Where did "the game" come from ?

[heretik]

startin to figure something out here,about where the biggest damage got done to me. the other night i watched the entire cedu documentary, and it dawned on me....even though I was in straight not cedu.

   The whole IDEA that we ARE our behavior, like when somebody tells you what a piece of shit you are ,for doing something they disliked. Is seriously damaging, and has really led me down a fucked up path.Ah yes the root of self loathing . Its funny,the worst thing men do to themselves,imho is when so much of our identity,self esteem and self opinion is based mostly on what we do. Like how we say bob the plumber, or because i failed at something, im a failure. Theres gotta be some other less damaging way of looking at it. But THE GAME, raps, profeets....or what ever the nom du jour is...It got ingrained in me that I am my behaviour. Now im stuck with the daunting task of figuring out a way past it.

Can you tell me please the name of this documentary (CEDU) and where I can find it?? I guess I could "google" it. This is easier.

[heretik]

Very Kool....thanks Gate.

[Inculcated]

…Where did "the game" come from ?...

Not sure. That is not sure that it can be traced to any singular line of progression because it seems to me to be a convergence of different elements that became what was called The Game. Until I find something more compelling, I’m going to mostly blame Dr. Harry Tiebout.

Personally, I think Synanon's "The Game" was based in part on the TC-oriented confrontative group therapy practiced in an increasing number of U.S. prisons since shortly after World War II. Dedereich was an ex-con, was he not?

One has to wonder at the convenience of placing blame of such coercive excess on the Communist North Koreans, in the 1950s, when the North Koreans were certainly not the first to practice such diabolical methodology. This was something the U.S. government was quite aware of.

True that.

Here is some info, a few sites that helped me out. Synanon. I believe the origins came from his relations with Dr. Dan Casriel and his own genius. Chuck was a extremely intelligent man. He just managed to never get the help he needed to tame his demons.
Now, where did Dr. Casriel get his opinions and methods is explained better in the wiki site below. Inculcated and Setko are educated more so on Dr.Casriel.

Uh, thanks, but I’m sure that relatively Awake may well be your better go to for Dr. Dan Casriel info.  Certainly having read only three of Dr. Casriel’s books would hardly qualify me as having anything more than a tummy ache to think of them and some insight into the topics of them and into the author, but I am quite certain that whatever influence Dr. Casriel brought to his explorations of Synanon was well after the Game was on. http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Synanon

[heretik]

…Where did "the game" come from ?...

Not sure. That is not sure that it can be traced to any singular line of progression because it seems to me to be a convergence of different elements that became what was called The Game. Until I find something more compelling, I’m going to mostly blame Dr. Harry Tiebout.

Personally, I think Synanon's "The Game" was based in part on the TC-oriented confrontative group therapy practiced in an increasing number of U.S. prisons since shortly after World War II. Dedereich was an ex-con, was he not?

One has to wonder at the convenience of placing blame of such coercive excess on the Communist North Koreans, in the 1950s, when the North Koreans were certainly not the first to practice such diabolical methodology. This was something the U.S. government was quite aware of.

True that.

Here is some info, a few sites that helped me out. Synanon. I believe the origins came from his relations with Dr. Dan Casriel and his own genius. Chuck was a extremely intelligent man. He just managed to never get the help he needed to tame his demons.
Now, where did Dr. Casriel get his opinions and methods is explained better in the wiki site below. Inculcated and Setko are educated more so on Dr.Casriel.

Uh, thanks, but I’m sure that relatively Awake may well be your better go to for Dr. Dan Casriel info.  Certainly having read only three of Dr. Casriel’s books would hardly qualify me as having anything more than a tummy ache to think of them and some insight into the topics of them and into the author, but I am quite certain that whatever influence Dr. Casriel brought to his explorations of Synanon was well after the Game was on. http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Synanon

In this excerpt above coming out of Casriel's book I would have to say late '61 or early '62 was not that late on the scene for Chuck's "game". Dr. Casriel even helped fiance the advancement of Synanon on the east coast. I thought Synanaon had actually started very late 50's early 60's.

