General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
What is the economy anyway ??
ajax13:
"The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society… dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values… this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behaviour… Persisting social crisis, the emergence of a charismatic personality, and the exploitation of mass media to obtain public confidence would be the stepping-stones in the piecemeal transformation of the United States into a highly controlled society… In addition, it may be possible – and tempting – to exploit for strategic political purposes the fruits of research on the brain and on human behaviour. – Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era, 1970"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=27188
starry-eyed pirate:
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---Ask all the 60 somethings that were teenagers during the summer of love ('67) That tried sharing,communal living,going back to the land and all. It's a utopian pipe dream. People are just naturally greedy. That's why the cult of money and sucess is such a natural draw.Even for the "do-gooders",the more you,have the more you can give away.But sometimes you just have to throw up the white flag during the "monopoly" game and redistribute the property and money or the game's
over.Think about what that would lead to in real life.........
or maybe not
--- End quote ---
This is true, and they weren t the only ones who tried.. many well-meaning groups of Americans have tried it.. A group of transcendentalists, whom I admire quite a bit for the most part tried it as well.. It didn t last very long though.
--- End quote ---
T's a shame, says I, that it didn't last or catch on.
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---In the end, trade is the fairest, best , most righteous way to do business.
--- End quote ---
Trade can be fair or unfair, depends on the traders, what I'm meanin to say is that if you're not supplyin your own food, directly from nature, harvesting your own organic crops to take you through the winter, etc. then you're relyin on and payin money to someone else to do that for you, which in turn keeps you runnin on the wheel of some overlord or another exploiter, so you can go to the Wal Mart or Wegmans or whatever, to buy your groceries from around the world. The same goes for everything else you spend money on. The same principle is at work through-out...the economy. I'm not against righteous trade between locals, and I'm not entirely against the use of money altogether. I'm against the exploitation of the planet by self serving folks who think they can just take a shit on people and money will grow. And now this indiscriminate class of folks seems to have the reins and is misguiding the world into headlong misery.
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---If some people want to live on farms, and make everything they use themselves, that is their choice.
--- End quote ---
Yes, if only it were that simple. Because once your cut off from the land you are ripe for the exploitation by the moneyed and the landed. And once the chains are on you, it will be a long time getting back home. Complacent property ownership allows vacant lots in the hood to lie fallow, when they should be made into small farms to get the people off welfare. See what I'm gettin at ??
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" --- But obviously, most do not or they would be doing it.. different groups of people specializing in different things, benefits everybody involved.
--- End quote ---
Justice is unconcerned with the wants of the people. Secondly, most folks have been so thoroughly socially conditioned by the schools and the media, etc., that they will never have the clarity of mind to know what they really want anyway. However I agree that there will always be a need for particular specialists of different sorts, though it is not always a benefit to everyone involved. Capitalism practically requires the exploitation of some unaware fellow.
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---The cool thing about a capitalist society, is that anyone who wishes to operate in a manner, partially, or completely free of capitalism is pretty much unfettered. They can do as they choose.
--- End quote ---
I disagree, but maybe my experience is extreme. Just sounds like a load of doublespeak to me.
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---In society's that are communistic or socialist, everybody has to play along with the same game. There are no options. And in order to maintain this type of society requires forceful governments that violate human rights according to American standards, and as well objective standards.
--- End quote ---
:roflmao:...O yeah, thank God, In America, we live in a free society, that is justly represented by a righteous democratic-republican government that never uses force to maintain itself... :rofl: :poison: ...I refute it thus: Straight Inc.
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---Paul St. John
--- End quote ---
Thanks for responding Paul.
starry-eyed pirate:
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---
What people need to know is how to grow their own food and nurture themselves and their families from the land and the sea in a sustainable way.
--- End quote ---
It is worth mentioning that there is nothing in the world stopping you from doing that right now, but instead yo9u choose to be on a computer made by people who had jobs.
