Author Topic: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad  (Read 8694 times)

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Offline Abir

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2011, 04:58:23 AM »
Hi Ursus,
Sorry for the late response, as to your questions:
1. Lotan (their full name is "Derech Lotan") is a very serious and legitimate Israeli non profit organization. The main difference between them and us is that they normally run short wilderness programs (a week or so) for israeli school kids not necessarily teens at risk.
As you know our program is much longer (38 days) and offered to teenagers at risk mainly in the US and Canada.
2. As to the cost mentioned in an earlier post and the suggestion to "leave the money in the US" I can say that I am sure that in the US there are also good programs. Our program is very good and different and I am sure that parents and kids can tell the difference and hopefully choose us.
Have a good weekend,
Shaul
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Offline seamus

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2011, 06:03:55 AM »
What can I do about getting some of the 6 to 8 million dollars back that my brain dead government gives your country every day? Why are the zionists in your country so reminiscint of nazis? and mostly why do the non zionist isrealis tolerate such horse shit? Inquiring minds want to know. :timeout:
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It\'d be sad if it wernt so funny,It\'d be funny if it wernt so sad

Offline Truckin'

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2011, 12:24:15 PM »
What hateful and odious remarks, seamus! Sounds like this person is trying to exchange information, and you have to go all anti-Israeli on him. Shame on you!
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Offline try another castle

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how to take a land war personally
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2011, 03:00:02 AM »
Quote from: "Truckin'"
What hateful and odious remarks, seamus! Sounds like this person is trying to exchange information, and you have to go all anti-Israeli on him. Shame on you!

Unfortunately, that is the pervasive misconception. The "Palestinians" are the poor, downtrodden, and the Israelis are the brutal, faceless oppressors who do not deserve to have a country. Most of these beliefs have been perpetuated by the media...

...strange that people seem to think the Jews control said media.

I wonder how many of the throngs of uninformed have actually been to Israel, or read something about it outside of wikipedia. I have not been myself, but I am eager to take R there for our honeymoon. Everyone in my family says that it is incredible.

The Israelis created an oasis out of a shitty region, which was populated by mostly shitty, hateful people. (Who all attacked simultaneously the minute the state was formed. Somehow, this is apparently Israel's fault.) It also bears mentioning that you actually need to posses a separate passport booklet for the Israel stamp, because it is far too risky to have it in your regular booklet when traveling abroad. Imagine, getting killed over a stamp. Obviously, the killers are the rational ones, and those who have ever visited Israel had it coming to them, right?  ::)

Apparently, the concept of being a Zionist is now considered to be something disgraceful. (I believe it was the muslims and the neo-nazis who spearheaded that campaign.) I, however, feel no disgrace when I state that Israel has a right to exist, and I never will. If someone were to sneer at me and call me a Zionist, they would merely be stating a fact.

The world would lose something truly special were Israel to fall to the terrorists.  Then it would be just like every other shithole in that region. Dont we have enough of those?

Quote
I am Israel

I am Israel-- I was born millennia before I was renamed Palestine by the conquering Romans, before Muhammad took his first breath, and before the U.N. decided to split me in half and turn my Eastern lands into Jordan. My people, the Jews, maintained communities here for three thousand years— that is until the Arabs decided to massacre those Jews without reason in 1920 and 1929. Hundreds of civilians were murdered, most of them women and children. Meanwhile, their brother Arab states massacred and exiled 1 million Arabic Jews from their lands-- erasing their history.

I am Israel-- I have been attacked four times by Arab armies since I declared independence in 1948. I told the Arabs who lived on my land that they were welcome to stay, but they were told by the neighboring states to leave temporarily while the Jews were "taken care of". I have been offering a message of peace since the day I was born, but my enemies answered only in bullets. I am a survivor--I won every war. Realizing they could not defeat me with arms, my enemies have turned to lies.