[ajax13]

The confessions that were part of the show trials in the Soviet Union in the thirties incorporated some of the coercion techniques used by the PRK and PRC interrogators during the Korean War.  These phenomena do not appear linked to the development of the procedures used in Synanon and the entities that demonstrably grew from Synanon.  I would be curiousto know how similar the "house parties" held by Frank Buchman were to the later manifestations of "The Game".  

"An important part of the Buchmanite meetings was confession and "sharing." There were two distinctly different kinds of sharing:
    1) sharing as confession, and
    2) sharing for witness.
Sharing as confession was supposed to unburden one of the sins which Buchmanites declared kept people separated from God, while sharing for witness was intended to convince new prospects to join the Group and "surrender to God". That is, sharing for witness was just a lot of testimonials that were intended to convince newcomers that Buchmanism is the answer.

The Buchmanites were really big on public confession, and were always openly confessing everything they had ever done to meeting rooms full of strangers. They entertained their audiences with wild, humorous, and sometimes licentious stories of their sins, misadventures and escapades before they got changed into moral people by Frank Buchman and his followers. And converts would "share" the message that their lives had been much improved by following Frank's "Guidance" and "principles"."
 http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-rroot090.html

[dragonfly]

[starry-eyed pirate]

In $tr8 1st and 2nd phasers played "the game"(raps) 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.  You could only reach the higher phases by "internalizing" the game.  Here's the weird thing, I'm just now, and by that I mean, within the last little while, realizin that I been playin "the game" in some form or another, with the world and everyone who's come my way since I was 17 years old, for the last 25 years...

I'm not so sure people will get the implications...

[starry-eyed pirate]

startin to figure something out here,about where the biggest damage got done to me. the other night i watched the entire cedu documentary, and it dawned on me....even though I was in straight not cedu.

   The whole IDEA that we ARE our behavior, like when somebody tells you what a piece of shit you are ,for doing something they disliked. Is seriously damaging, and has really led me down a fucked up path.Ah yes the root of self loathing . Its funny,the worst thing men do to themselves,imho is when so much of our identity,self esteem and self opinion is based mostly on what we do. Like how we say bob the plumber, or because i failed at something, im a failure. Theres gotta be some other less damaging way of looking at it. But THE GAME, raps, profeets....or what ever the nom du jour is...It got ingrained in me that I am my behaviour. Now im stuck with the daunting task of figuring out a way past it.

Yeah,you got it!...slavery through mental attachment.

[Awake]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the name ‘the game’ was inspired by Game Theory and it’s classically referred to game The Prisoner’s Dilemma.

...
GAME THEORY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

‘Game theory is a branch of applied mathematics that is used in the social sciences, most notably in economics, as well as in biology (particularly evolutionary biology and ecology), engineering, political science, international relations, computer science, social psychology, and philosophy. Game theory attempts to mathematically capture behavior in strategic situations, or games, in which an individual's success in making choices depends on the choices of others (Myerson, 1991).’

‘Von Neumann's work in game theory culminated in the 1944 book Theory of Games and Economic Behavior by von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern. This foundational work contains the method for finding mutually consistent solutions for two-person zero-sum games. During this time period, work on game theory was primarily focused on cooperative game theory, which analyzes optimal strategies for groups of individuals, presuming that they can enforce agreements between them about proper strategies.’

‘In 1950, the first discussion of the prisoner's dilemma appeared, and an experiment was undertaken on this game at the RAND corporation.’

...

THE PRISONER’S DILEMMA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

‘The prisoner's dilemma is a fundamental problem in game theory that demonstrates why two people might not cooperate even if it is in both their best interests to do so. It was originally framed by Merrill Flood and Melvin Dresher working at RAND in 1950. Albert W. Tucker formalized the game with prison sentence payoffs and gave it the "prisoner's dilemma" name (Poundstone, 1992).