Paul
--- End quote ---
This is an attack on me personally and has no bearing on my argument. My position is not that I live a moral or just life or that I'm not a hypocrite. It wouldn't matter if I were the president of IBM or the CEO of Google. Even the devil may speak the truth. ::evil::
Paul St. John:
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate" ---
What people need to know is how to grow their own food and nurture themselves and their families from the land and the sea in a sustainable way.
--- End quote ---
It is worth mentioning that there is nothing in the world stopping you from doing that right now, but instead yo9u choose to be on a computer made by people who had jobs.
Paul
--- End quote ---
This is an attack on me personally and has no bearing on my argument. My position is not that I live a moral or just life or that I'm not a hypocrite. It wouldn't matter if I were the president of IBM or the CEO of Google. Even the devil may speak the truth. ::evil::
--- End quote ---
heh.. No.. Not an attack on you personally.. And I didn t mean to be rude cutting in, in my honest opinion, the idea such as yours are lacking a true perspective, and yet they are very prevalent, and in again, in my opinon, they are not only one of the biggest problems with our country, but whether or not these idea flourish, I think has a lot to do with teh future of our country, and resulatantly, the planet as a whole.
But just to be clear, before we go any further-
Is it your position, that you are in fact a hypocrite, who lives an immoral , unjust life?- just so we can get that out of the way right off the bat.
--- Quote --- Even the devil may speak the truth.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps, if there were a devil, that would be the case, but either way, we have yet to establish that you are speaking the truth. My stance is that what you are speaking is utter nonsence
Paul
Paul St. John:
--- Quote from: "Horatio" ---
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---Ask all the 60 somethings that were teenagers during the summer of love ('67) That tried sharing,communal living,going back to the land and all. It's a utopian pipe dream. People are just naturally greedy. That's why the cult of money and sucess is such a natural draw.Even for the "do-gooders",the more you,have the more you can give away.But sometimes you just have to throw up the white flag during the "monopoly" game and redistribute the property and money or the game's
over.Think about what that would lead to in real life.........
or maybe not
--- End quote ---
This is true, and they weren t the only ones who tried.. many well-meaning groups of Americans have tried it.. A group of transcendentalists, whom I admire quite a bit for the most part tried it as well.. It didn t last very long though.
In the end, trade is the fairest, best , most righteous way to do business.
If some people want to live on farms, and make everything they use themselves, that is their choice. But obviously, most do not or they would be doing it.. different groups of people specializing in different things, benefits everybody involved.
The cool thing about a capitalist society, is that anyone who wishes to operate in a manner, partially, or completely free of capitalism is pretty much unfettered. They can do as they choose.
In society's that are communistic or socialist, everybody has to play along with the same game. There are no options. And in order to maintain this type of society requires forceful governments that violate human rights according to American standards, and as well objective standards.
Paul St. John
--- End quote ---
Paul I grew up in a small town (actually it was a tri-town) we had a Regional H.S. made up of those three towns. There were 7 families that provided jobs for this county. Russos had a large chicken farm and processing plant, Holbertons had the produce, Hensons had the dairy and meats plus hogs, Cares had the timber and hay, Perraults had the potatoes, beans, tomatoes and peppers, the Lewis's owned the Drygood store and the Wrights owned the American Motors dealership. The orginal AT&T was coming through with the cross Atlantic phone lines, we still had textiles miles and sod growing was also beginning to take hold.
My name is John Wright (from facebook and these were my descendants).
I am talking about Washington County in Southern Rhode Island. The school is called Chariho. Native American name. Cha= Charlestown, ri= Richmond and ho= Hopkinton, Cha-ri-ho. We had a volunteer Ambulance and Firemen dept. Police were the State Police
We existed and subsisted because of each other, we enjoyed life and the Profits we made were enough. Capitalism cruelty had not yet come into our lives. But when it finally did it wiped out what I had known as a child in maybe two years.
