General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
What is the economy anyway ??
starry-eyed pirate:
Yeah, and what I'm starting to think through now is that maybe it's not so much the idea of people having jobs that is the problem, because surely shit's gotta get done but the way the job becomes the person's very identity and takes over their lives, so that they are working 40 hours a week and being exploited and taxed by the federal government. And when you meet someone for the first time, one of the first things they usually want to know about you is how you make money. Perhaps such a question might indicate that the person asking seeks to classify the other as a commodity and not as a person.
I just think we could vastly improve our own circumstances if everyone could spend 20-30 hours a week supporting themselves directly and then maybe working 15-20 hours a week locally at the community science/medical center or the production warehouse, or the like, so the community could have the goods and services it required.
And the less money we involve in our lives the better for us all.
And let me ask a hypothetical question, if you please. Why pay anyone to do anything, really ??
It's actually quite unnecessary and only enables injustice to occur. If something needs done people should just work together and do it out of mutual benefit. I'm not sitting here holding my breath waiting for the world to realize their mistake though. I only wonder if anyone sees my point about money and the economy...
:poison: :peace:
namaste.
starry-eyed pirate:
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---Perhaps those folks in places like India and Indonesia, who are relieved to have established themselves in the western market economy are simply being pushed into it, and like some kid sitting on front row, the first week, are relieved to take the pressure off themselves when they sell out and begin to motivate and go along with the program, motivating and singing the required songs in order to be socially acceptable and attain some physical comfort.
--- End quote ---
Or maybe it's just the sold-out relief and the ego-driven happiness of the power of exploitation. The exploited becoming the exploiters...
Froderik:
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---Perhaps those folks in places like India and Indonesia, who are relieved to have established themselves in the western market economy are simply being pushed into it, and like some kid sitting on front row, the first week, are relieved to take the pressure off themselves when they sell out and begin to motivate and go along with the program, motivating and singing the required songs in order to be socially acceptable and attain some physical comfort.
--- End quote ---
Or maybe it's just the sold-out relief and the ego-driven happiness of the power of exploitation. The exploited becoming the exploiters...
--- End quote ---
If there's a hell below, we're all gonna go...
Froderik:
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---And when you meet someone for the first time, one of the first things they usually want to know about you is how you make money. Perhaps such a question might indicate that the person asking seeks to classify the other as a commodity and not as a person.
--- End quote ---
Aw, man! You said it. The social mores. And I personally avoid asking that question like the plague. Because I know about selling your soul to the devil for a paycheck. You're doing well if you do something you like to do for a living, and maybe get around the tax man a little bit to boot. Shit, man... I don't want to work for no goddam paycheck no more, no matter how big, and have stopped going that route (from there being perhaps less opportunity as well as from me making my own choice to do otherwise) for the time being, and hopefully for the rest of my life. But still if I don't pay income taxes I am technically breaking the law, and that (as you know damned well) is not right...but that is the way they've got it set up.
Goddammit I used to hate it when some schmuck at a social gathering would ask me that predictable question, "So, what do you do?"
"I breathe, eat, drink, shit, sleep, fuck and try to stay alive..... and yourself??"
Paul St. John:
My time is seriously limited, so I can probably only take on a few of these today, but I will take them in order, starting here. [/u]
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---[
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---quote="starry-eyed pirate"]Well...le's see...I don't know anyone who leads a just and moral life. If you drive a car, and import your food and other goods, like tools and clothes and furniture from halfway around the world you're not living justly.
--- End quote ---
That's some statement alright. Care to explain why? I would say that If halfway around the world goods are being produced by people willing to part with them at a better price, giving your business to them is the JUST thing to do. The person who would go this direction of trading with those across the world has a just mind, and yet at the same time, justice in the truest sense cannot be even applied to this situation, because who you choose to trade you with, and what things you choose to purchase, and do with your earned money is your business! That is justice.
--- End quote ---
So let me get this straight, cause I can't believe you really mean what you wrote here.
