously, download his book.

The little shit scammed everyone for years. He wasn't some genius level hacker.. he was an excellent bullshit artist.

If you are going to imitate a program you need the basics of it first. Call them up.. find out a few of the buzzwords.

3 springs.. restraints are called SAMA Satori Alternative to Managing aggression.. what staffer wouldn't know the full name of their restraint system?

Believe me they would.

Find out the key details.. like director names.. etc.

You don't need everything.. just enough to make your story sound believable.

This is what I'd do... I'd call as a parent first.. Act all scared.. ask some questions..

Get the program director's name. Ask for information on their restraint system.. tell them you heard about some kid dying in a restraint and you want to google their system's name to see how safe it is. Get every specific fact you can out of them.

And then go prowling for a bar...

In smaller towns it'll be easier... but larger towns.. dunno what to tell you.. maybe more social engineering? Pretend you are part of the all valley karaoke competition or something and invite their staff to it? Fook if I know..

Get creative.

What we are trying to do is to put them into the proper light that they really ought to be viewed. Booze loosens up their inhibitions. It gets them talking about all the dirty shit. We want them babbling away about that sort of thing. We want them bragging about their slammings and what not.

We want to put it on youtube, because we want people to see these staff/goons for the animals they are.

The more popularized we make this.. the more we hack away at the veneer of civility that surrounds them through their so called work..

The more we completely paint them in the worst possible light.

Now yall might wonder why I'd suggest such a thing. Because at some point you gotta give them an out. Their out is making the call. Their out is calling up the media. Either staff is willing to call in the media and police or the aren't.

There is no middle ground. There is no exceptions to be made for sick donkeys needing vet treatment.. no exceptions made because they have family.. It's a war.. it's us against them. Either they do the right thing or we go all out on them.

There is nothing other than either they make the fucking call or they get slammed over and over again.

Once they've come clean.. they are on the side of angels... well as close as you can get to that with the occasional survivor freakout, but you know what I mean. But hey, even I've come to accept that the occasional survivor meltdown is just part of the package, shit happens.

 :deal:  HEAL...  :seg:

Now, I'm former staff.. and I'm saying that's what I'd do to me and my colleagues. Don't play nice coz I can assure you all that the people I used to work with would stop at nothing to defend their livelihoods. I was slandered on this forum several times by programmies.

Smeared all over Facebook and so on and so forth.

All because I wouldn't shut up about what happened at 3 turds.

So my friends.. GO FORTH and put foot to balls. I implore you to put these animals in the worst possible light possible. MAKE THEM out for the shitbirds they are.

/ends rant.

So why havn't you done any of these things yourself?
Oh that's right,you live in fucking China. What if somebody follows your advice and winds up going to jail for harrasment or stalking? "It's ok,an ex staffer in China told me what to do."

yeah,that should work.............