But the thing is that capitalism only came into your lives, if you invited it in. Again, you are not forced to play.. Most likely many of these families saw incentives in embracing capitalism, and that is the reason that they invited in. Now, most change does come with some negative thngs as well.. Certainly traditions die.. but the fact of the matter is, that even if people did not like that, they still considered it an overall benefit to embrace capitalism, or they wouldn t have done it. Also, the argument could be made, that yours and the other families had been practicing capitalism all along, but as things get bigger, there are always more opportunity for the good guys, but the bad guys as well.. Computers, I think are used for many great things.. but they are also used for bad things.. Shall we all be deprieved of PCs, because of the reality of viruses, identity theft, online fraud, internet bullying, and internet predators?
My point was these were all Americans that were happy with their idea of "PROFIT". They were not greedy to the point of injuring others just to make a buck.
This is what I believe in- eexactly as you state above, and that is the principle behind capitalism, when it is parcticed properly. the problem is taht many things get blamed on capitalism, for which, it is not the cause.
From 1974-1976 the Tyson Foods, Guidas dairy, Stop and Shop Foods, The EPA and many greedy politicians (who didn't even live in Washinton County) totally wiped off the face of the earth all 7 families accomplishments they had created over maybe 100 years.
The politicians and big business made it so we were dependent upon them. This is the point of suburbia with the food stores, Home depots, WallMarts and Malls. They pass ordnances in these sub-divisions so you can't even have a garden that will produce substance for a family.
That is seriously fucked up.. and I am truly unhappy to hear that.. that, in my view is pure evil, and causes unnecessary pain to people who do not deserve it, but again, this is not capitalism... and also under any other economic system, this is the norm.. Most of the time, when you find problems with capitalism, you find government intervention.
We (the average citizen) are not benefiting from the World Trade Ass. or even are own trade here in America. Living in America is like Vegas and/or Wall Street it is all a bet and the cards are stacked against you. Middle class America is once again at a very bad disadvantage, we are loosing are clout. Take away the middle class (make us marginal) and you have a third world country, haves and the have-nots.
Whether or not that happens is up to us.
Gov't intentionally leaves us out of the conversation (remember 2008 when you found out about the historic collapse, did you feel like WTF, I did) Bankers/Banks walked away with cash, AIG, Investment Corps and Car manufacturers. They marketed and traded our homes like they place bets on the crap table. Our fucking homes (our private lives) they targeted a certain group of people and exploited them.
The government had NO right to do any of this.. but again, this goes against the principles of capitalism
They have taken ours jobs to other countries so they could make more money, they take our jobs here and give them away to others so they can make more money. Then they say we won't do the jobs or we won't pay the extra cost if they use Americans. This is called propaganda. Say it long enough and people will be conditioned to believe it.
Personally, I don't disagree with outsourcing. They were never "our" jobs to begin with.
Have you looked a the price of sneakers and jeans of late, furniture ect....all these are made else where. $145.00 for a pair of Nike sneakers made in indo-china it cost NIKE a few dollars to make and ship back here.
Two other factors to take into account are inflation, which, is again caused by anti-capitalistic actions taken by the government, and the supply/demand dynamic. People do not have to buy Nikes at that price. they could shop at Payless and teh price of Nikes would drop. They choose not to.. this is in the hands of the "consumer"
This is not capitalism this is called wholesale pillaging. There are so many more examples.
There was a time when America made 90% of everything we consumed and we were doing just fine until Wall St. got greedy. !901, 1929, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's, 2010's.
What we need is another Theodore Roosevelt.
--- End quote ---
Well, we definitly disagree on theTeddy Roosevelt-reference.. he sewed a lot of the seeds that led to today's problems..
I, too, would like to see America produce more. But it is worth mentioning, that the individual standard of living is far higher then in all these countries where most of the goods we purchased are prouced... Kinda interesting, ain't it?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version