Author Topic: Independent Study Shows Success.  (Read 9334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RobertBruce

  • Posts: 4290
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #195 on: December 24, 2010, 01:34:33 PM »
That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Since you like analogies so much I'll give you one I've given you before.

Let's say next Veterans Day you approach a group of Veitnam vets and say, "Hey guys, man that war was hell. I wasn't there, but I saw 'Platoon' like 5 times so I know exactly what it was like. " These guys are either going to laugh at you or beat the crap out of you.

You have no idea what it was like for us because first and foremost you were never there, but two your opinion is biased by the fact that you earn your living off of this industry. Of course you're going to look at it in a postive light.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #196 on: December 24, 2010, 02:02:17 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote
I have experience with the TTI , it is just different than yours and more up to date

You have a limited outsiders experience that does not come close to our first hand experiences. Your information is by no means up to date or accurate.

seems we disagree on this.


So, what......you're saying that you spent a couple of years inside one of these hellholes?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #197 on: December 24, 2010, 02:37:41 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote
I have experience with the TTI , it is just different than yours and more up to date

You have a limited outsiders experience that does not come close to our first hand experiences. Your information is by no means up to date or accurate.

seems we disagree on this.


So, what......you're saying that you spent a couple of years inside one of these hellholes?

citation.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #198 on: January 06, 2011, 03:29:06 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Here's yet another thread on Behren's Study, fwiw:


Thats a great link/find, Ursus.  I wish there was a way to connect all of the discussions under one topic.  There were some great discussion in that thread.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #199 on: January 13, 2011, 10:37:53 AM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"

When you provide info, if you want it to be taken seriously, it must be independent information.

So that brings us full circle, Gonzo.  Below there is an independent writer who wrote a book about spending 14 months in a program.  I also provided a link to an independent study which was overseen by a thrid party to insure there was no conflict of interest.  They are from the state of Washington (I hope that state is acceptable to you)

Here are a couple of links for you:

1)  This was a study conducted surveying 1,000 parents and graduates of a few programs.  The study was overseen by WIRB (The Western Institutional Review Board) and they also approved the study.  The results were presented at the Annual meeting of the APA American Psychological Association.

Link

2)  There was a writer who spent 14 months (I thought it was 16 months) inside a program and then wrote a book about his findings

Link

A Pulitzer Prize-winning writer untangles the mysteries of the
teenage mind as he witnesses troubled kids transformed by fourteen
months at a school that offers therapy for adolescents in
crisis.
Millions of parents struggle to grasp what goes on in their kids' heads,
on their computers, and among their friends. As an education correspondent
for U.S. News & World Report, David L. Marcus
wrestled with similar
questions while reporting on the welter of pressures American teenagers
now face – a resurgent drug culture, proliferating temptations and threats
on-line, skyrocketing suicide rates (three times higher than in the
1960s).
To find answers, Marcus gained unfettered access to students, staff,
and parents at the Academy at Swift River
in the hills of western
Massachusetts. The kids at Swift River had already ventured down a
number of perilous paths all parents fear their own children might
take – drug use, violence, theft, internet addictions, eating disorders,
promiscuity. Known for combining intensive academics, a wilderness
program and group therapy, the school helps troubled teenagers emotional
health.




...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #200 on: January 13, 2011, 10:51:27 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Guest3"

Quote
Do you have money invested there?
No, I have no investments in the industry at all.


...

Guest3, Whooter is not being honest about his financial ties to RCS.  Some time ago Whooter admitted he was a fiduciary in a deal between Aspen Ed and HLA..

Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
When is this supposed to take place?

Well the  announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.



...




How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?


I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved,  this could be misconstrued as Tipping

He wouldn't say which one he was working for at the time, but it is speculated he was working for Aspen.  When he couldn't close the deal for Aspen to buy HLA, they fired him.  Now he spends his days promoting their competition, RCS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline Dr Fucktard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1069
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #201 on: January 13, 2011, 11:04:39 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote
I have experience with the TTI , it is just different than yours and more up to date

You have a limited outsiders experience that does not come close to our first hand experiences. Your information is by no means up to date or accurate.

seems we disagree on this.


So, what......you're saying that you spent a couple of years inside one of these hellholes?

Whooter was a client at SIBS for a year or two...

He made staff trainee, if memory serves.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Truckin'

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #202 on: February 06, 2011, 09:39:15 PM »
I don't know if anyone else has actually read this study? It seems like a legit statistical analysis. Interesting to me for a couple a reasons. One is this finding:  "Adolescents were also surveyed for their appraisal of their communication quality, compliance, and relationship quality. Unlike their parents, they rated themselves as “adequate” on most items at admission. By discharge the adolescents appraised their communication, compliance, and relationships as “good.”

I'm guessing that the kids interviewed weren't subjected to stuff that some on this forum have been, or they wouldn't report good outcomes - so check out the RTF's the participants went to.

I have no opinion on the reporter's story, since he may or may not have observed the real facts of the place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Marketing Hooplah 101
« Reply #203 on: February 06, 2011, 11:04:48 PM »
Quote from: "Truckin'"
I don't know if anyone else has actually read this study? It seems like a legit statistical analysis. Interesting to me for a couple a reasons. One is this finding:  "Adolescents were also surveyed for their appraisal of their communication quality, compliance, and relationship quality. Unlike their parents, they rated themselves as “adequate” on most items at admission. By discharge the adolescents appraised their communication, compliance, and relationships as “good.”

I'm guessing that the kids interviewed weren't subjected to stuff that some on this forum have been, or they wouldn't report good outcomes - so check out the RTF's the participants went to.