A classic example of the prisoner's dilemma (PD) is presented as follows:

“Two suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated the prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies for the prosecution against the other (defects) and the other remains silent (cooperates), the defector goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full 10-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only six months in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a five-year sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act?”

If we assume that each player cares only about minimizing his or her own time in jail, then the prisoner's dilemma forms a non-zero-sum game in which two players may each either cooperate with or defect from (betray) the other player. In this game, as in most game theory, the only concern of each individual player (prisoner) is maximizing his or her own payoff, without any concern for the other player's payoff.’…

…

Anyways there’s quite a lot on the subject, but that’s my hunch, as far as where the name derived from.  As far as the application of this setting goes I believe that many influences had been developing for some time previously, and I doubt Deiderich himself played much part in the overall creation of ‘the game’. I think he was important simply because he was running the perfect model of the type of organization, Synanon, in which to experiment with group dynamics in ways unfeasible in other areas of society. Synanon was relatively miniscule when compared to many larger interests concerned with sociology, social psychology, which were developing exponentially prior to Synanon. My guess is Deiderich did not find inspiration, inspiration found him.

[starry-eyed pirate]

...Synanon is AA on ACID....

...Yeah, and we're Synanon on acid.  Synanonacid!  ($tr8-(a)-(n)on-acid really... :rocker:  :eek:  :beat:  :cheers: ... :roflmao:  :rofl:  :suicide: ... ::OMG:: ... :guesswho: ... :wall: ,  :dose: ,  :smashcomp: ... :ftard: ...  :poison:  :peace: )


It's a pretty weird feelin, finally seeing the chain of influence, like this.  I mean, in this way...kind a a milestone of understanding.

Man, the way Chuck Dederiech has influenced my life...

I'd have some questions for him but he's dead now anyway.

[starry-eyed pirate]

Jazz great Joe Pass credits synanon for saving his life. He recorded this tune for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ttER_M1QdY

Yeah, I checked it out.  Never heard of him before but, thank you.   :tup:  

I watched a bunch a his you tube stuff.  Man, he takes you with him.  It's like watching and listening to him play you can get a sense of the game in there.  In his way.  And when it shows the audience I wonder how many of those people were synanon members, as they wipe away their tears when he's done.  And strangely enough I feel like I can relate.  

Anyway... ::OMG::  :rofl:

[starry-eyed pirate]

Thankyou Inculcated.  I red the article on confrontational therapy.  Thankyou Ursus.

[seamus]

though I was never in cedu, i kinda think staff there would have been spending a lot of time out in the weeds lookin for ol shamey,an not findin shit.......If str8 was like ,so open.....we wouldnt be havin this conversation...how come people didnt just haul ass? you know ..di di mow,am-scray, were these kids citified, not able to function in the weeds? Were there students at cedu who just fuckin vanished, It seems to defy logic almost.

[Froderik]

I grew up in the city and was for the most part citified, but i always did like wandering in whatever wooded areas i could find in and around the urban environs i inhabited.. When I split str8, I went down the nearest slope to the railroad tracks from a bridge that went over them..I ran, and then walked along in the afternoon sun of November for some miles until i reached a gas station far enough away, where i hitched a ride to Arlington, VA...from there i walked into DC..so being citified wasn't always a deterrent in my case (although being far enough away from the city I was more familiar with was).

[starry-eyed pirate]

Seamus, this is off-topic, but I appreciate your use of the Vietnamese term, "di di mow", not sure that's the correct spelling, but I heard that a lot when I was a kid.  My parents took in a whole family Vietnamese refugees after the war ended, so I had 4 Vietnamese siblings for about a year(1976), and their mother was always telling them to "hurry up" or maybe it means "run" as your post implied.  I always thought it meant "hurry up" though.  That's the only Vietnamese phrase I recall.  Where'd you pick it up ?