I am Israel-- Time and time again my name is smeared. Though each of these lies is eventually disproven, my enemies continue to claim I am committing genocide. Is giving educational opportunities to Palestinian Arabs "genocide"? 20% of the students in Haifa University are Arabs. If I am an aggressor who exiled all the Arabs in 1948, why are 20% of my citizens Arabs with full rights? Where did they magically appear from? Why did I give up the entire Sinai and the Gaza strip, uprooting my own people from their homes, only for the hope of peace?

I am Israel-- In combat, I risk the lives of my teenage sons and daughters in order to minimize civilian Palestinian casualties. I make every attempt to target only fighters, often putting my own soldiers in harms way. In wartime, I drop leaflets on areas to be attacked, warning civilians to evacuate. Has any other army in the history of mankind done this for its enemy? I waited 8 years to stop Hamas from its daily rocket attacks on my kindergardens and my hospitals. I am patient, but my patience is not infinite.

I am Israel-- I have created Intel and cell phone technology, medicine for devastating diseases, and I lead the world in scientific publications per capita. I send humanitarian missions to developing countries, including Muslim countries. I have absorbed hundreds of Muslim refugees who faced genocide in Darfur-- refugees no Muslim state would take.

I am Israel-- I am one of the smallest countries in the world, and probably the most stubborn—I refuse to give up hope for peace. My friends support me not because of any lobby, but because they see the truth-- I am the heart of the Middle East, and the hope for its future. My prophet said, "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation," and I will try, and try, and TRY until those words are true.

Because I am Israel.
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Offline Dethgurl

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2011, 08:38:36 AM »
Great Video...although I prefer this version : http://http://youtu.be/ZprVPKi-W6s
 :notworthy:
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"The people, when they have been unchecked, have been as unjust, tyrannical, brutal, barbarous and cruel as any king or senate possessed of uncontrollable power.
The majority has eternally, and without one exception, usurped over the rights of the minority." ~John Adams

Offline Truckin'

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2011, 04:03:56 PM »
Was has this thread devolved into a discussion about the pros and cons of Israelis and Zionists? The guy who started the thread was just informing about his wilderness program. I'm guessing he won't want to visit this forum again !
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2011, 11:30:41 PM »
Quote from: "Truckin'"
Was has this thread devolved into a discussion about the pros and cons of Israelis and Zionists? The guy who started the thread was just informing about his wilderness program. I'm guessing he won't want to visit this forum again !


lol. Actually, I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to put it in "Israel and the weather". I was reading both of them, read seamus' response here, and thought I was still in that one.


This is what happens when I try to surf the web on a work night. zzzzzzz too tired.

I would move it, but it wouldn't make any sense there, either, since I responded to something written in here.


Anyway, don't mind me. It was an accidental high-jacking. Sry.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2011, 10:28:09 AM »
Quote from: "Truckin'"
Was has this thread devolved into a discussion about the pros and cons of Israelis and Zionists? The guy who started the thread was just informing about his wilderness program. I'm guessing he won't want to visit this forum again !
Ahhh... perhaps this is a minor point, but... I believe you suffer a misperception. This thread was started by Oscar.

Shaul Abir, one of the founders of Darckenu Israel, did not make his fornits debut 'till well into the third page.



Jes sayin' ...  ;)
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2011, 11:55:15 AM »
Quote from: "Abir"
Lotan (their full name is "Derech Lotan") is a very serious and legitimate Israeli non profit organization. The main difference between them and us is that they normally run short wilderness programs (a week or so) for israeli school kids not necessarily teens at risk.
Herein implied is a profound difference in "therapeutic" approach, dontcha think?