What you are telling me is that Justice has no place in peoples private business
What I wrote, is that justice does not pertain to whom you buy your goods from, as it is your choice. One of the primary functions of justice is to uphold and protect people's right to use and dispense of their own goods and earned wealth as they see fit. For example. I would disagree with a person who refuses to do business with others based on their ethnic background, but at the same time, no one has the right to force him/her to.
and that where there is money, there should not be justice
We can really save me a lot of time, if you actually read what I write. You d save your time as well, if it concerns you.
and yet somehow you are also telling me that Justice is concerned with getting the best price for goods or services,
Well, only, insofar as a person whose mentality is founded in the concept of justice, would only be concerned with these issues, rather any other arbitrary concern, such as whether or not someone is across the seas. (nationalism)
[/u]
regardless of the acidification of our oceans,
and the burning and clearing of the worlds rain forests, the degradation of air quality, or the toxification of the water table, the eradication of indigenous, sustainable cultures, and unique animal/plant species, etc. Is that what you mean to convey ?? I hope not.[/quote]
[i]Most of these things are WAY overstated by pseudo-scientists, and others who just do not know what they are talking ab out. As to the extent, to which there is some truth, progress always has issues along the way, and the only people who don t notice that are the people who do not do anything. We are always finding better ways to do things. It is very hard to be perfect all the time.. Of course, if you do absolutely nothing at all, yuo will make no mistakes, and it is very easy to critique those who do. the one specific thing I would actually like to address is about the sustainable, indigenous cultures. No one has killed them or anything, and it could be taken that way, the way you put it.
But all in all, I am not going to lie, I care more about people then about rain forests, oceans, or plant species. [/i]
Paul[/b][/quote]
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---In fact, if that is the case, then you are stealing the worlds health and robbing future generations of their chance to lead a good and healthy life.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry man.. Seriously, but you have so much to learn. It is hard to believe how little you understand about how things really work. You really should learn more. These ideas are so entirely incorrect. You aren't stealing the world's wealth.. LMAO! Quite the opposite, you are building their economies and helping them live a higher quality of life. Go to India, and ask those how we outsource to how grateful they are for the opportunity. They and their families, including extended are living longer, higher quality lives, then they ever could ve dreamed for in their youth.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I'm learning more all the time...the American economy expands by force. It's an imperial force. If you can't see that in Iraq you're just not looking. The vast majority of foreign countries host U.S military bases. The 5th phase, over glorified Haliburton employees are there to enforce the program on the newcomers. And domestically our corporately whored out governments policy is one of national brainwash on the youth. I was in $tr8 Inc for 2 years. The western market economy nurtures the culture of the ego in order to sustain itself.
What is a "culture of the ego"?
If you understand this, then you know how hard it is to be a saint in the city. The money cult appeals to the ego, and as always the easiest and most sure-fire way to manipulate anyone is through their ego.
That is the opposite of true. The easiest way to manipulate someone is by subverting the ego.. That is precisely what is done in Straights and similar programs.. They break down your ego. They try to convince you that your ego is false, so that you turn agianst it. Look up 'ego' in the dictionary, because it is possible that you and I are going on different definitions here.
Just because the p
eople in India are saying that they are happier then they were before the western economy stole it's way into their lives doesn't mean they aren't violating the rights of their neighbors, in order to achieve it...and when you say "building their economies"...the process you are really describing is the exploitation of the natural resources of some American slave colony, where ever they may be in the world. You don't get something for nothing in this world.
Bro, you are fucking crazy.. I mean, really. No one forced anything into them. they want it. They train for it, and give everything they got to get their positions. But you are right about one thing. They do not get it for nothing. They work very, very, hard, and compete for these positions.
Perhaps those folks in places like India and Indonesia, who are relieved to have established themselves in the western market economy are simply being pushed into it, and like some kid sitting on front row, the first week, are relieved to take the pressure off themselves when they sell out and begin to motivate and go along with the program, motivating and singing the required songs in order to be socially acceptable and attain some physical comfort.[/quote]
[i]Like I said, start learning some stuff. You have replaced thoughts with propaganda. You mentioned being a saint in a city. Something tells me, you do not spend much time in cities..
Paul[/i]
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