I have no opinion on the reporter's story, since he may or may not have observed the real facts of the place.
Nice try, but if ya actually read the study with the care needed to glean a quote for yer point, you would have noticed that both authors are decidedly female, namely Ellen Behrens, Ph.D., and Kristin Satterfield, B.S.

That noted, let us continue...

  • This "study," or survey, was performed on kids from nine Aspen programs, and the primary author is Ellen Behrens. Conflict of interest, perchance? Moreover, these programs are not inherently different from one another to any significant degree.
  • The "study" assayed only two time points: at admission, and at discharge. In other words, the kids were basically still under the influence of the program. What would YOU say, when handed such an exit survey, if your answers could possibly result in continued time at this program or another?
  • There was no control group. Moreover, there was no independent professional assessment of the parent and adolescent self-reports (e.g., by a psych professional not affiliated with the program). Moreover, the fact that kids generally grow up to a certain degree during said time period anyway, program or no program, was not factored into analysis of results.
  • There is absolutely NO follow up data, which would certainly give a far more accurate reflection of the alleged "benefit" of these program experiences.
  • This "study" is not peer-reviewed. It was presented at an APA meeting, and that was the end of its academic journey. Did ya ever stop to reflect on ... WHY? With all the expense entailed, you'd think Aspen would have at least tried to publish such a "plum," eh? Perhaps they did try. :D

What is actually being measured here is simply the kid's and his or her parents' perception of change between start of program and the conclusion of program, and while still on the program's turf. No more. And no less.

In fact, when all is said and done, the results say more about the folks who set up and conducted the so-called assay, then they do 'bout the subjects whose opinions were being collected.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Truckin'

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #204 on: February 07, 2011, 12:35:18 AM »
Nice try (??) but the "he" I was referring to was the reporter that went to live at a treatment facility (the second link posted by Whooter.)

But back to the study... I don't know who Ellen Behrens is, but this evaluation was clearly conducted and written by a professional evaluator. (I recognize this from my own graduate studies in program evaluation and analysis.)

A comparison group is not necessary for this kind of impact evaluation. The research design and methods described are still solid - it is a non-experimental design evaluation with a pre-test and post-test. I agree that an additional later post-discharge analysis would be ideal, and so did the authors. Here is what the authors said:

"Future research in private residential treatment needs to address the question of post-discharge maintenance of treatment gains. The residential treatment literature indicates that a significant portion of adolescents who function well at discharge subsequently experience a decline when transferred to a lower level-of-care (Curry, 1991; Epstein, 2004; Hair, 2005). The second phase of this study will explore that issue using the private residential data of the present study as the point of comparison.

Private residential treatment research would also benefit from process-focused studies that
attempt to attribute change to specific components of treatment. Private residential care is so
multi-facetted and complex that it is less an intervention and more a “tapestry” of interventions
(Fahlberg, 1990). As such, attempts to tie program components to outcomes would have
profound clinical implications.

Whether in process or outcome studies, future research in private residential treatment should pay
attention to the role of three factors: the “trajectory of change”, family involvement, and
aftercare. "

I am guessing that later post-discharge surveys were not done because they are difficult to obtain. By the way, regarding the pre-tests post-tests here, credible researchers would administer the tests themselves and if that is not possible, would ensure that the integrity of the measures were maintained. I.e. nobody would be holding a stick (literally or figuratively) over the participants heads. And by the way, in this study the kids and their parents both reported improvement.

Are you sure this study was not peer-reviewed? In any case, it was certainly vetted if it was presented for 50 minutes at the APA convention.

I just think the study is interesting and would like to see more of this kind of thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline seamus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 824
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #205 on: February 07, 2011, 01:10:44 AM »
this thread needs to be put down, in  the same spirit as an old, sickly dog needs put down, it doesnt take some phd to see what is what here, what is that welldeservrd success? "rioting" and a pussy riot it was, what ? pissing off the facility's adjoining comunity? how is this bullshit success? Sorry I dont say this often, but this thread has provrd its point,and thusly, imho, out lived its purpose.(like nobody saw this coming) think twice,act once. The who is done here. next........
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
It\'d be sad if it wernt so funny,It\'d be funny if it wernt so sad

Offline seamus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 824
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #206 on: February 07, 2011, 01:18:05 AM »
Love me, hate me ,or maybe see the truth I speak...... I dont care. If  my program couldnt shut me up, your best bet is a big(178grain or up) bullet between the eyes. This shit needs to end(not fornits,the Idea that fuckers can keep doing this shit to kids) If I gotta do whatever,then try me.seriously ,charge me and lets see where it goes. cunts.I got big balls and not much to loose thse days.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
It\'d be sad if it wernt so funny,It\'d be funny if it wernt so sad

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #207 on: February 07, 2011, 10:54:41 AM »
Quote from: "Truckin'"
Nice try (??) but the "he" I was referring to was the reporter that went to live at a treatment facility (the second link posted by Whooter.)
Sorry, I misread part of your post last night. I interpreted your last sentence as referring to the same subject matter as the rest of your post, namely, the so-called "independent study" of the topic title. I had NO idea you were addressing Whooter's previous post, point by point (or something akin to that).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Truckin'

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #208 on: February 07, 2011, 12:10:22 PM »
@Ursus - No problem!
@ seamus - not sure what you are referring to, but I just read the original post and a few (not all) of the responses yesterday. Thought I would put in my 2 cents since this is an open forum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Independent Study Shows Success.
« Reply #209 on: February 07, 2011, 03:29:08 PM »
:guesswho: :jerry:  :jerry:

It's trying to establish a new identity.  That didn't take long.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arthur Schopenhauer