Quote from: "Abir"
As you know our program is much longer (38 days) and offered to teenagers at risk mainly in the US and Canada.
I am curious as to why your targeted market is primarily the United States and Canada... and not your local Israeli "troubled youth." From your perspective, do you think that there's that much more market potential in the North American continent?
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Offline Abir

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2011, 01:46:36 AM »
Hi all,
I will try to answer your doubts:
1. There are four main points that we differ from "Lotan Way":
    a. The length of our program, ours is 38 days, Lotan usually runs short programs ( a week or so)
    b. The target population, we target teens from north america, Lotan focuses mainly on the Israeli kids
    c. Lotan is a Non profit Organization "living" mainly from contributions and donations. We are a private organization. We have
       decided that we do not want to depend on donations.
    d. We offer wilderness PROGRAMS and not THERAPY (although we have clinical psychologists on our staff) because our overall concept
       is diffrent (as presented in our site)

Have a good weeekend.
Shaul
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2011, 10:49:56 AM »
Quote from: "Abir"
The target population, we target teens from north america, Lotan focuses mainly on the Israeli kids
Yes, but... with all due respect, this doesn't answer my question; namely, from my previous post:
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "Abir"
    As you know our program is much longer (38 days) and offered to teenagers at risk mainly in the US and Canada.
    I am curious as to why your targeted market is primarily the United States and Canada... and not your local Israeli "troubled youth." From your perspective, do you think that there's that much more market potential in the North American continent?
    [/list]
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    Offline Ursus

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    Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
    « Reply #71 on: February 17, 2011, 10:57:30 AM »
    Quote from: "Abir"
    We offer wilderness PROGRAMS and not THERAPY (although we have clinical psychologists on our staff)
    If you don't offer, or practice, "therapy" ... why do you have psychologists on staff? From the sound of it, they're not just there on a consulting basis. They're included among the participating staff for each of your wilderness "walks," am I correct?
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    Offline Truckin'

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    Re: Darckenu Israel - new wilderness program abroad
    « Reply #72 on: February 18, 2011, 03:05:50 PM »
    My bad, Ursus, but like you said, it is a minor point... :)
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    Offline Ursus

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    on marketing startegies: selling "not therapy" as "therapy"
    « Reply #73 on: February 18, 2011, 10:43:06 PM »
    Quote from: "Abir"
    We offer wilderness PROGRAMS and not THERAPY (although we have clinical psychologists on our staff)
    Continuing a bit more along this same line of discussion, I find it most curious that — despite your above claim that you do not provide therapy — someone in your organization appears to have seen fit to tack on a link to Darckenau Israel in a Wikipedia article on Wilderness THERAPY last November 7th.*

    So... which is it? "Therapy?" Or "NOT therapy?"

    Moreover, even though this wiki article supposedly has nothing to do with any specific wilderness program in particular, just with the general concept of wilderness "therapy" and a brief history ... SOMEhow, SOMEone apparently believes that Darkenau Israel epitomizes the genre.

    This despite never having actually practiced the art, as the commercially recognized entity of "Darckenau Israel," with behaviorally challenged kids in tow. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Speaking of which, aren't we coming up to the launch date for this ship's maiden voyage?



    ----------------------------
    * Interesting marketing strategy. Not sure how well it reflects on your organization though, as many, if not most, folk tend to view this type of insertion as an unwarranted piece of self-promotion or gratuitous advertising. Namely, S-P-A-M.
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    Offline Ursus

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    questions still remaining to be answered
    « Reply #74 on: February 21, 2011, 11:06:13 AM »
    Although I had assumed that Shaul was quite entrenched in the actual launch of Darkenau Israel's first ever wilderness "walk," it turns out that said departure date has apparently been postponed to March 10th (previously scheduled for Feb.19th, if I recall correctly, although I could be wrong). See also: Darckenu Israel - Trails' schedules.

    So... I'm hoping  that he'll be able to check back and answer some still unanswered questions, namely:

    • Why is Darkenau's target market U.S. and Canadian kids, rather than local Israeli kids?
    • Why, if Darkenau Israel claims its program does not offer therapy, is it marketed as being precisely such via attempts to hijack a Wikipedia article on Wilderness THERAPY? What's with those psychologists on staff, who are accompanying the kids on their wilderness walks?
    • Gatekeeper's questions, starting with what kind of guarantee do you offer regarding the children's safety?
    • "Why should parents send their children to your program if it doesn't offer therapy?" and
    • "Who keeps the child's passport while he/she is in your program?"
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